Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #4

[Elley Mae]

"if"
Probably because signing the documents for the release of her remains makes it clear to everyone that Jahi is legally dead. Dolan and his team are probably researching all the consequences of that. Meaning no licensed care facility or licensed physician will be able to do any surgeries without violating the law about abuse of a corpse. It closes many doors and options that the McMath and Dolan group are trying to explore, still.

I fully expect there will be some story as to why the coroner release of remains cannot be signed.

I do not believe they actually have a healthcare facility or physician lined up. I think it's all still a big show.

Dolan has given CHO a huge victory and he might be backing himself into a corner. What was CHO's big dilemma now becomes his. I can see more and more petitions to extend the TRO. Dolan loses a big hand once Jahi leaves CHO under the conditions the mother agreed to.

bbm, This

This will be the moment, if (big if) she signs.

 

[scmom]

The coroner does not turn over live people to anyone. The papers are for the release of a body. Period. That's why Dolan is saying "if". If the papers are signed they are acknowledging they have received the body, not a live human. Game over.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Do you believe the mother really believes that this poor girl can come back to life <modsnip>?

I do know that she is in a highly emotionally disturbed state and, in spite of counselling provided by CHO, is of the belief in miracles. Her emotional state is being aggravated by relatives (IMHO, JMHO, :moo::moo::moo, fringe radical medical people, her attorney, and groups such as New Beginnings.

I do not believe for a moment that her thoughts are of money in any way, shape, or form at this point, other than the tremendous cost of transferring Jahi to a new facility.

Once Jahi is allowed to rest in peace, perhaps her anger will cause her to want revenge against the hospital in monetary form. Right now, I hope all she is thinking about is her daughter.

 

[Herat]

The coroner does not turn over live people to anyone. The papers are for the release of a body. Period. That's why Dolan is saying "if". If the papers are signed they are acknowledging they have received the body, not a live human. Game over.

YUP.

I expect lots of misleading verbiage and lots of scuffling around without details through Jan 7.

Clearly, the court will be petitioned to extend the TRO past Jan 7 deadline. For all sorts of "reasons".

Still don't believe there is a healthcare facility or a doctor as Dolan proposes and I just don't see this mother wanting to have Jahi at home on a ventilator. She's never asked for this in the three + weeks and she's never actively expressed any interest in caring for her herself. She wants CHO to continue all the "free" high-priced care they are extending to Jahi without having to ever actually take responsibility herself. Once Jahi's remains are removed, $50K is gonna disappear, virturally overnight.

I'm sure the mother will not sign the coroner's release. Sure of it.

 

[Donjeta]

"if"
Probably because signing the documents for the release of her remains makes it clear to everyone that Jahi is legally dead. Dolan and his team are probably researching all the consequences of that. Meaning no licensed care facility or licensed physician will be able to do any surgeries without violating the law about abuse of a corpse. It closes many doors and options that the McMath and Dolan group are trying to explore, still.

I fully expect there will be some story as to why the coroner release of remains cannot be signed.

I do not believe they actually have a healthcare facility or physician lined up. I think it's all still a big show.

Dolan has given CHO a huge victory and he might be backing himself into a corner. What was CHO's big dilemma now becomes his. I can see more and more petitions to extend the TRO. Dolan loses a big hand once Jahi leaves CHO under the conditions the mother agreed to.

BBM. He will write a heart wrenching blog post describing the mental anguish of the mother in the coroner's office and how she could not bear to sign the papers because they referred to Jahi as human remains or whatever the coroner verbiage is.

 

[sherbetjello]

Just out of curiosity, have there been any articles concerning how other families currently in CHO PICU with their own children are dealing with this circus? It has to be horrible for them and I hope that the McMath family has shown some respect.

Welcome to Websleuths!

:gathering:

You bring a great question to the table! This has been one of my earliest concerns, and ones of the other McMath children.

 

[Harmony 2]

Please stop making negative insinuations about the family... let's try to be a little more understanding about their devastating loss and struggles in dealing with it... thanks

 

[Herat]

I'm very curious as to how the Violation of Privacy/Religious Rights suit will go. This was the one in Federal court, correct?

As the proceedings are closed, will we get any progress report on this?

The big issue in this one, is Dolan getting paid attorney fees. Must be racking up a huge bill right now, probably in the several hundred thousand $$$, if not close to half a million SSS.

As the malpractice or wrongful death suit is a least a year away, Dolan needs to get paid and the $50K raised on line would look tacky going to him.

 

[Softail]

I'm very curious as to how the Violation of Privacy/Religious Rights suit will go. This was the one in Federal court, correct?

As the proceedings are closed, will we get any progress report on this?

The big issue in this one, is Dolan getting paid attorney fees. Must be racking up a huge bill right now, probably in the several hundred thousand $$$, if not close to half a million SSS.

As the malpractice or wrongful death suit is a least a year away, Dolan needs to get paid and the $50K raised on line would look tacky going to him.

He said from the beginning, he was doing it for free.

I don't have a link handy, I'll see if I can find it.

ETA: The mother says it here:

"We asked for help because we felt our rights were being trampled by Children's and that they were going to override a mother's medical directive for their own interests, damage control. Our lawyer has helped us, day and night, for free.


http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...ly-attorney-release-letter-addressing-critics

 

[SilkySifaka]

I do know that she is in a highly emotionally disturbed state and, in spite of counselling provided by CHO, is of the belief in miracles. Her emotional state is being aggravated by relatives (IMHO, JMHO, :moo::moo::moo, fringe radical medical people, her attorney, and groups such as New Beginnings.

I do not believe for a moment that her thoughts are of money in any way, shape, or form at this point, other than the tremendous cost of transferring Jahi to a new facility.

Once Jahi is allowed to rest in peace, perhaps her anger will cause her to want revenge against the hospital in monetary form. Right now, I hope all she is thinking about is her daughter.

eta nurses should have been checking every 5 minutes for any sign of bleeding in the nose or throat imo. Not waiting for it to come pouring out. They knew she was at risk

I agree and am expecting a whopping multi million dollar lawsuit once Jahi is seen as dead for the hospital for letting her die, not cooperating with family, not giving them time to transfer elsewhere-ithout law suits, for all the litigation and emotional distress.

My big question is how in the world did they let that little girl die. I would sue on that alone. She was in PICU. She shouldn't have gotten past the first blood clot without heroic action being taken but it seems nothing was done until the family saw her bleeding. One drop of blood should have been seen by nurses and doctors and sent her back to surgery. Obese or not, she is a child who deserved the chance to live and the doctors didn't give it to her. It may be partially what is fuelling mom right now.

I hope mom wins a lawsuit for malpractice encompassing all of the things done by CHO. Including name calling of her as the corpose in front of the family.

I am getting angry that the mom is trashed while she is grieving. The hospital spokesman was a disaster.

all imo

eta. Just to say I don't expect and neither should the hospital expect a grieving mom to act the way they want her to. She is grieving. that gets a lot of passes from me and certainly should from medical professionals

 

[Karmady]

He said from the beginning, he was doing it for free.

I don't have a link handy, I'll see if I can find it.

He also said he wouldn't be the attorney in the negligence suit. Wonder if he's waiving his referral percentage in that case, as well.

jmo since I don't have the link handy.

eta: here's the link and snip

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...ly-attorney-release-letter-addressing-critics

"Our lawyer has helped us, day and night, for free.

He has said he will not represent us in a negligence action so that his motives are not challenged."

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Thanks, everyone, for the overnight media updates, links, and posts. DH and I are dealing with our own family medical crisis, and I was away from the forum last night. My thoughts and prayers are with Jahi's family, and I hope that there is a prompt resolution to this sad situation.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I'm very curious as to how the Violation of Privacy/Religious Rights suit will go. This was the one in Federal court, correct?

As the proceedings are closed, will we get any progress report on this?

The big issue in this one, is Dolan getting paid attorney fees. Must be racking up a huge bill right now, probably in the several hundred thousand $$$, if not close to half a million SSS.

As the malpractice or wrongful death suit is a least a year away, Dolan needs to get paid and the $50K raised on line would look tacky going to him.

He may be working pro bono or on a contingency for the wrongful death suit.

 

[Donjeta]

Two page article:

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-0104-banks-jahi-mcmath-20140104,0,6691480.column?page=1&track=rss

In Jahi McMath saga, science and religion clash

Families of brain-dead patients need compassion and understanding, not lawyers or PR consultants.

"There really are no super-duper great answers that are going to please everybody," said Dr. Richard Boudreau, a physician and lawyer on the faculty at Loyola Marymount University's Bioethics Institute and the ethics team at Marina del Rey Hospital.

"The medical staff is hoping the decision is made in five minutes," he said. "The family is going to talk, going to pray, going to cry.... We have to handle that family respectfully and with as much dignity as we can."

It's not clear that happened in this case, which might have unfolded differently with fewer lawyers and public relations consultants and more patience and sensitivity.

...

The hospital's insistence on promptly disconnecting her ventilator, without explaining what had gone wrong, turned that anguish into anger.
...
"No matter how much medical evidence we present to the family, if they have a faith that dictates things, it's hard to overcome that," said Boudreau, the bioethics expert. "They are going to believe what they're going to believe; our job is to sort things out."

Boudreau suspects that sorting-out didn't happen in this case.

He would have convened a team of physicians, social workers, grief counselors and clergy to walk Jahi's family through the process: to explain why a twitch when you touch your daughter isn't a sign of life, to help the family focus on saying goodbye instead of holding on.

"You go to the family, sit down with them, listen, let them get it out," he said. "You forget about lawyers &#8230; just tell the truth. Say you're sorry it happened and you wish you could reverse history, but you can't."

I don't know... it seems to me that many or most of these things probably were done or at least attempted in the beginning, it just didn't work the way it was supposed to. The first brain death examination was on the 11th and it didn't become a court case until the 17th when they were going to end life support. CHO's response included information about many the supportive measures that were made available for the family.

 

[Donjeta]

He said from the beginning, he was doing it for free.

I don't have a link handy, I'll see if I can find it.

ETA: The mother says it here:

"We asked for help because we felt our rights were being trampled by Children's and that they were going to override a mother's medical directive for their own interests, damage control. Our lawyer has helped us, day and night, for free.


http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...ly-attorney-release-letter-addressing-critics

Free for the family perhaps but IIRC he is asking for CHO to pay his attorney fees in the filings

 

[Softail]

Free for the family perhaps but IIRC he is asking for CHO to pay his attorney fees in the filings

Yes, I believe you are correct. Every filing I have seen lately he does ask for that. I believe the judge has denied him. IMO....

 

[Herat]

Free for the family perhaps but IIRC he is asking for CHO to pay his attorney fees in the filings

Yes, doesn't he look like the hero- free to the family and filing a suit to make CHO pay his costs.

I sincerely hope he doesn't prevail.

 

[jjenny]

Free for the family perhaps but IIRC he is asking for CHO to pay his attorney fees in the filings

Are you serious? On what basis could he possibly think that hospital should pay his fees? The mind boggles.

 

[Leilei]

Schiavo was alive when decision to remove life support was done. Schiavo was never braind dead, she was in PVS. The only life support she was on was the feeding tube.

He said from the beginning, he was doing it for free.

I don't have a link handy, I'll see if I can find it.

ETA: The mother says it here:

"We asked for help because we felt our rights were being trampled by Children's and that they were going to override a mother's medical directive for their own interests, damage control. Our lawyer has helped us, day and night, for free.


http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...ly-attorney-release-letter-addressing-critics

I've been reading up on pro-bono attorneys, and I *think* that, even if he isn't being paid by the family, he will be entitled to a percentage of any monetary settlements/awards. Any of our legal eagles, please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the way this works!

 

[Karmady]

Two page article:

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-0104-banks-jahi-mcmath-20140104,0,6691480.column?page=1&track=rss

In Jahi McMath saga, science and religion clash

Families of brain-dead patients need compassion and understanding, not lawyers or PR consultants.



I don't know... it seems to me that many or most of these things probably were done or at least attempted in the beginning, it just didn't work the way it was supposed to. The first brain death examination was on the 11th and it didn't become a court case until the 17th when they were going to end life support. CHO's response included information about many the supportive measures that were made available for the family.

ITA. There's no reason to think these things weren't done here and every reason to believe that they were. Imo, it's clear from the mother's current position that no amount of counseling, etc. was going to make her believe that Jahi isn't just going to sit up one day ready to hop out of bed and go swimming. jmo