Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Elley Mae]

What about insurance, don't they have a say in whether they will pay for the procedure. Let's face it no Dr/Hospital is going to donate their services for free. If I where a Dr or the decision maker in a facility being used I would have to say no. After seeing what this lawyer will do I wouldn't touch her. idk jmo

 

[Herat]

I have not posted in quite a while,but, I just must. Dr's can be cruel. I had a Dr. tell my mother to "bring it on" as she was sending me home to die with dilauded rather than do something about my liver. Thank God my mom did "bring it on". We also witnessed her nurse ripping pages out of my file. Dr.'s play CYA. I think these ones are and I would not trust them anymore than I would trust my former dr.

I'm sorry about your negative interaction with the physician, but I can assure you the physicians at Children' Hospital are very highly regarded in the medical community and have vast experience in dealing sensitively and humanely with all sorts of degenerative, traumatic, malignant, and congenital diseases that have very sad outsomes.

There are also reasons why paper would be removed from a chart. Often times the paper chart is just too thick to fit in the binders and older pages are removed to another file so the current one can be used more efficiently. In some places, long daily printouts, like lab data are regularly replaced so that the updated pages are all current and easily found.

 

[Herat]

. Let's face it no Dr/Hospital is going to donate their services for free.

I don't think that is true. Drs and hospitals regularly give a lot of free care to people that can't pay. They certainly do more for free than attorneys do.

In Jahi's case, the Chief of Neurology at Stanford, who did the last brain death examination, donated all his fee to charity.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

The higher court gave them until tomorrow to answer back with their plans. The lower court gave them until the 7th to appeal to the higher court. Can the court tomorrow put an end to this and that will trump the extension the lower court gave?

I think they are scrabbling to come up a plan for court tomorrow, to try and get more time from the judge, if they don't have plans in order and those plans are verified and approved by then.

 

[Herat]

So now he is trying to start a riot in Oakland? It isn't hard to do. He thinks maybe civil unrest will encourage the payout?

It's been tried before

 

[Deleted member 110058]

I don't think that is true. Drs and hospitals regularly give a lot of free care to people that can't pay. They certainly do more for free than attorneys do.

In Jahi's case, the Chief of Neurology at Stanford, who did the last brain death examination, donated all his fee to charity.

Herat,
Would he do this because it could partially obsolves him of any legal reprecussions? Just curious..

 

[Herat]

If they are going to move her to the farmhouse in NY, I sure hope they have the doors widened by now and the electricity turned on..........

 

[Steft50]

For New York State, updated in 2011

http://www.health.ny.gov/profession...rator/letters/2011/brain_death_guidelines.htm


Definition

New York State regulation defines brain death as the irreversible loss of all function of the brain, including the brain stem. See 10 N.Y.C.R.R. § 400.16. The three essential findings in brain death are coma, absence of brain stem reflexes, and apnea. An evaluation for brain death should be considered in patients who have suffered a massive, irreversible brain injury of identifiable cause. A patient properly determined to be brain dead is legally and clinically dead.

The diagnosis of brain death is primarily clinical. No other tests are required if the full clinical examination, including an assessment of brain stem reflexes and an apnea test, is conclusively performed. In the absence of either complete clinical findings consistent with brain death or ancillary tests demonstrating brain death, brain death cannot be diagnosed.

I found the above info last night thanks to someone posting a link to all states. I hope it answers your question, I didn't read the whole page just the definition of brain dead.

If they do manage to successfully move her to NY, then they may have more luck finding physicians that will operate. NY and NJ shared the same laws at one time. I'm not sure if that has changed as of recent.

Again, it's finding the physicians that will take the risks that are associated with performing these procedures.

 

[Minette]

Again, the story is changing....

RSBM: The one constant about this story is that it is constantly changing!

For myself, I am glad that how the hospital handled this case is being investigated. The results of the investigation should be completed long before any civil litigation is resolved and if there were any procedural errors they can be corrected. And if there were NOT any procedural errors made by the hospital/staff, that can become known, too.

P.S. I want to be BeginnersLuck when I grow up as a poster. Always so calm, so thoughtful, so respectful. :rose:

 

[Herat]

Herat,
Would he do this because it could partially obsolves him of any legal reprecussions? Just curious..

No.

It's probably because, as a respected physician and a human being, he wants some good to come out of this sadness.

MOO

 

[Minette]

Herat,
Would he do this because it could partially obsolves him of any legal reprecussions? Just curious..

No, because he was still acting in his professional capacity and that doesn't change whether he was paid or not.

:moo:, I guess.

 

[momrids6]

<modsnip>

I recently had surgery. The nurse explained that CBC and a BMP are standard, but due to my disclosed familial and personal medical history, further preop bloodwork was warranted. I asked when handed the lab paperwork, because my insurance only pays 10% of labs until deductible is met..

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Here is a case where the family was battling the court system based on their religious beliefs

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ont-Take-Brain-Dead-Boy-Off-Life-Support.html

The boy passed away though before everything worked it's way through the court

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/11/17/ST2008111700764.html

 

[K_Z]

If they are going to move her to the farmhouse in NY, I sure hope they have the doors widened by now and the electricity turned on..........

Can you IMAGINE the social/ political/ legal/ media brouhaha that would occur if a hospital discharge coordinator, in cooperation with social workers and physicians PLANNED to discharge ANY living ventilator dependent patient to a dilapidated and partially renovated house in a construction zone??

Let's imagine how that might go.

"Good morning, Mr. and Mrs. XYZ. My name is PDQ, and I am the hospital discharge coordinator. I'm pleased to let you know that we have located a bed for your child/ elderly mother/ elderly father. The good news is the building is being completely renovated, and your child/ mother/ father will be the very first patient they have accepted! However,.....there are a few very minor issues with the current structure, but nothing we can't overcome with a few flashlights, space heaters, extra blankets, extension cords, and a portable generator. Oh- and the facility is about 3000 miles away, but we are confident it's the best option we have. We're planning to discharge your child/ father/ mother to this facility in the morning, when we think we will have transportation arranged. We're hopeful that by the time the plane lands, the facility will have hired some staff to care for your child/ mother/ father. Here are some papers to sign to get the transfer process started."

Madness. It really would be funny if it weren't true, and so very sad. :banghead:

And WHY are the MSM reporters not doing their due diligence and reporting the truth about this farce?

 

[Zuri]

Why exactly is the Department of Health investigating and what would they be looking for as it applies to this situation? TIA

 

[al66pine]

Upthread there was a ref to to hosp "barricading" hosp entry doors, before Monday presser w. Jahi's family.
"Barricade is also the term used in the dailymail.com (FWIW).

To me, from dailymail pix, it appears the barricade is not to prevent Jahi's fam from entering hosp,
but to keep ppl at presser from preventing -either inadvertently or purposefully -
other CHO patients and fam from entering and exiting.

JM2cts and I could be wrong. :seeya:

 

[Herat]

Upthread there was a ref to to hosp "barricading" hosp entry doors, before Monday presser w. Jahi's family.
"Barricade is also the term used in the dailymail.com (FWIW).

To me, from dailymail pix, it appears the barricade is not to prevent Jahi's fam from entering hosp,
but to keep ppl at presser from preventing -either inadvertently or purposefully -
other CHO patients and fam from entering and exiting.

JM2cts and I could be wrong. :seeya:

That is EXACTLY the way I see it.

CHO has hundreds of people coming and going from this hospital, including patients, families, vendors, staff, etc that need free and unencumbered access.

This is just another trashy attorney ploy to engender public sympathy.

 

[Isabelle]

Why exactly is the Department of Health investigating and what would they be looking for as it applies to this situation? TIA

Not sure, but the widespread news could have gotten their attention. Then again, they may have received a complaint that warranted an investigation. Dunno.

In my area Department of Health is titled: Department of Health and Hospitals aka DHH

 

[K_Z]

Why exactly is the Department of Health investigating and what would they be looking for as it applies to this situation? TIA

They are investigating a complaint or report about a potential pattern of similar complications, to determine if everything is being done in accordance with current standards. I believe it falls under the Depts of Health to do epidemiological investigation, as well as complaints about compliance of individual facilities with regulation.

A complaint could have come from just about anyone, as I understand it. Or possibly the adverse events reached a threshold for investigation, triggered by mandatory reporting of surgical complications by the hospital,

JMO.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Here is a case where the family was battling the court system based on their religious beliefs

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ont-Take-Brain-Dead-Boy-Off-Life-Support.html

The boy passed away though before everything worked it's way through the court

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/11/17/ST2008111700764.html

From the first article you posted:

Jeffrey I. Zuckerman, the attorney for Motl's parents, says they have been "utterly shattered" by the hospital's actions.

He stressed that the family's demand for continued life support was based on their obligations under religious law, not an unrealistic hope that their boy will recover.

"You can always hope for a miracle, but if you are asking if they are in denial about their child's medical condition, no, they are not," Zuckerman said.

This is one big difference between the cases. Jahi's mom has stated that she believes Jahi will wake up.