Family battling Children’s Hospital to bring teen home for Christmas

[jjenny]

Oversimplification. Funds = all better, no. the point is that "ma DCF has documented problems!", while true, is irrelevant since the audited problems have nothing to do with what's going on in Justina's case.

And understaffing I would guess is a problem in many, many states. Unfortunately there are more abuse/neglect cases than can reasonably be kept up with.



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Well, maybe if they kept up with actual abuse and neglect cases...
Where was the imminent danger to the child when MA DCF took Justina into custody?
Parents were going to take her out of BCH and back into Tufts.
Does that classify as imminent danger to the child?

 

[Gardenlady]

Well, as long as they tried. Bottom line, your DCF will never have enough money if they spend millions on one child, who lives out of state, and shouldn't be under their jurisdiction being a resident of another state.
Therefore, I wouldn't give them a penny, if it was up to me.

So because CT doesn't want to deal with it, Justina should be abandoned to the wolves? Assume for a minute that this is a case where there has been documented abuse - are you saying that just because her care costs a lot, MA DCF should abandon her because it is expensive, and her own state won't step up?

I'm glad that isn't what is happening. Keeping children safe should be the priority, no matter how much it costs.

 

[Donjeta]

Well, maybe if they kept up with actual abuse and neglect cases...
Where was the imminent danger to the child when MA DCF took Justina into custody?
Parents were going to take her out of BCH and back into Tufts.
Does that classify as imminent danger to the child?

Basically it's the parents' version of the events and it isn't necessarily the whole truth.

 

[Gardenlady]

If facilities refuse to take her as a patient, what do you want MA to do? Should we roll out some tanks and send them over the border to CT and force them lol? So yes, they tried. I hardly think the facilities refusing to take her in (due to threats, circuses, etc) are the fault of Massachusetts.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh really. Lets say you take your child to the hospital for some serious physical reasons your child is experiencing. The doctors there quickly diagnose your child with "somatoform." Even though there is no test for somatoform. is a diagnosis of exclusion. All the other medical reasons need to be ruled out first.

Then they demand you treat your child fro somatoform, and not for whatever else your child was previously diagnosed with, or they will contact DCF and take your child way. And you can not get another opinion. That shouldn't scare all parents?

I take my child to the doctors because I am not a doctor.

If I had one hospital telling me my child had mito and another suspects somatoform....I'd be willing to listen. If it's somatoform, my child could be 100% cured. I'd be thrilled and supportive.


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[Linda7NJ]

"In addition, a single blood or urine lab test with normal results does not rule out a mitochondrial disease. This is true for organic acids, lactic acid, carnitine analysis and amino acid analysis. Even muscle biopsies are not 100% accurate."



http://www.umdf.org/site/c.8qKOJ0MvF7LUG/b.7934633/k.E5DC/Getting_a_Diagnosis.htm

Do you honestly believe that only one blood/urine test was done?






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[Linda7NJ]

If by parenting plan you mean "treatment plan" parents refused to sign, yes, they released it.

I can't seem to find it. Do you have a link?


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[CHICANA]

"IMO it appears that BCH doctors and other staff have done nothing to allow Justina's education to continue"

please cite all the evidence you are aware of to prove this point.

this is a very often repeated accusation, and if true it certainly would be a big deal, so it would be nice to have all of the evidence there is to support it in one place.

all i am aware of is that the parents claim she has received no education while hospitalized. but there must be more than this to support it that i have missed.

I didn't know IMO it appears had to be backed up ? Is there anything to prove she's receiving an education ? Ohh.. that's right, the state doesn't have to prove anything, and since they're the government we should just believe them and assume they're doing the right thing because they have such a wonderful track record. :twocents:

 

[Donjeta]

There's very little proof about anything right now but it seems to be possible to get an education at the Wayside:


http://www.waysideyouth.org/wayside-academy/

I think usually the institutions that take in youth who have been taken into DCF custody do try to make a point of giving them an education because it gives them structure and something constructive to do and a chance in life. And if that's not enough, because kids who have something to do tend to cause fewer problems than the kids who are bored out of their minds.

 

[liljim]

I didn't know IMO it appears had to be backed up ? Is there anything to prove she's receiving an education ? Ohh.. that's right, the state doesn't have to prove anything, and since they're the government we should just believe them and assume they're doing the right thing because they have such a wonderful track record. :twocents:

yes, it does need to be backed up. are you of the opinion that evidence is not required for people to make informed decisions?

im not sure who you think is saying we should just blindly trust the government, it certainly isnt me. this case has been in court many times, hopefully that issue was raised, that would be the appropriate venue for it.

its entirely possible that she has not received any substantial education since she was hospitalized, depending on the specific circumstances of her situation. but since BCH has many long term patients and they have well established policies regarding education, and they are well aware it is a requirement and make it a focal point, i would assume they made an honest effort to do so in this case.

so yes, before i am going to believe this claim i would need to see some of the evidence to support it. i guess im just crazy like that...

 

[liljim]

Do you honestly believe that only one blood/urine test was done?


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of course, because any evidence that we have not seen must be even more damning for children's and so they are hiding it and wont talk to dr. phil about it...

nothing could possibly exist that would explain any of this in a way that isnt criminal on childrens hospital's part...

they kidnap kids and conduct secret research on them to punish parents that ask for second opinions. and then they sit back and rake in the money...

:blushing:

 

[Gardenlady]

I didn't know IMO it appears had to be backed up ? Is there anything to prove she's receiving an education ? Ohh.. that's right, the state doesn't have to prove anything, and since they're the government we should just believe them and assume they're doing the right thing because they have such a wonderful track record. :twocents:

They do have to prove it - not to us, but to a judge. Which they have done more than once.

 

[jjenny]

I take my child to the doctors because I am not a doctor.

If I had one hospital telling me my child had mito and another suspects somatoform....I'd be willing to listen. If it's somatoform, my child could be 100% cured. I'd be thrilled and supportive.


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Somatoform can be 100 % cured? O'key, why hasn't Justina been cured then?

 

[jjenny]

They do have to prove it - not to us, but to a judge. Which they have done more than once.

So, there is no way a judge can be wrong or make a bad decision?

 

[wendiesan]

I can't seem to find it. Do you have a link?


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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lletier-kidnapped-doctors-use-guinea-pig.html

 

[jjenny]

There's very little proof about anything right now but it seems to be possible to get an education at the Wayside:


http://www.waysideyouth.org/wayside-academy/

I think usually the institutions that take in youth who have been taken into DCF custody do try to make a point of giving them an education because it gives them structure and something constructive to do and a chance in life. And if that's not enough, because kids who have something to do tend to cause fewer problems than the kids who are bored out of their minds.

Justina wasn't causing any problems to anyone to begin with.
She is sick, not delinquent.

 

[jjenny]

So because CT doesn't want to deal with it, Justina should be abandoned to the wolves? Assume for a minute that this is a case where there has been documented abuse - are you saying that just because her care costs a lot, MA DCF should abandon her because it is expensive, and her own state won't step up?

I'm glad that isn't what is happening. Keeping children safe should be the priority, no matter how much it costs.

Parents were going to take her out of BCH and take her into Tufts for treatment.
So, who are the wolves?
When was she ever unsafe?
So, why did MA DCF spend millions to keep her in custody? I think that is a very fair question to ask, especially considering DCF supposedly needs more funds to do its work. MA can throw a whole lot of money at DCF. If DCF spends millions on one child who isn't a resident of MA, because parents prefer Tuft's diagnosis to that of BCH (my personal opinion based on what has been reported and not on some unknown secret evidence that only DCF knows), how is any amount of money going to be enough for DCF?

 

[Gardenlady]

So, there is no way a judge can be wrong or make a bad decision?

Not what I said. I was answering the claim that Mass "doesn't have to prove anything". Agree with the judge's decision or not, that claim is factually untrue.

Further, id just like to point out that, for your scenario to be true, we have to believe that not just the judge, but:

Doctor(s?) at Tufts
Multiple docs at Children's Hospital
MA DCF
CT DCF
justina's current facility

are all wrong on more than one occasion, or involved in some outrageous conspiracy to kidnap this girl and do medical experiments on her.

I'm sorry but on the basis of "keep it simple" alone, it's far less logical to believe all that than to accept that we only know half the story (as filtered through the parents and various agitating groups), and to guess that maybe, just maybe, there is a good reason for all of the above entities to have found something questionable going on.

 

[Linda7NJ]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lletier-kidnapped-doctors-use-guinea-pig.html

Thank you for trying, but when I click the link ...I get an error code.


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[i.b.nora]

Thank you for trying, but when I click the link ...I get an error code.

Try this?:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lletier-kidnapped-doctors-use-guinea-pig.html

Its an article from last November and is teeming with errors, imo.