Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #2

[MyBelle]

Hospital didnt reverse anything, the court refused the familys request to require the hospital to allow it.....And where do they plan on putting her, the place they keep metioning isnt ready for patients, especially deceased ones.....Family and their lawyer need to stop misleading the public......

fyi: The hospital has reversed itself regarding allowing of an outside physician to perform the procedures. Reported by the media.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mc...-find-surgeons-to-operate-on-brain-dead-teen/

 

[meme4]

Hi guys, I have been following this tragic case on the tv and only just saw you guys were posting on it. I haven't read everything so you may have discussed this but what about the very few handful that have come back from brain death such as Zack Dunlap? I know a couple of others where it just turns out that the tests were done wrong or whatever and they weren't truly brain dead like doctors had thought but Zack by all accounts was. No activity/blood flow, declared dead and everything ...... There have been many medical people advising on this thread so was just curious your thoughts. This case is a hard one and I tend to lean toward letting her go in peace, but I am a hopeful creature and people such as Zack is why. :/

http://www.notdeadyet.org/2008/03/brain-dead-man-comes-alive-miracle.html

From what I have read, they did not do all the test on him they have done on her.....Also it has been confirmed by 6 drs , she is in fact brain dead.....

 

[Deleted member 110058]

https://twitter.com/Cristina_Rendon/status/418507245068906498/photo/1

Notice his body language.
Hands in pockets.
We train clients to never do this when addressing the media during a crisis.
It gives perception of a lack of confidence.
Wonder if they actually have transport lined up??

 

[Herat]

I think moving her out of state takes her out of the jurisdiction of the Cali coroner's office. If the Cali coroner doesn't have the body, he can't issue a death certificate. I think the media is now realizing that is what is going on because they are now not just reporting but are emphasizing the hospital's reversal of decisions.

JMO

A lawyer for Children's Hospital Oakland said Tuesday that it is unwilling to allow an outside doctor to fit Jahi McMath with the breathing and feeding tubes that the family has requested.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mc...-find-surgeons-to-operate-on-brain-dead-teen/

So you think Dolan is trying to get Jahi flown out of state to a different state with different brain death laws so they can get a bigger compensation from the lawsuit?

Won't the malpractice lawsuit be conducted under California jurisdiction anyway, as that's where the purported malpractice took place, regardless of the state in which her heart stops beating?

 

[Isabelle]

According to court documents cited by the Associated Press on Newsday, the center located at 12 Platinum Court in Medford has offered to take Jahi McMath, who was declared brain dead and is on life support following a tonsil surgery.

http://medford-ny.patch.com/groups/...-dead-may-come-to-medford-facility-medford-ny

http://hyperbaricmedicalsolutions.com/

The article seems to indicate CHO is delaying transport by wanting additional information from the receiving facility. Odd.

 

[MyBelle]

https://twitter.com/Cristina_Rendon/status/418507245068906498/photo/1



https://twitter.com/LauraAnthony7/status/418504965548556289/photo/1

It's pretty clear the hospital wants her heart to stop beating and starving someone will achieve that goal in my opinion.

 

[meme4]

fyi: The hospital has reversed itself regarding allowing of an outside physician to perform the procedures. Reported by the media.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mc...-find-surgeons-to-operate-on-brain-dead-teen/

Really think you need to reread that , it plainly states the courts refused the parents request the necessary surgeries done...fyi

 

[Herat]

fyi: The hospital has reversed itself regarding allowing of an outside physician to perform the procedures. Reported by the media.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mc...-find-surgeons-to-operate-on-brain-dead-teen/

That actually makes more sense.

If they allowed an outside physician to perform the procedures, it means that they would set precedent in allowing a physican who was not on their staff, and possibly not properly credentialed, or even licensed in the state of California, to perform a procedure on a legally dead person.

That's a bad, bad precedent to start and completely undermines the intent of proper physician credentialing and governing body granting of priviledges. Lots of medico-legal issues entangled in that kind of precedent.

 

[MyBelle]

So you think Dolan is trying to get Jahi flown out of state to a different state with different brain death laws so they can get a bigger compensation from the lawsuit?

Won't the malpractice lawsuit be conducted under California jurisdiction anyway, as that's where the purported malpractice took place, regardless of the state in which her heart stops beating?

I think Dolan's goal is to get the child out the door from CHO.

A malpractice lawsuit is not the same as a wrongful death lawsuit.

 

[Isabelle]

We've been discussing it for a while now. This center right now only has an outpatient facility. Clearly someone who is brain dead and attached to a ventillator is not a good candidate for an outpatient therapy. They are building an inpatient facility but it's still under construction. This doesn't sound like a realistic option.

I am wondering if the outpatient facility as a facility inside a local hospital. We have many of those.

 

[Zuri]

And she probably is brain dead. I'm not qualified to make that determination. Are you?

I linked articles that said if she were truly brain dead her heart would have failed by now, despite being on a ventilator.

IIRC, someone posted either on this thread or the previous one, some really good articles on why/how the heart beats regardless of brain death. The vent and the Vasopressin are enabling the heart to continue beating. If you take away the Vasopressin, which is used to help with BP as well as kidney function, chances are Jahi would develop congestive heart failure.

Even if Jahi's heart were to stop, I have read nothing to indicate that she is a DNR. So she is a full code until either the family says otherwise, or despite CPR and resuscitation, her heart does not resume a normal rhythm. JMO

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I think moving her out of state takes her out of the jurisdiction of the Cali coroner's office. If the Cali coroner doesn't have the body, he can't issue a death certificate. I think the media is now realizing that is what is going on because they are now not just reporting but are emphasizing the hospital's reversal of decisions.

JMO

A lawyer for Children's Hospital Oakland said Tuesday that it is unwilling to allow an outside doctor to fit Jahi McMath with the breathing and feeding tubes that the family has requested.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mc...-find-surgeons-to-operate-on-brain-dead-teen/

They can take her to another hospital and do it but it doesn't appear that any hospital or doctor is willing to take a deceased person and perform an operation on them or it would have been done by now.

No one can force a physician or facility to risk loosing their credentials and providing care to thousands upon thousands of other living people because of a deceased person. She is by CA law deceased.

 

[Herat]

I am wondering if the outpatient facility as a facility inside a local hospital. We have many of those.

No. It is an old two-story house that is being remodeled. Someone upstream described it as a house Hitchcock would have used in a film, and that's a pretty apt description from the photos I saw.

There is no license for this facility that would allow it to accept any acute care, medical rehab care, nursing home care, surgical care, or any inpatient status care.

The premise that this facility is suitable is complete and utter fiction and I think the state of New York would probably get an injunction against the facility the minute she arrived.

 

[meme4]

The courts refused to make hospital to allow placement of feeding tubeand trach....They have no faculity to take her too, its under construction...where is she gonna stay till them and they have to be accredited, and a deceased person cant be starved........

 

[Lunar1121]

From what I have read, they did not do all the test on him they have done on her.....Also it has been confirmed by 6 drs , she is in fact brain dead.....

As I have no medical background I guess I just figured the scans and physical tests done on both were the same. It is scary how someone can be declared dead and then bam, right before organ harvesting, they aren't. I pray I am never in any of these situations! My husband's wish is to not be on life support unless he is truly bound to recover from whatever the incident is. He wouldn't want to be a vegetable either so I guess if he just had a feeding tube but no other life sustaining assistance, like Schiavo, then I would have to remove that. Ugh, sorry off topic, just sad to think about all around.

 

[Deleted member 110058]

That actually makes more sense.

If they allowed an outside physician to perform the procedures, it means that they would set precedent in allowing a physican who was not on their staff, and possibly not properly credentialed, or even licensed in the state of California, to perform a procedure on a legally dead person.

That's a bad, bad precedent to start and completely undermines the intent of proper physician credentialing and governing body granting of priviledges. Lots of medico-legal issues entangled in that kind of precedent.

Exactly Herat. According to my hubby (a neurologist), the courts will not allow this because any doc that does these procedures on a corpse will risk losing his/her medical lisence. It's simply illegal.

 

[MyBelle]

That actually makes more sense.

If they allowed an outside physician to perform the procedures, it means that they would set precedent in allowing a physican who was not on their staff, and possibly not properly credentialed, or even licensed in the state of California, to perform a procedure on a legally dead person.

That's a bad, bad precedent to start and completely undermines the intent of proper physician credentialing and governing body granting of priviledges. Lots of medico-legal issues entangled in that kind of precedent.

CHO is certainly presenting a view from an Ivory Tower. Instead of focusing on a bad precedent, I suggest they focus on what happened and fix their problems so that it doesn't happen again. That's how "bad precedents" are usually handled if one is sincere.

I believe parents who are considering having their children treated at CHO are less interested in medico-legal issues and more interested in how it is a child suffers a catastrophic outcome while in the ICU. But that's just me.

JMO

 

[Herding Cats]

I do have to ask about the proposed transport...

If Jahi has been declared legally dead, and there are some very strict requirements when transporting a dead body (eg either embalmed or in a sealed metal container), how does the family propose to get around those laws?

I haven't heard any discussion on that, so I'm wondering. Especially since the court has also declared her legally dead, and not just the 6 (7?) doctors who have examined her.

I will continue reading, but I'm having a very hard time with this whole tragedy. A very hard time. I'm praying for everyone that God's Will be done, whatever that is.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[CCmakes3]

A lawyer for Children's Hospital Oakland said Tuesday that it is unwilling to allow an outside doctor to fit Jahi McMath with the breathing and feeding tubes that the family has requested.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jahi-mc...-find-surgeons-to-operate-on-brain-dead-teen/

JMO but the way the media is saying "fit her with feeding and breathing tubes" makes it seem like these are not surgical procedures. I work with children who have/have had these procedures and never once have i heard either family or medical personell refer to it as "fitting" the child with a tube. They are making it sound like it's as simple as trying on a pair of shoes, and in doing so seem to be implying that the hospital is extra evil for not doing or allowing these supposedly simple procedures. Just seems like an attempt to increase sensationalism and sympathy for the family, but maybe I'm all wet. JMO. Perhaps other medical professionals can weigh in on this terminology.

 

[MyBelle]

Exactly Herat. According to my hubby (a neurologist), the courts will not allow this because any doc that does these procedures on a corpse will risk losing his/her medical lisence. It's simply illegal.

When has a doctor who has removed organs from a corpse ever lost his license or been arrested?

Until I see a link, I'll believe this is a totally fabricated myth created by CHO.

JMO