Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[LinasK]

I wonder if she has shown signs of decomposition.

An unanswered question:
How will the family see Jahi regularly if she is out-of-state?

She's not decomposing, she's not a corpse. Her body is alive, her heart is beating.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I think they use a type of rectal catheter that is a closed containment system to evacuate to colon in the ICU for bedridden incontinent patients.
I'm sure someone with experience can explain it better.
Moo

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We'll that makes sense. Thank you for replying.

So it's not a colostomy bag. That bypasses damaged bowels.


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[LinasK]

She is THEIR daughter and they have every right to be with her. Every right.
No matter what "trouble" they caused.

JMO



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Wow! I never thought I'd find myself on the same side of an issue as you, Sonya, and Charlie!!

 

[shana]

(snipped to address}
An unanswered question:
How will the family see Jahi regularly if she is out-of-state?

Perhaps they will use funds from the donation site, or add a plea for more. Travis Alexander's family received financial support for its costs to attend the trial.

~jmo~

 

[Cubby]

Interesting wording, "Claims she is not dead". Claims she is not dead or claims she is not brain dead. Did the doctor say "Yes, her heart is still beating" or did the doctor find signs that suggested she was not brain dead?

If it's the latter, why hasn't he come forward and presented his findings? Why are we hearing hearsay from the family rather than statements from this mystery doctor?

I think we can be certain if this unnamed pediatrician stated Jahi was not brain dead the family would have said so.

 

[LinasK]

I respectfully disagree. This situation is causing a LOT of hurt, pain and grief to many people. Not least Jahi's siblings and the families of other patients at the hospital. It could even be deadly for another child if the ICU bed is needed and is unavailable because Jahi is there.

Then Children's needs to agree to let the family move her out of there!

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I worked in a nursing home a few years back, yeah I changed and cleaned colostomy bags on patients that where not in comas but where not here so to speak. I also fed them the liquid supplement (nepro). So yeah they have bowel movements.

Ok. You are missing my point.
If her bowels are working properly (not damaged) there would be no need for a colostomy bag. Perhaps you are thinking about the catheter thing that gngr-snapped explained to me unthread.


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[jjenny]

Still is, she's not a corpse, her body is alive.

Because it's on a ventillator. Ventillator is pumping oxygen into it.

 

[jjenny]

She's not decomposing, she's not a corpse. Her body is alive, her heart is beating.

Her heart is beating because of a machine pumping oxygen into it. You can remove the heart from the body, attache it to a pump and pefuse it with oxygenated solution. It will beat.
So what does that prove exactly?
Turn of the machine and see if it's still beats.

 

[Piekun]

The 20 something page court document (linked up thread) has a lot of details.


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I read the entire thing. Perhaps I missed something, but the only mention I saw was this line:

"Also, new facts were found
by another examining doctor that indicates that Jahi is not suffering
irreversible brain damage"

Is there anywhere in the document where the doctor is named and the specifics are shown?

 

[jjenny]

Ok. You are missing my point.
If her bowels are working properly (not damaged) there would be no need for a colostomy bag. Perhaps you are thinking about the catheter thing that gngr-snapped explained to me unthread.


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She is likely in a diaper.

 

[sherbetjello]

I really feel for Children's Hospital. Their Facebook is getting hammered, and I have seen comments saying "I was going to take my child to CHO, but I don't trust these murderers."

This is affecting so many people.

It's almost like no one cares about the lives of other children, and their families, the doctors and nurses working, at this hospital.

 

[shana]

I think they use a type of rectal catheter that is a closed containment system to evacuate to colon in the ICU for bedridden incontinent patients.
I'm sure someone with experience can explain it better.
Moo

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Is there any peristalsis in a pt who has been declared brain-dead?

~jmo~

 

[al66pine]

Color me confused.
I thought mom's original legal action was filedin CA st ct, as ref'ed below.
Now uncle Omari said family filed a new complaint in fed ct, seeking to overturn/modify the st ct injunction.

Why not file a motion in same st ct, asking same judge to extend injunction?

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/12/30/family-california-teen-declared-brain-dead-says-ny-facility-is-last-last-hope/
"The order, issued by Alameda County Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo, nullifies a deadline set for Monday that would have removed Jahi McMath from life support, extending the order until Jan. 7.
"In essence, the court orders the respondent (Oakland Children's Hospital) to maintain the 'status quo,'" Grillo's order said.
Earlier Monday, Jahi McMath's uncle, Omari Sealey, said the family had filed a new complaint in federal court requesting an injunction against Grillo's deadline set last week that would have allowed the hospital to remove Jahi from life support at 5 p.m. PST Monday."
BBM

 

[Minette]

OK, obviously I could not stay away after all. And I am...appalled. This poor child, her poor body, that familial denial could go to such an extent. To me (meaning this is MY opinion, only) this has passed through sad, to tragic, to macabre and now we are entering into the realm of....I don't even have the word. Vivisection would be for experimental procedures performed on a living body, but Jahi isn't living (according to the state of California, the hospital, the original court, the independent doctor, the coroner, etc.) so what do you call it when futile procedures are performed on a human body artificially forced to maintain heartbeat and respiration by machines?

Maybe it isn't vivisection, exactly. But to me, this is a travesty, a violation of this poor dead child.

And I know many people won't give weight to this, but what of the caretakers? They know this child is medically and legally dead, and they are still going to try to give her excellent care and comfort to the best of their abilities. It must be mentally & emotionally anguishing. At least, it would be for me.

I understand pain, I understand denial, I understand familial anguish for a child lost too young--when I was a kid, a cousin of mine was trapped under a piece of farm equipment on his family's farm and horribly burned/crushed, his father tried to pull him out and was in turn badly injured but my cousin could not survive. My uncle could never come to terms with his son's death and inability to save him and eventually took his own life. It was an accident, and my uncle couldn't have done anything, and yet he let his grief destroy him, and in turn destroyed most of his family. You have to accept tragedy and let it pass through you without taking up a permanent residence, or you are not honoring the life you are grieving, or life itself. At least that is what I believe.

 

[LinasK]

No there is not. The hospital has said that they will cooperate with plans to transfer Jahi. They would not callously turn off the vent if they had proof that a transfer was in the works. They have already changed their policies to accommodate this family and they are begging for the information they need to facilitate the transfer. It's the family that are not cooperating by providing the information.

You don't know that they haven't informed Children's of the facility where they want her to go. Doesn't mean they made it up, only that they don't want the publicity.

 

[fruity]

Then Children's needs to agree to let the family move her out of there!

They already did!!

 

[gngr~snap]

We'll that makes sense. Thank you for replying.

So it's not a colostomy bag. That bypasses damaged bowels.


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The way I understand it, it is a catheter placed inside the rectum/colon to collect stool.
Liquid in liquid out?
It prevents infection from the skin breaking down.
In other words the patients are not in diapers.
My mother in law who is a colostomy patient, used to be an ET. Enterostimal therapist.
She told me it is also used on quadraplegics. If they existed when I was in nursing school back in the 80's,none of my patients had them.
The bedsores caused in older incontinent patients that I treated were awful.
The nursing homes they came from didn't care for them adequately.
Moo

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[Kimberlyd125]

She is likely in a diaper.

That's what I thought too.
I didn't know about the catheter thingy.

But surely she doesn't have a colostomy bag. That was my point.


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[fruity]

You don't know that they haven't informed Children's of the facility where they want her to go. Doesn't mean they made it up, only that they don't want the publicity.

Yes I do know. A statement was made about it.