Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[Linda7NJ]

Sure!

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003281.htm

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=skin+turgor&qpvt=skin+turgor&FORM=IGRE

Ah ha!

Thank you!
I never knew it was called that. I knew how to check, but never knew it had a name

 

[K_Z]

Regarding whether or not they returned Jahi to the OR - most PICU's are equipped to perform emergency surgery in case the patient is too unstable to move.

For example- in the past year our unit has seen the following surgical procedures done: TWO diaphragmatic hernia repairs, a repair of a bowel perforation and multiple cardiac surgery revisions (shunt clipped, re-do sternotomies and the like)

It happens all the time. While an OR is preferred, sometimes you just don't have time.

Do you think they could have ligated a carotid on the PICU if she was bleeding out? All I can find is topical fibrinogen and epi soaked gauze on a a magills. I have an email in to an ENT friend to see what he would do in a PICU situation of a bleed out from a tonsil fossa. Cautery would be preferred, I suppose.

And obviously she would have to be emergently intubated as well, to secure the airway.

We do have those little pen like battery powered cautery devices, but it sure seems like it wouldn't be enough to stop a carotid bleed. One of our general surgeons saves the partially used ones to do his own veterinary procedures on his farm animals.

 

[popsicle]

Denial is a very real, unconscious, defense mechanism. It just is.

I agree. I didn't mean that in a negative way at all. I should have said what the mind tells itself or something. :seeya:

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Sheri Cardo ‏@SheriCardo 3h

THIS is what the #JahiMcMath case has really been about for lawyer: Raising medical malpractice cap. Good journalism. http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matie...s-Consumer-Watchdog-5123174.php?cmpid=twitter …

Sorry, quoting my own post to add another paragraph I just noticed in this article. Ugh.

Dolan is past president and a current board member of Consumer Attorneys of California, the prime group funding the ballot initiative to lift the limit on pain and suffering awards. Last summer, he co-authored an article for the group's in-house magazine branding the $250,000 cap "draconian, arbitrary and outdated."

 

[Leilei]

What date is that from?

Looking back, I believe it was from Christmas Day.

ETA: Nope, December 20th. Had to scroll down further.

 

[swilla2]

Denial is a very real, unconscious, defense mechanism. It just is.

I can't help but think about how the mother will feel once she finally realizes what's going on, and after she witnesses the body of her child wither away; once she realizes That her child truly has been dead for over a month. I would be severely traumatized and in shock. They'd have to lock me away.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Wow! That is an intense thought-- that maybe she WAS returned to the OR, and the family has not said so. It seems unlikely on the one hand-- it is hard for me to believe the family would "en masse" omit that very critical detail.

Nothing about the OR-- AND nothing about the ENT surgery service. I am actually quite bothered that most of the criticisms of "the hospital" come from the uncle, attorney, and family. Only Dr. Durand, chief of pediatrics, has been named by name as someone they are particularly vexed with. No one else by name. Not a single nurse, doc, or housekeeper. That has always been a red flag for me-- that the "entire" facility has been maligned, but only one person named.

And yet, for all of the supposed vitriol toward "the nurses" who let Jahi bleed to death during "shift change", and "required" the family to clean up Jahi's blood, the NURSES of the PICU have been singled out for praise by the family as compassionate.

So I have a hard time reconciling the image of "evil" PICU nurses, with the "compassionate" PICU nurses. And the docs are not mentioned at all. There WERE doc/s present. They ordered transfusions. And the family has NOT slammed the ENT docs in public-- ONLY Durand and "the hospital".

The families ill words towards the hospital/Duran, haven't added up with their actions. IMO, they clearly wanted CHO to keep and treat her indefinitely, but were forced into a position where they had to move her to keep her on the ventilator.

The mother stated that she wanted CHO to "fix" her and pointed out that they were a research hospital. She praised the nurses that cared for her.

Her anger is taken out on Duran because she doesn't want to accept Jahi is deceased. When it all boiled down to when the ventilator was to be removed, the family met with those in charge to argue this and Duran being chief of pediatrics had the responsibility, or final say, that the care would no longer be continued.

JMO and my meds are kicking in to, so I hope my post isn't totally confusing.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

What date is that from?

That's a different photo that the one of her younger sister holding her hand that younger sis posted on Instagram. Different angle, and different color of nail polish.

The instagram photo has purple nail polish, and fingertips up to first knuckle are decidedly grayer:

http://instagram.com/p/ikT4vbo0gq/#

(Mods, feel free to delete if this is not permitted.)

 

[Herat]

Pink polish hand and purple polish hand look quite different to me.

The fingertips are definitely paler and are either losing turgor or showing some degree of dessication/ dehydration or poor perfusion in the purple polish one.

I don't think purple polish has the IV on the top of the hand.

 

[otto]

My post from yesterday.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

So she possibly bled 25-30% of total blood. If she had the heart attack at that moment; at the time that the carotid artery most likely leaked, I'm guessing that there would have been little that could be done, so no OR. If she had a heart attack after the transfusions, she more likely would have been in OR, depending on availability. My bet is on excessive bleeding in ICU, choking, blood in lungs, heart attack, absence of oxygen to brain, brain swelling, death ... prognosis on Dec 11 and confirmed Dec 12 ... just a guess.

 

[otto]

I don't do facebook. Could someone screengrab it? Please

 

[Leilei]

That's a different photo that the one of her younger sister holding her hand that younger sis posted on Instagram. Different angle, and different color of nail polish.

The instagram photo has purple nail polish, and fingertips up to first knuckle are decidedly grayer:

http://instagram.com/p/ikT4vbo0gq/#

(Mods, feel free to delete if this is not permitted.)

Yes, the pink polish one is from 12/20/13. Her mother is holding her hand. The purple polish one is from... I want to say 1/3/14?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I can't help but think about how the mother will feel once she finally realizes what's going on, and after she witnesses the body of her child wither away; once she realizes That her child truly has been dead for over a month. I would be severely traumatized and in shock. They'd have to lock me away.

Or she will simply start the process when her daughters heart stops. IMO she will be content that she did everything she could do and will be at peace with trying.

IMO she will never believe what you or I do. That's okay.

 

[Leilei]

I don't do facebook. Could someone screengrab it? Please

Bingo.

http://www.ktvu.com/photo/news/local/mother-holding-jahi-mcmaths-hand/p4GzZ/

 

[meanmaryjean]

Can I clear up something? A 'heart attack' does not (necessarily) mean cardiac arrest.

A heart attack (or properly a myocardical infarction) is when one of the blood vessels tha supplies the heart muscle itself with blood becomes blocked, and the muscle downstream from it dies unless that vessel is reopened either through drugs or a stent or surgical intervention.

A 'heart attack' CAN also cause cardiac arrest (the heart stops beating) but that is not always the case. Cardiac arrest can be caused by a multitude of things - drugs, hypovolemia, hypothermia, trauma, etc.

So it is highly unlikely that Jahi suffered a 'heart attack' but she certainly suffered cardiac arrest (with subsequent resuscitation but not efficiently enough to protect her brain from death)

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Pink polish hand and purple polish hand look quite different to me.

The fingertips are definitely paler and are either losing turgor or showing some degree of dessication/ dehydration or poor perfusion in the purple polish one.

I don't think purple polish has the IV on the top of the hand.

Jewelry worn by Jahi is also different; rhinestone bracelet with purple nail polish; cross bracelet with pink nail polish. They appear to be taken at different times.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Bingo.

http://www.ktvu.com/photo/news/local/mother-holding-jahi-mcmaths-hand/p4GzZ/

That settles it; news title with this Facebook photo says Mom is holding her hand, there. The other photo is of younger sister's hand holding Jahi's and posted by younger sis on Instagram.


ETA: Oops, sorry, didn't see Herat already confirmed that (a few posts back) until now.

 

[Herat]

Jewelry worn by Jahi is also different; rhinestone bracelet with purple nail polish; cross bracelet with pink nail polish. They appear to be taken at different times.

They were taken two weeks apart.

The latter (purple polish) ones are looking quite abnormal to me. It must be noticeable to the mother, and that was 5 days ago. (and no, it isn't nutritional, it's circulatory)

 

[al66pine]

I remember a surgeon telling a patient she would not be allowed to wear nail polish in OR, and that even the nail polish was 'clear' the OR team would remove it before surgery began.

The reason given? OR personnel needed to be able to view the nailbeds. For what, IDK.

Seeing Jahi's pix w. diff colors of polish made me wonder about that.

Anyone have an idea about the accuracy of the stmt---
--- back then, many (30?) years ago. True then?
--- but not now?

Thx in adv.

 

[Yoda]

FWIW about the hand photos: We can't really go by the dates because the date is when the photo was posted and possibly not when it was taken.

I missed a few pages so this video might be a repeat, but it gave me a little more insight into mom. It's a 7 min one on one interview. She just says over and over that she can't give up on Jahi and wants her to get up.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/html5/video?id=9368414&pid=null&section=null

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/html5/video?id=9368414&pid=null&section=null