Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

[katydid23]

I hope that CHO doesn't settle on anything out of court. They stood their ground with the laws and they ask to speak but they were denied. I think they should allow any future proceedings to play out in court. There have been to many that have been so quick to try and tarnish their reputation. I think it's important that the truth is revealed in this case, so there is a better understanding of brain death. I also think that it's important for others to see the autopsy results. It may make others think twice about doing the same to the bodies of their loved ones.

I could be wrong, but I bet they will settle out of court. I know their corporate attorneys will want to do it that way, most likely. My father and brother have a Personal Injury atty office in Oakland. MOST of their cases are settled out of court. Hospitals do not like to go to public trial. Even if there are extenuating circs, there is always something that will cause a negative in the public's pov.

And medicine is not black or white. Every thing is a judgement call at some point. Most patients have some bleeding after the type of procedures Jahi had. So bringing a larger receptacle may have made sense. But given what happened minutes later, that will look horrible to a jury. Things like that get magnified and make headlines. And EVEN IF the family did things that were harmful, it will still come back to the nurses because they would be negligent for allowing it to happen. jmo [ like "why were so many visitors allowed and why would a 13 yr old be suctionng her own blood/" ---we do not know if it happened, but witnesses from family may testify to it]

 

[NevadaMom]

BBM

Even if the family suctioned and did harm, etc., even then, the hospital will not want to go to trial. They do not want to be seen as bullying the victims family. Especially in Oakland, where this family is seen as heroic by many of the locals. Even if it was not the hospitals or surgeons or nurses faults, CHO will quietly settle, imo. That is what insurance is for. The negative blowback from any kind of trial would be disastrous for them, most likely.

I think, speculation only, that one of the nurses MIGHT have allowed grandmother, a fellow nurse. to suction while she went for more supplies, help etc. And that would make the families actions moot at that point.

BBM

One would hope that the hospital wouldn't let it slide because it sets them up for future issues - "but you did this for that family, why not for ours too?!" ***DISCRIMINATION!!!*** :tantrum: :scared:

As for the nurse permitting the grandmother - no freaking way. They are better trained than that, and they are not going to put their career on the line like that. Also I'm sure the family would have been more than willing to say "but they told us to" or "the let us" because it would go hand in hand with the incompetence they are claiming.

:moo:

 

[katydid23]

BBM

One would hope that the hospital wouldn't let it slide because it sets them up for future issues - "but you did this for that family, why not for ours too?!" ***DISCRIMINATION!!!*** :tantrum: :scared:

As for the nurse permitting the grandmother - no freaking way. They are better trained than that, and they are not going to put their career on the line like that. Also I'm sure the family would have been more than willing to say "but they told us to" or "the let us" because it would go hand in hand with the incompetence they are claiming.

:moo:

I thought the uncle did make that accusation. Didnt he say " the family should not have been expected to do that suctioning" or something along those lines. And they also said the suction device was given to them with the bucket, according to some articles. So they are making that claim, imo.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

BBM

Even if the family suctioned and did harm, etc., even then, the hospital will not want to go to trial. They do not want to be seen as bullying the victims family. Especially in Oakland, where this family is seen as heroic by many of the locals. Even if it was not the hospitals or surgeons or nurses faults, CHO will quietly settle, imo. That is what insurance is for. The negative blowback from any kind of trial would be disastrous for them, most likely.

I think, speculation only, that one of the nurses MIGHT have allowed grandmother, a fellow nurse. to suction while she went for more supplies, help etc. And that would make the families actions moot at that point.

I have a hard time believing that a nurse would "allow" the grandmother to do the suctioning while the nurse left. The grandmother is a LVN. How far away would help be in a PICU? I would think in a PICU if there was an emergency situation someone wouldn't have to run or leave to get help.

I'm just really having a hard time with the way the story has been told. It doesn't add up for me.

eta: I would think a PICU would have strict guidelines that they follow and I just don't see them having family providing any kind of care. Family really should be hands off and let the professionals do their job.

 

[katydid23]

I have a hard time believing that a nurse would "allow" the grandmother to do the suctioning while the nurse left. The grandmother is a LVN. How far away would help be in a PICU? I would think in a PICU if there was an emergency situation someone wouldn't have to run or leave to get help.

I just really having a hard time with the way the story has been told. It doesn't add up for me.

I have a hard time with the way it is being told as well. But it is not possible to have it both ways. We are saying they were wrong for suctioning, and uncle says grandma, mom and stepdad and even Jahi suctioned. That would be wrong, of course, for them to do so and would cause lots of harm. But the PI atty is going to ask "where was the nurse?' while all of this suctioning was going on? And who gave them the device?

And the family has already claimed the nurses gave it to them when they brought them 'the bucket.' that could be a big problem for CHO.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I thought the uncle did make that accusation. Didnt he say " the family should not have been expected to do that suctioning" or something along those lines. And they also said the suction device was given to them with the bucket, according to some articles. So they are making that claim, imo.

The uncle was out of the country on vacation and the mother passed out and had to be admitted.

 

[katydid23]

I have a hard time believing that a nurse would "allow" the grandmother to do the suctioning while the nurse left. The grandmother is a LVN. How far away would help be in a PICU? I would think in a PICU if there was an emergency situation someone wouldn't have to run or leave to get help.

I'm just really having a hard time with the way the story has been told. It doesn't add up for me.

eta: I would think a PICU would have strict guidelines that they follow and I just don't see them having family providing any kind of care. Family really should be hands off and let the professionals do their job.

I totally agree with you. Which is why this story has so many red flags. Is the family lying about using the suction device? IDK

 

[katydid23]

The uncle was out of the country on vacation and the mother passed out and had to be admitted.

But now the uncle has said he was there. So that will have to be sorted out in court. And we don't know what time mom passed out. She may say she passed out after the stress of using the suction device.

I am totally on CHO's side in this. But I am just saying that EVEN WHEN a hospital is doing things correctly, a trial could be a very dangerous thing. The tiniest detail can be blown up into a huge thing, and make headlines.

 

[nrdsb4]

As a former ICU nurse, I have to point out that most nurses have 2 patients. They cannot be in the patient's room at all times. Even if you had a 1:1 ratio, the nurse has to leave the room to get medications, check Dr's orders, look at computer for labs, take or make calls regarding patient care plan, etc. Nurses don't have the luxury of being at the bedside every single moment, even in the ICU.

 

[NevadaMom]

I thought the uncle did make that accusation. Didnt he say " the family should not have been expected to do that suctioning" or something along those lines. And they also said the suction device was given to them with the bucket, according to some articles. So they are making that claim, imo.

I was reading that from a stand point of them claiming that no one came to help, and they felt they had to do it, not that they were given permission from a nurse to do so.

:moo:

 

[katydid23]

Hypothetical:

IF a family member snuck in a hamburger and at a moment when the nurse left the room, family member quickly handed hamburger to just out of surgery child and family member said something like "eat it quickly before the nurse gets back". How could nurse, doctors, hospital be held responsible if directions were clearly given that no *whatever* by mouth for x hours after surgery?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think nurses are babysitters / hall monitors to informed visiting adults. JMO

That is true. But are there cameras to confirm this? Hopefully the nurses made notes if there were food particles in the stomach contents when pumping.

Again, I am not blaming the hospital. Just describing the land mines they might face during a trial.

 

[Wolfie]

I can see the family insisting on a trial because they don't think that a settlement was enough money- at least if the uncle has anything to say about it.

What a sad legacy for a little girl.

 

[katydid23]

I was reading that from a stand point of them claiming that no one came to help, and they felt they had to do it, not that they were given permission from a nurse to do so.

:moo:

That in itself would look bad to a jury, that the family had the time to do some suctioning, before any one else came to help them stop the rapid bleeding.

Juries usually feel lots of sympathy for the patients family, when a child dies after surgery. And if the family can say that no one took them seriously when the 'pleaded' for help.....not good for CHO.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

But now the uncle has said he was there. So that will have to be sorted out in court. And we don't know what time mom passed out. She may say she passed out after the stress of using the suction device.

I am totally on CHO's side in this. But I am just saying that EVEN WHEN a hospital is doing things correctly, a trial could be a very dangerous thing. The tiniest detail can be blown up into a huge thing, and make headlines.

I agree there are reasons why there are out of court settlements.

I just wish there was a way for them to be able to tell their side of the story and the documents revealed, including the autopsy. I wonder if there is a way it could be done without going all the way to a jury trial.

 

[katydid23]

As a former ICU nurse, I have to point out that most nurses have 2 patients. They cannot be in the patient's room at all times. Even if you had a 1:1 ratio, the nurse has to leave the room to get medications, check Dr's orders, look at computer for labs, take or make calls regarding patient care plan, etc. Nurses don't have the luxury of being at the bedside every single moment, even in the ICU.

I totally understand. I am not blaming the nurses. I am just saying what the PI atty will say during a trial. It will be hard to blame it on the family because they will plead 'fear' and say they felt desperate because no one came to help them. And if nurse brought them a bigger bucket for the blood, and then left them there with the suction device, the jury will feel sympathy for them, imo.

 

[Yoda]

Is JM's family aware that New Beginnings is asking for donations to support the family, but the donation link goes to NB's general donation page/account? The request for donations to help Jahi's family was just two hours ago on facebook.

 

[NevadaMom]

That in itself would look bad to a jury, that the family had the time to do some suctioning, before any one else came to help them stop the rapid bleeding.

Juries usually feel lots of sympathy for the patients family, when a child dies after surgery. And if the family can say that no one took them seriously when the 'pleaded' for help.....not good for CHO.

Well, that's what they were claiming is that they were ignored or not taken seriously. Though as some have pointed out that in such emergencies the calm demeanor of staff may make it seem like they're not doing enough to the family. There were blood products ordered and given, so there had to have been *someone* doing *something*. Not to mention that at some point during all of this NW passed out and had to be admitted briefly. This is where the fact that it's only the version what happened being put out by the family becomes a problem.

If the nurses records show a different story then I think that will help a great deal and likely make the the claims from the family look sensationalized. The longer this stretches on the less people tend to side with the family it seems.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm trying to find information on the PICU at CHO.

http://www.childrenshospitaloakland...s/pediatric-intensive-care-unit-picu-113.aspx

I thought I had read it is one big room with curtains. Does anyone know? If it is one big room and that's where Jahi was, help would not be far if the nurse had walked away.

 

[threecrazykids]

Ya know, the more I think about this the more I'm wondering what the deal is with this Top Secret Facility she has been moved to.

If their ethics are as questionable as they appear to be, I'm wondering if Dolan and family explained the situation as loosely as possible and told them that they planned on filing a huge lawsuit against CHO (should she pass) and that X % would be donated to Top Secret Facility in Jahi's name upon their acceptance of her. It's basically just weighing their risks of backlash from the public vs. the financial gain.

Maybe just presented to them as a simple "you are generously accepting her for end of life care" and also on the sly mentioned how much money the facility stood to gain if a settlement was reached.

Is it possible for Top Secret Facility to be named in the lawsuit for compensation somehow?

I just question the overall ethics of this facility. IMO the one thing that could very easily sway the desire to accept her would be a the potential of a HUGE financial gain.

I sincerely hope this isn't the case, but if ethics are a #1 priority for the facility they wouldn't have accepted her to begin with - so what other motive would outweigh that risk?

 

[kaRN]

Because they get PAID to do a job and if I have questions I expect them to ANSWER the questions, that is why!

It is my body (or the bodies of my loved ones) and I will sure as heck ask all the questions I like (I also do a LOT of my own research and it is amazing the things that the "professionals" don't bother to tell their patients when the patient has a RIGHT to know and has a RIGHT to be fully informed when making decisions).

While others have shared a lot of personal hospital experiences on this thread I have not, needless to say the one non-elective major surgery that I had left me with an extremely bad impression of the hospital and staff and I would NOT trust them blindly. Not at all.

All medical procedures require informed consent.