Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[Quester]

Have been following this case on the news but just joining this case on WS ...

I assume this was an elective surgery that the parents agreed to.

Was weight loss suggested as an alternative to surgery and which might have achieved the same/near same results as the surgery or was surgery the only option and strongly suggested by the medical team? TIA

 

[AnaTeresa]

FACT: The reason we are calling Jahi a corpse and stating she is decomposing is because it's true. She's been declared dead and has a death certificate to prove it - you are then a corpse.
Like it or not, it's not "calling" it anything but what it IS at this point. Denial doesn't change fact. There has been the link (ad nauseum) for those who will READ IT and understand that yes, indeed it IS decomposing. Choosing to ignore that report doesn't make it untrue.

Opinion: IMO there is a HUGE difference between Jahi and the pregnant woman for one reason (and in my opinion), and one reason only. In the case of a pregnant woman there is a viable life to still potentially be saved. THAT child has rights because the fetus itself has NOT been declared deceased. Now, if that unborn child is declared brain dead, along with the mother, then I would absolutely feel the same way I feel about Jahi.

Comparing the pregnant woman with a viable fetus to Jahi's case is completely absurd.
One has POTENTIAL for a viable life; should sustaining the body for a specific time deem successful.
There is ZERO chance of Jahi "surviving" what her parents are putting her earthly body through.

There is a CHANCE at life with the sustenance of one of these bodies; Jahi's isn't that one.

Yes, but the problem I have with this idea that Jahi is a corpse and a pregnant woman is not, is that the only difference is gestation. I'm not choosing to ignore a report about Jahi's deteriorating state, I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy in persons who refuse to acknowledge the sameness of the state of these two women. Either the body begins to deteriorate at brain death or it does not; gestation should play no part in a lay person deciding whether to call one a corpse and one not.

 

[Karmady]

I see it completely differently than you do.

That's because the way the court ruled was completely different

jmo

 

[seattlechiquita]

Fetuses have rights? Starting when exactly?
She was 14 weeks along, according to the article and at that time the only thing ascertained was the child had a heartbeat because of the ventilator.

In Texas, apparently since you are thinking about having unprotected sex. It's how that legislature rolls.

 

[Karmady]

Yes, but the problem I have with this idea that Jahi is a corpse and a pregnant woman is not, is that the only difference is gestation. I'm not choosing to ignore a report about Jahi's deteriorating state, I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy in persons who refuse to acknowledge the sameness of the state of these two women. Either the body begins to deteriorate at brain death or it does not; gestation should play no part in a lay person deciding whether to call one a corpse and one not.

Maybe others are saying that. But imo, the only non-corpse among them is the baby. jmo

 

[Linda7NJ]

I see it completely differently than you do.

I know. We are cool. We can agree to disagree.

I don't think we are supposed to be talking about other cases though.


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[AnaTeresa]

Nothing has medically changed for Jahi or the family.

This is yet another step that keeps the family hanging on to a dead child.
......sad beyond sad.
Forgot to add IMHOO

Or perhaps this is a step that will help the family accept her death? I'm with gitana on this one - perhaps this will help the family say goodbye and adjust to their new reality.

I truly believe that Jahi is gone, and thus she is not suffering. If this transfer to another facility, and these procedures, helps the family ease their grief and be able to let go, then I think it is a good thing. It is inevitable Jahi will pass away, and I hope, truly hope, that this transfer to a new facility will help the family be more at peace with these circumstances.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Have been following this case on the news but just joining this case on WS ...

I assume this was an elective surgery that the parents agreed to.

Was weight loss suggested as an alternative to surgery and which might have achieved the same/near same results as the surgery or was surgery the only option and strongly suggested by the medical team? TIA

We don't know.




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[seattlechiquita]

Yes, but the problem I have with this idea that Jahi is a corpse and a pregnant woman is not, is that the only difference is gestation. I'm not choosing to ignore a report about Jahi's deteriorating state, I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy in persons who refuse to acknowledge the sameness of the state of these two women. Either the body begins to deteriorate at brain death or it does not; gestation should play no part in a lay person deciding whether to call one a corpse and one not.

I concur with both being corpses/dead people/cadavers; and Marlise Munoz is as dead and gone as Jahi McMath. Even more, I wish the body of Marlise could also be disconnected from the ventilators as it was her written wish for it to be so. But TX is a special place - fetus has more rights than the written directives of an adult.

Marlise is being kept as an incubator. Jahi is being kept as a pacifier for her mom. Both situations pretty effed up. imho, moo, etc.

 

[popsicle]

Or perhaps this is a step that will help the family accept her death? I'm with gitana on this one - perhaps this will help the family say goodbye and adjust to their new reality.

I truly believe that Jahi is gone, and thus she is not suffering. If this transfer to another facility, and these procedures, helps the family ease their grief and be able to let go, then I think it is a good thing. It is inevitable Jahi will pass away, and I hope, truly hope, that this transfer to a new facility will help the family be more at peace with these circumstances.

bbm I am confused.

 

[threecrazykids]

Fetuses have rights? Starting when exactly?
She was 14 weeks along, according to the article and at that time the only thing ascertained was the child had a heartbeat because of the ventilator.


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Ok, I stand corrected...the PARENTS of that fetus have the rights to make medical decisions regarding the fetus. Parents make medical decisions and because the mother clearly isn't able to, the father/family is deemed responsible for those decisions. The approvals were given to sustain the mothers body in an attempt to save the fetus.

I have to assume the family had "nothing to lose" by attempting to save that baby. The mother is already "gone" and they know it. They likely figured they would at least TRY to save that baby if it was at all medically possible - so they opted to.

My point being that they attempted to save a life that hadn't been declared dead. That is the difference.

 

[popsicle]

KCBS 740 AM/106.9 FM ‏@KCBSNews 1m
#JahiMcMath case now at the center of a malpractice campaign. Phil Matier reports: http://cbsloc.al/1iVvGBy

 

[seattlechiquita]

Ok, I stand corrected...the PARENTS of that fetus have the rights to make medical decisions regarding the fetus. Parents make medical decisions and because the mother clearly isn't able to, the father/family is deemed responsible for those decisions. The approvals were given to sustain the mothers body in an attempt to save the fetus.

I have to assume the family had "nothing to lose" by attempting to save that baby. The mother is already "gone" and they know it. They likely figured they would at least TRY to save that baby if it was at all medically possible - so they opted to.

My point being that they attempted to save a life that hadn't been declared dead. That is the difference.

Not true. In this particular case, the father asked to disconnect the ventilator to comply with Marlise's written directive, and the state of Texas took over, arguing rights of the fetus. The father never gave approval for what is happening right now. He wishes Marlise could rest in peace.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm sure the family will have questions as they see all these changes going on with her body. Will all these medical professionals have a unconventional answer to give them or will they be honest about what is really happening with her? I have my doubts they will be honest if there is truth about the feeding tube.

I'm wondering if any of these care providers have ever really seen a deceased person kept on a vent for a lengthy time period. If they are used to treating TBI patients and they see these changes in Jahi they haven't witnessed with other patients, will it be like a oh &*%& moment?

At this point, all I see this being, is a potential educational opportunity for those that don't understand brain death, but only if there is someone there to be honest about what is happening to her body.

Are there those that actually have any sort of medical credentials that could be so closed minded to reality?

I just can't get past the thought of this being on the lines of experimentation and desecration of Jahi's body.

Excuse me while I pick my mouth up off the floor and I'm sorry for thinking out loud here.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Fetuses have rights? Starting when exactly?
She was 14 weeks along, according to the article and at that time the only thing ascertained was the child had a heartbeat because of the ventilator.


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It's in Texas law. I have no idea how it got there but it's there.

I haven't read the other thread, nor do I wish to, but I'm sure they have discussed that over there.

 

[Tawny]

<modsnip>

This makes me sad.

 

[Linda7NJ]

bbm I am confused.

IMO there is a difference when someone is dead as opposed to when someone is no longer viable.

I've sat and held my father hand and looked in his eyes and face as his heart finally gave up. There's a difference. IMO

There is no guessing, it's known immediately and completely ...it's final. Maybe that's what Jahi's mother needs?

I'm an atheist. Yet knowing my dad was brain dead didn't stop me from being there when his heart stopped.
Not many people in my position would simply sign and walk out of the hospital. Ask yourself why. Was that for you? For them?
Jahi's mother simply needs to sit a little longer.







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[Wolf Dreamer]

Exactly, I agree.

And I also find it rather disturbing how many people are adamant at calling Jahi a corpse and repeating ad nauseum that she is decomposing. I've been truly appalled by the lack of compassion for the family, particularly since attitudes are so very different toward the pregnant woman. There's a lot of people talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Jahi is a corpse. She is dead. Gone. And she is also decomposing; that's in the medical assessments.

I don't know about this woman being kept alive, not caught up with that yet, but if she truly is brain-dead then that is just as gross an abuse as the one of Jahi's body. They aren't trying to save her - like Jahi, she's gone and not coming back, they're using her as an incubator because she had the misfortune to collapse and die whilst carrying a non-viable group of cells.

 

[ItsJustaName]

Yes, but the problem I have with this idea that Jahi is a corpse and a pregnant woman is not, is that the only difference is gestation. I'm not choosing to ignore a report about Jahi's deteriorating state, I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy in persons who refuse to acknowledge the sameness of the state of these two women. Either the body begins to deteriorate at brain death or it does not; gestation should play no part in a lay person deciding whether to call one a corpse and one not.

They are both dead. The pregnant dead woman has a living fetus and the state law decrees that the hospital should attempt to save the child. I doubt it will work.

 

[threecrazykids]

Yes, but the problem I have with this idea that Jahi is a corpse and a pregnant woman is not, is that the only difference is gestation. I'm not choosing to ignore a report about Jahi's deteriorating state, I'm pointing out the blatant hypocrisy in persons who refuse to acknowledge the sameness of the state of these two women. Either the body begins to deteriorate at brain death or it does not; gestation should play no part in a lay person deciding whether to call one a corpse and one not.

Maybe I'm not relaying my position well, in regards to your comment.

The pregnant woman most certainly IS a corpse. However, her life (as a corpse) isn't the ONLY life to be considered - because she is pregnant.

The gestation is what MAKES these cases different. I 100% completely agree with you the sameness of the state of these two women. I don't know that the body of the pregnant woman is NOT deteriorating (haven't read up on that case).

However, should that fetus be found to be brain dead then I would then follow the same beliefs to end all care for the mothers body as well.

I guess what I'm trying to say - black and white - is that there is an unborn child in one case. I 100% back their choice to sustain a body (if that is even feasible) to ATTEMPT to save that child. There is NOTHING that will bring life out of the sustaining of Jahi's body.

Hope I'm clear on what I am saying...