Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[BetteDavisEyes]

Thank you so much for correcting me by adding the information on blood flow!

Your contributions have been very valuable in assisting to help educate me, on some of these issues surrounding this complex situation.

The legal, ethical and medical aspects of this situation have kept me gripped to this case.

I am so glad to have such great, knowledgeable posters and one place where all this information can be compiled for analysis.

I, too, appreciate the expertise of our "resident" medical professionals. Given this information, how can Jahi's family continue to want this youngster to spend any more time in this condition? There is little quality of life in Jahi's current situation, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I hope that the family comes to this realization before the clock runs out on the court ordered delay in the removal of the ventilator. G-d willing, Jahi will pass from this life on her own so that the removal from life support won't be necessary. lease:

 

[seattlechiquita]

Hi friends. I was praying this would all be over by now. I was wrong. Sigh.

 

[Zuri]

I, too, appreciate the expertise of our "resident" medical professionals. Given this information, how can Jahi's family continue to want this youngster to spend any more time in this condition? There is little quality of life in Jahi's current situation, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I hope that the family comes to this realization before the clock runs out on the court ordered delay in the removal of the ventilator. G-d willing, Jahi will pass from this life on her own so that the removal from life support won't be necessary. lease:

ITA. There is no quality of life to be had. JMO

 

[seattlechiquita]

ITA. There is no quality of life to be had. JMO

Yup. There is no life to add quality to.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Insertion of a feeding tube and a trach can be defined as "life saving measures". Ethically, morally, medically, legally, I doubt any physician would perform these on a brain dead patient with no chance of recovery. A court cannot force a physician to perform these operations. According to Mr. Dolan's own blog, Jahi has experienced fluctuations in BP and heart rate. Despite court wranglings and a war of words, Jahi may have the final word after all. JMV

Thank you! I just want to use your post as a jumping off point.

I do believe that her heart will give out, or a determination may be made by the courts for the ventilator to be removed. I hesitate to have faith in the court systems because of the way the lawyers can tie these things up. I don't see her being moved from CHO, but I may end up having to eat those words.

"If" her heart does cease to function, it is in the best interest of the hospital that there is a ongoing investigation into this by the CA Dept. of Public Heath. Their investigation, will help the hospital in the court proceedings, to show that they followed protocol.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Thank you! I just want to use your post as a jumping off point.

I do believe that her heart will give out, or a determination may be made by the courts for the ventilator to be removed. I hesitate to have faith in the court systems because of the way the lawyers can tie these things up. I don't see her being moved from CHO, but I may end up having to eat those words.

"If" her heart does cease to function, it is in the best interest of the hospital that there is a ongoing investigation into this by the CA Dept. of Public Heath. Their investigation, will help the hospital in the court proceedings, to show that they followed protocol.

I concur with all your points. I do not believe the body will be moved out of CHO, but we could both be wrong. This is all so #@$@#%^% sad and infuriating.

 

[Karmady]

<snipped>

"Thick" is a new one on me Never heard it before.

It's actually pretty common. A very popular song by Nelly was the first time I heard the phrase "thicky, thicky thick girl"

from the urban dictionary:

Thick
A woman with a perfect body, filled-in in places that are, by nature, designed to attract the opposite sex, such as the thighs, the hips, the breasts, and the most lovely part of all, the booty

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thick

 

[Isabelle]

Would like any professionals to chime in regarding complete brain death and lack of function of the Thalamus and Hypothalamus as regards feedback mechanisms. Thanks

 

[Zuri]

Thank you! I just want to use your post as a jumping off point.

I do believe that her heart will give out, or a determination may be made by the courts for the ventilator to be removed. I hesitate to have faith in the court systems because of the way the lawyers can tie these things up. I don't see her being moved from CHO, but I may end up having to eat those words.

"If" her heart does cease to function, it is in the best interest of the hospital that there is a ongoing investigation into this by the CA Dept. of Public Heath. Their investigation, will help the hospital in the court proceedings, to show that they followed protocol.

IMO, the court system should never have been involved at all. I don't know how one can look at the irrefutable facts of her medical status and wish to prolong it. I admire faith. In this case, I don't know how much is about faith and how much is about denial.

 

[kytty]

I have not read every post on the new thread so if I apologize in advance if this has been discussed. Jahi has been declared legally deceased and CHO is requiring the consent of the coroner to move her. The family may not legally be allowed under CA health code laws to take her home since under the law she is considered a corpse.

I think all sides share fault here, especially the fault of making this into a sideshow and having it deteriorate to the point where it has become about anything other than Jahi.

And although Mr. Dolan's blog entry was surely intended to elicit public sympathy, it makes me extremely uncomfortable as a parent if the family was indeed cleared and then barred by a barricade and security from being with Jahi when CHO was due to turn the vent off due to the expiration of the initial TRO on December 30th. I don't care what the situation was, it NEVER should have gotten to that point.

 

[Steft50]

It's actually pretty common. A very popular song by Nelly was the first time I heard the phrase "thicky, thicky thick girl"

from the urban dictionary:

Thick
A woman with a perfect body, filled-in in places that are, by nature, designed to attract the opposite sex, such as the thighs, the hips, the breasts, and the most lovely part of all, the booty

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thick

Thanks! I had only heard it being used to describe someone as "slow in thought/thinking" or not real smart. What can I say, I watch to many british shows/films.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

My thoughts on what will happen if Jahi's heart does cease to function while at CHO:

CHO will be accused of not providing nutrition and that will be their vocal point for why Jahi's heart stopped. They will be accused of "killing" her by not providing nutrition, even though she is legally already deceased.

"If" CHO does remove the vent, then they will also be accused of killing her.

This all plays on the heart strings of the public that are not informed. The attorney and family are already using these words, in preparation for the above events that I have mentioned.

Even though the attorney can "try", these actions won't "fly" in the future court proceedings. They will only fly with a particular portion of the public.

 

[Leilei]

I think it's time their pastor makes another statement. It's still my opinion he holds the key to the little girl's peace. I believe the mother is not competent to make these decisions on her own. It may be due to either a personal mental issue pre-existing or as a result of this trauma.

Regardless it's my opinion that her belief system is a result of a deeply ingrained cultural belief. That is why I fear ONLY her pastor can help her overcome these beliefs. It would make the community as a whole to take another look at how they view death, life after death, organ donation etc. This is probably a daunting task to imagine for the pastor. But, IMO could make this tragedy mean something.

Wasn't it her pastor who cancelled the fund raiser? I'd have to find the link, but I remember there was a fundraiser scheduled at the church, but it was cancelled, I think, the 29th? I thought that was the right thing to do, and I think you're right about his being key to helping this mother begin to accept and try to heal.

I agree with you, and other posters, who have said that this is now a mental health issue re: Jahi's mom, but I think it's due to the grief, and the trauma she has experienced during all of this. The people that are surrounding her and supporting her, in my opinion, are hurting more than helping. They are agreeing with her insistence that her daughter is alive, can be "fixed", when the reality is that no, she isn't, and no, she can't be. I find it very, very heartbreaking that nobody is willing to explain this to her, and if they have and were unsuccessful, are now just going along with it.

 

[Elley Mae]

I have not read every post on the new thread so if I apologize in advance if this has been discussed. Jahi has been declared legally deceased and CHO is requiring the consent of the coroner to move her. The family may not legally be allowed under CA health code laws to take her home since under the law she is considered a corpse.

I think all sides share fault here, especially the fault of making this into a sideshow and having it deteriorate to the point where it has become about anything other than Jahi.

And although Mr. Dolan's blog entry was surely intended to elicit public sympathy, it makes me extremely uncomfortable as a parent if the family was indeed cleared and then barred by a barricade and security from being with Jahi when CHO was due to turn the vent off due to the expiration of the initial TRO on December 30th. I don't care what the situation was, it NEVER should have gotten to that point.

bbm Seeing how the hospital can not comment, I can not go on an "if" situation. It's not worth getting upset about if it didn't happen.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Wasn't it her pastor who cancelled the fund raiser? I'd have to find the link, but I remember there was a fundraiser scheduled at the church, but it was cancelled, I think, the 29th? I thought that was the right thing to do, and I think you're right about his being key to helping this mother begin to accept and try to heal.

I agree with you, and other posters, who have said that this is now a mental health issue re: Jahi's mom, but I think it's due to the grief, and the trauma she has experienced during all of this. The people that are surrounding her and supporting her, in my opinion, are hurting more than helping. They are agreeing with her insistence that her daughter is alive, can be "fixed", when the reality is that no, she isn't, and no, she can't be. I find it very, very heartbreaking that nobody is willing to explain this to her, and if they have and were unsuccessful, are now just going along with it.

Yes, the pastor cancelled the fundraiser last week.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Thank you! I just want to use your post as a jumping off point.

I do believe that her heart will give out, or a determination may be made by the courts for the ventilator to be removed. I hesitate to have faith in the court systems because of the way the lawyers can tie these things up. I don't see her being moved from CHO, but I may end up having to eat those words.

"If" her heart does cease to function, it is in the best interest of the hospital that there is a ongoing investigation into this by the CA Dept. of Public Heath. Their investigation, will help the hospital in the court proceedings, to show that they followed protocol.

Sadly but realistically, this would be the best outcome in this tragic situation. That said, the family will undoubtedly blame the hospital for not "feeding" or otherwise providing proper care for their brain-dead loved one. :moo:

 

[kytty]

@ Elley May--why wouldn't the hospital be able to comment on its security procedures? This was not medical treatment and therefore is not protected by HIPAA.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Very interesting read:

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2014/01/jahis-legacy.html

It was an interesting read for sure. But it's a blog containing unsubstantiated rumors. Iirc that's not allowed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BeginnersLuck]

IMO, the court system should never have been involved at all. I don't know how one can look at the irrefutable facts of her medical status and wish to prolong it. I admire faith. In this case, I don't know how much is about faith and how much is about denial.

I agree with you about the statement of the court systems. The hospital was trying to be sensitive to the family and allowed more time than what was required or normal in other cases, for the family to come to terms with her death. They were being sympathetic to the family and that extra time given, which they didn't have to do, allowed for this attorney to get involved.

It's my belief, that the initial judge was mislead and out of sympathy for the family, granted extended time for the family over the holidays.

What I think we may see become of this, is a more strict defined time period in which all hospitals abide by, when it comes to ventilation removal of those declared brain dead. In other words...no exceptions given beyond what may become a more clearly defined time period.

 

[Elley Mae]

@ Elley May--why wouldn't the hospital be able to comment on its security procedures? This was not medical treatment and therefore is not protected by HIPAA.

For further moment I want to see a link to the barred statement. TIA