Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #4

[Zuri]

It was reported that she received four blood transfusions so at some point the staff certainly got very worried.

I wonder if they were giving her fresh frozen plasma?

 

[Donjeta]

Who cares where the uncle was while the surgery was performed? How is that relevant in the least???
He's not at fault. In my firm Opinion, Children's is!

No one is blaming him for anything, people were just kindly answering my question. I read an article in which the uncle described the post-op events like he was there too, the quote said he said "we asked", so I was a bit surprised as I thought it was mom and grandma there with Jahi.

The only reason it matters is knowing whether his account is first hand or second hand.

 

[Herat]

Jahi's family has had the green light for days . . . so I don't know why the family has not transferred her body out of CHO

Yup. They can do this any time now. Any time. Day or night. Any time. They are free to get the transport team and ambulance going

They could do it right now. Or in an hour. Or tonight.

Anytime.......

 

[belimom]

The family also said that the bleeding continued for a couple of hours. I find it very hard to believe that a patient in ICU would be ignored for hours.

Brb, have to find link.

A couple of hours is a long time to be ignored.

But I can see it happening - even though in this case I have no idea.

My great-uncle had a simple surgery performed. He was fine. He was sitting up, talking, chatting, and eating his supper that had been delivered to his room. My two aunts were with him - his wife and her sister (my grandmother's sisters). He started choking on his steak. One aunt (his wife) ran into the hall and told a nurse. She laughed and said, "Okay - just a minute." My aunt went back into the room. After several minutes, he was turning purple/blue. She went back out. No nurses around. She ran up to the nurse's station and the secretary (?) said she would page someone. No one came. It was a full 35 minutes before anyone went into the room. Both of my elderly aunts were hysterical. He could not be revived, went into a brief coma, and died a few days later.

My dad helped my aunt by accompanying her to an attorney. She felt very uncomfortable about taking the money. In the end, she settled with the hospital but for much less than she could've gotten.

You would think someone wouldn't choke on their supper and die in a hospital with doctors/nurses around, but it happened.

 

[iluvmua]

Wow! That's an eye opener. The uncle said that this is all about going for a 30 million dollar lawsuit versus a $250,000 award ("chump change" per the uncle). I guess there's no question about why this is dragging on. I get the impression that the family believes that the longer they can drag it out, the better their chances of getting the $30 million.

http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/mcmath-vigil-raw-video-of-jahi-mcmaths-mothers/vCLZHH/

Yep, I thought all long the main reason why they were dragging this out is for a huge payday. not to mention the donation site.

I don't have ANY sympathy for them.

This is truly unreal at this point.

 

[joypath]

In this raw interview with mom an,d I think, the uncle, he goes on about $$$$. It's quite disgusting. Poor mom. JMO

http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/mcmath-vigil-raw-video-of-jahi-mcmaths-mothers/vCLZHH/

OMGoodness...There is SO much misunderstanding or whatever on the part of the mother regarding heartbeat & pulse...and the toss into the fray the uncle's $$$$ comments...chump change is $250,000??? I had only seen the edited version prior to this, THANKS for the link.

& the mom acknowledges that Jahi would be embarrassed by all the attention....WOW, so WHO put her out there, MOM?

 

[popsicle]

Dominic Di-Natale ‏@domupdates 10m
#FoxNews confirms: New Beginnings facility in NY will receive brain dead #Jahi McMath: “We believe she’s alive.” Watch #FoxReport at 7ET.

 

[Herat]

Her heart still beats, her body is not decomposing. The family believes there is a chance she will spontaneously recover, and I support them.
And until that point, she should not be referred to as "a body"!!

Her body is decomposing or degenerating, whichever term you prefer.

Her brain and brainstem is coagulating into an amorphous semi-liquid mass. CT scans verified the abnormal consistency of her CNS tissue.

Her pituitary gland is dead, as she has developed diabetes insipidus, caused by cessation of pituitary hormones.

Her gut is shutting down and she will develop fecal impactions if not manually removed as she has no lower bowel evacuation function.

Her dependent skin (back, buttocks, back of legs) is developing edema and even the best nursing care will not prevent breakdown with oozing and ultimately infection.

 

[Isabelle]

In these days of EMR, things are different. Impossible to alter the chart, I'd NEVER say NEVER but there are significantly MORE checks & balances than "back in the day"..

OT, a smidge....A malpractice case on which I served (yeah, BOTH side lawyers thought with my background I'd be an asset!) was influenced GREATLY by the post-incident M.D. charting. The physician under scrutiny thought charting on the side of the page, differing pen color and elaborate differing details to the BB technologist & laboratory time-stamp testimony MIGHT absolve his delayed clinical response to the bleed-out.
Yeah, he lost the case...DUH and his license, briefly to perform cardiac caths but heck, the rest of the group practice went unscathed...

NICU patient on ECMO ordered to be given an dose of morphine 10 times what is normal and was given the dose for at least a few days. Medical resident ordered the wrong dose. I cared for patient and became very confused when preparing to draw up morphine dose which always required a 9 part saline to 1 part morphine dilution before dose could be drawn. The dose ordered did not require the dilution. Record checked and double checked, neonatal nurse practioner consulted and reviewed chart,, duplicate/carbon copy of order taken from chart for incident report. The next day it was noted that the dose on the original record had been altered from 1 mg IV to 0.1 mg IV; and that was an easy alteration to make. The nurse who had been caring for this baby altered the document to cover her butt. She didn't know an incident report had been generated that included the carbon copy of the original order. The outcome was not pretty!

 

[Herat]

Dominic Di-Natale ‏@domupdates 10m
#FoxNews confirms: New Beginnings facility in NY will receive brain dead #Jahi McMath: “We believe she’s alive.” Watch #FoxReport at 7ET.

Well this ought to be interesting.........

 

[Donjeta]

What bothers me on a general level is at what point does the family get to make decisions for their loved ones?

Someone suffering endlessly may wish to die and even say as much, but assisted suicide or helping them die sooner rather than later is illegal.

Yet when a family wishes to keep their loved one alive, the legal boundaries get blurred and then the hospital often wins, pulling the plug.

It can't be both ways, folks. Either we allow the gov't into our lives and give them control, or we believe more in the rights of the family/individual, even if that means others will make decisions that we disagree with. Because they will. Like with Jahi.

It's just that I believe that however much we'd like to, we can't decide to keep anyone alive if they are already deceased. The only thing we can do at that point is to prolong their decay.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Yup. They can do this any time now. Any time. Day or night. Any time. They are free to get the transport team and ambulance going

They could do it right now. Or in an hour. Or tonight.

Anytime.......

I hope that it's done before the Tuesday court deadline, but I suspect that another delay is on the horizon. :moo:

 

[Isabelle]

I wonder if they were giving her fresh frozen plasma?

Would imagine so. Also platelets?

 

[Herat]

NICU patient on ECMO ordered to be given an dose of morphine 10 times what is normal and was given the dose for at least a few days. Medical resident ordered the wrong dose. I cared for patient and became very confused when preparing to draw up morphine dose which always required a 9 part saline to 1 part morphine dilution before dose could be drawn. The dose ordered did not require the dilution. Record checked and double checked, neonatal nurse practioner consulted and reviewed chart,, duplicate/carbon copy of order taken from chart for incident report. The next day it was noted that the dose on the original record had been altered from 1 mg IV to 0.1 mg IV; and that was an easy alteration to make. The nurse who had been caring for this baby altered the document to cover her butt. She didn't know an incident report had been generated that included the carbon copy of the original order. The outcome was not pretty!

And it shouldn't be. That was an entirely preventable error.

There are now regulations in place to prevent decimal errors. Not entirely foolproof, as we have seen with the Heparin labeling problem where lower and higher concentrations in purchased vials both had a blue band on the label that was easily confused if one did not actually stop and read the darn label. The manufacturer was actually very resistant to making the change so the labels were completely different and could not be confused at a glance.

And there will still be mistakes. But altering the record is not acceptable.

 

[krimekat]

Only by court order, or they would've disconnected her long ago by their choice!! Why can Jahi be allowed to live out the rest of her life, however long that is, elsewhere- even if Vents and G-tubes are required??? Her mother has assumed full responsibility. Children's is in CYA mode in my opinion.

she's been declared brain dead by multiple medical personnel & the Court - yes, CHO was prepared to release Jahi's body from the vent last month.

IMHO CHO would LOVE Jahi's body to be transferred & is waiting for it to be/has made concessions so it can be

I don't think CHO is in CYA mode, I believe the family to be though

 

[Karmady]

No, he was not there. Up thread someone posted his instagram link. I forget where he was but there was a comment saying Jahi was having surgery this morning. He commented back that he was saying a prayer for her and would see her when he got back. jmo

Cabo

 

[otto]

I guess my main reason for posting was seeing Jahi referred to as 'the body'. Machine or not, as long as she is breathing and has a heartbeat, she is a person. And they are being insensitive to the family by saying 'the body'.

I do think they should unplug her as some point, but I think they really just need time to understand - at least the mom. There is no evidence that this is true - just my hunch. As a psychologist and a former Patient Representative as a hospital, I've seen folks have very hard times letting go of loved ones. I wheeled a woman to the morgue once and sat with her as she cried and hugged her husband's body. I had a friend who was brain dead and visited her the day before they unplugged her from the machines. I held her hand, stroked her arm, told her how much I loved her, how she had been a second mom. Her husband was very shaken up and didn't know what to do. It was her friend who sat with him and helped him keep a level head and decide to pull the plug. And then it was over in a minutes. It was the right thing to do, but even as a highly-educated very practical person, he couldn't think straight through his grief.

I think this mom is having a hard time herself, letting her daughter go. I think she's hoping for a miracle. It's not going to happen, but my heart says to give her a little more time. Yes, it's been a month, but this started just days after the surgery--- the fight between the family and the hospital. And I think the legal fight has delayed the stages of grief.

It's okay if we disagree. I just think until the plug has been pulled, she shouldn't be called 'the body'.

(ETA - I think if there had not been a legal fight, then the family may be allowed the plug to be pulled early. Of course we don't know - there's no way to know. It's just what I think. I agree much about this case is that gray area of what is ethical to do in such a situation. But at least stop calling her 'the body'.)

This is no longer about being sensitive to the family because the family has stated that they are interested in pursuing a 30 million dollar lawsuit against the hospital. That statement changes the relationship between the family and the hospital from patient care to a legal discussion. Furthermore, a family that goes to the media to discuss how much money they hope to get, stating that $250,000 is "chump change", is likewise very insensitive regarding the deceased patient. Why is the hospital expected to be emotionally sensitive to a family that views their deceased child in terms of "chump change" or winning the lottery.

The mother said that she asked the hospital to do a brain scan. When the media asked about the results, she said she didn't yet have the information. She has that now. What did the brain scan reveal? The mother has all the information she needs and she seems to understands it. Each time it was confirmed that the child is deceased, the mother looks to another reason to prolong this dispute. Now, we have the lawyer referring to religion and asking whether the story about Jesus is a bed time story. Of course it's a bed time story. What does that have to do with the fact that a 13 year child stopped breathing a month ago? Now that there is absolute scientific proof that the child is dead, the family turns to religion and is seeking some sort of religious reason to artificially sustain a dead body. Perhaps it's time to update the Bible to include a chapter about how Jesus was hooked up to a ventilator before he was brought back from the dead.

 

[ceecee30]

About the questions about cameras in patient care areas and rooms, NO. The munchausen by proxy cases cited would have had to have some kind of court order to get cameras there. There are, however LOTS of cameras in the common areas of hospitals, hallways, parking lots, cafeteria, etc.

There has been lively debate over the years about recording devices in places like operating rooms for c-cections, and delivery rooms, wrt med mal litigation. Each hospital has its own policies on this. Hospitals CAN limit what family members can photograph and record. Staff members performing their duties CAN refuse to be photographed or recorded by family members. You can read more about this topic by doing a search.

I am going to go look on my own, but does anyone have enough familiarity with CHO to answer this? Does CHO have multiple specialty ICU's, such as Surgical ICU, cardiovascular ICU, etc, or do they have only one combined PICU?

Our SCBU, NICU and ICU at our states children's hospital has cameras but only in general areas and the intensive care units, I think personally it helps staff that are already extremely busy, I was never worried about our privacy when my son was there, I felt quite comfortable in that there was camera access in there so he could be monitored easier

 

[Herat]

.

Perhaps it's time to update the Bible to include a chapter about how Jesus was hooked up to a ventilator before he was brought back from the dead.

otto - you crack me up!

Dolan is throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks........

 

[iluvmua]

Dear Jahi, I am SO sorry your family only saw you as a cash cow and nothing more.

makes me want to cry.