Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

[K_Z]

So, in regards to this link - is it possible for them to evade HAVING to return her body to anyone once she passes?

http://www.fcapeninsula.org/HomeFuneral.html

Per the legal code, they can opt out of an autopsy due to "religious reasons".

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=gov&group=27001-28000&file=27490-27512

Not sure how well their case is going to stand up if they have no autopsy though - I know if I were making decisions on the situation I would certainly feel like something was being hidden (even though the autopsy is probably irrelevant at this stage of the game.)

BBM. It seems to me that if the family called a funeral director to receive Jahi, the very next phone call that funeral director would place is to the office of the County Coroner/ ME to receive instructions on what should be done.

The funeral director doesn't just get to choose. And with the high profile and notoriety of this case, surely the funeral director would know "who" this decedent is, and who the family is. If the funeral director wanted to remain in business, he or she would make that phone call first, before even accepting or transporting the body. JMO.

IMO, Jahi will not be accidentally embalmed or buried or cremated without express permission from the Coroner.

 

[Yoda]

Excellent op-ed. Did someone here write it?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...media-20140116,0,4738876.column#axzz2qWFmGVyh

 

[NevadaMom]

In regards to the number of people coming in I know that when I had my tubal in mid November I was told only ONE person may accompany me to the pre-op room and post-PACU recovery. I would imagine that when children are involved that they would be equally as strict. Or at least I would hope they are. Like others have stated - it's a hospital where people need to rest and heal, not a circus.

Honestly I think it comes down to respect - for the hospital, for the staff, for your family member that is in the hospital, and for the other patients that are are there. IMO It doesn't seem like this family has given much respect to anyone involved, including Jahi, and they see nothing wrong with it.

I'm also the kind of person who doesn't let her own mother come to routine doctor appointments.

 

[K_Z]

jumping off your post ...

re: receptacle for the suctioned material

Is the receptacle cleaned out when the bed is turned over to a new patient or would there be suctioned material from a number of patients and only cleaned out when receptacle is full? TIA

:lol: "why dna isn't really dna"

Yes, the suction canisters are changed between patients if they are used.

I've tried to stay out of the suction fray, but I'd like to point out that the suction tip (yankauer) can also be used to suck out a receptacle. Like an emesis basin.

ETA: In the OR, the nurses are required to add a gelling agent to the canisters before disposal. I'm not sure if they are doing this in all patient care areas, but we have a lot of biohazards in the OR that need appropriate packaging and handling to minimize exposure to pathogens and disease.

 

[Karmady]

I agree, the truth needs to be told. CHO's reputation should be worth more than an ongoing legal battle and a large settlement. The PUBLIC needs to be aware of the facts, also. We may not be ENTITLED to them, but there is SO much misinformation out there about brain death, transplants, ICU care, families visiting and what they can and cannot do, what the laws are regarding brain death, etc.

As far as Christmas goes, Jahi died well BEFORE Christmas (and, trust me, their Christmas WAS ruined at that point, and it will continue to be sad for some of them for many years to come). Also, as far as legalities go, Christmas is not usually considered -- it's just another day of the year; our bodies will do whatever they do or do not do, regardless of the day. What about religious holidays for people of other faiths? Do Jewish or Muslim people get to try to strongarm hospitals into leaving their loved ones on organ support for a month after they die, just so that one of their holidays/holy days isn't spoiled, or does that only apply to the Christmas season?

At this point, I'm no longer worried about CHO's reputation. Any rational person now knows that this is a ...what?....words escape me, but you know what I mean. Maybe CHO can now focus more sharply on patients who are serious about the health of their children and not be distracted by people who may be inclined to stay away due to negative publicity. I'm sure CHO's services are in high demand that they've had trouble meeting that demand in the past. So maybe it's a blessing in disguise. jmo

 

[Madeleine74]

Its self absorbed to have a large number of people in the waiting room. Other families have sick relatives in surgery. They need a quiet place to talk, to try to distract themselves. What I've seen with large groups is that they are almost always loud.

Yes and it *is* rude to other people.

A few months ago my father was in ICU for a couple days & then we moved him to the hospice floor. In the hospital at the same time was a young sheriff who had been in a horrific car crash, had surgery, lingered for a couple weeks, but never recovered. He passed away a day or so ahead of my father. But, while he was still alive, his family and extended family and fellow officers and Lord knows who else, flooded the hospital for days. They even had officers taking shifts on guard duty because it had been in the news. The family & friends took over both waiting rooms in ICU.

Then the terminally ill sheriff was moved up to the hospice floor the day after my father was moved there, into a room next to my father. And... the sheriff's family, extended family, friends, and fellow officers followed and took over one big waiting room, two other small family waiting rooms, and there were platters of food and people in the hallways and it was a madhouse. I'm not kidding when I say there were at least 40 people there at any given time and I think it was probably around 60 people during his final hours. They just took over and basically my mother and I had to go figure out where we could sit. It was stressful.

I actually felt relieved when I found out the young sheriff passed (it was in the news) because I knew the hospice floor of the hospital would be quiet and peaceful once again.

A hospital is not the place for a huge group to hold a vigil/party. I'm sorry, but it just isn't. Immediate family & a few friends, okay. A crowd and platters of food to the point where there's no room for anyone else's family members? No way.

 

[ceecee30]

In regards to the number of people coming in I know that when I had my tubal in mid November I was told only ONE person may accompany me to the pre-op room and post-PACU recovery. I would imagine that when children are involved that they would be equally as strict. Or at least I would hope they are. Like others have stated - it's a hospital where people need to rest and heal, not a circus.



Honestly I think it comes down to respect - for the hospital, for the staff, for your family member that is in the hospital, and for the other patients that are are there. IMO It doesn't seem like this family has given much respect to anyone involved, including Jahi, and they see nothing wrong with it.



I'm also the kind of person who doesn't let her own mother come to routine doctor appointments.

I can confirm that with children surgery they are equally as strict my boy had grommets installed at 11 months and it was either me or his dad allowed in pre op, they relaxed the rules and let us both in post op (only because our son was HIGHLY distressed)

When my son was born he spent his first four weeks in the NICU and SCBU and there was extremely strict guidelines in place (two people only at a time or two parent and one visitor, immediate family only, and siblings only once per week, no other children are allowed, these rules meant my boy was able to grow safely on the outside) we have had further hospital visits (no surgeries or high risks visits) where they have been just as strict, there's a lot more to this story that we aren't being told IMO

 

[kaRN]

Glad to hear! Thanks kaRN!


ETA: How would CHO know/prove who the suctioned material came from? TIA

No problem Quester!

DNA if it came to that but each patient has their own equipment at the bedside and it's only used on a single patient. It's connected to a port at the head of the bed or at the side.

The cannister containing suctioned fluids is clear and looks like what you see in the middle picture here. http://intensivecare.hsnet.nsw.gov.au/suction-catheters

Per the site I linked to 'Suction will be performed by physiotherapists, nurses or doctors.'
'Are There Any Complications?
Suctioning can be distressing for the patient however removal of these secretions is vitally important for the recovery of the patient. All Intensive Care interventions and procedures carry a degree of potential risk even when performed by skilled and experienced staff. Please discuss these issues with the nursing staff and medical who are caring for the patient.'

 

[Morag]

Every hospital (I'm pretty sure!) has specific policies about visiting. Every hospital has security guards. If there is a disruptive group, the hospital is well-equipped to deal with them. If someone is being disturbed by a disruptive group, it is the hospital's fault if the problem is not contained.

 

[Karmady]

Every hospital (I'm pretty sure!) has specific policies about visiting. Every hospital has security guards. If there is a disruptive group, the hospital is well-equipped to deal with them. If someone is being disturbed by a disruptive group, it is the hospital's fault if the problem is not contained.

Really? It's the hospital's fault if a disruptive group takes over the recovery room and ICU? lol No problem with the cretins doing the taking over, though? Nothing like taking away ANY personal responsibility. That's the reason we're here in the first place. jmo

 

[Yoda]

In regard to CHO settling if there is a lawsuit, I hope they don't. If not for defending their reputation, then to defend their employees. The entire PICU staff has been maligned. The social workers, admins, have also been abused by this family. By the family not naming specific staff, all PICU nurses will be looked at as possibly being the ones who allegedly neglected JM, all social workers as uncaring and harrassing family members, all surgeons potentially being the one who will not return if crisis arrived after surgery, and all administrators as rude. Any family bringing a child in will be thinking "is this one of the nurses who will disappear when my child is in their care? Is this the surgeon that won't return to help if something goes wrong after surgery? These people, nurses, doctors, staff, can not defend themselves because of privacy laws. The hospital needs to defend it's employees. I also think they shouldn't settle because this family, and the courts, made these professionals do something that was contrary to what they are hired and required to do. Not only were their professional decisions disregarded, but then they were required to care for someone who they knew their was no hope of recovery for. Required for almost 30 days to go against their intellectual and ethical positions. CMO needs to clear their names or future patient families will enter with a sense of distrust, and that is not a healthy environment.

MOO

 

[SophieRose]

Really? It's the hospital's fault if a disruptive group takes over the recovery room and ICU? lol No problem with the cretins doing the taking over, though? Nothing like taking away ANY personal responsibility. That's the reason we're here in the first place. jmo

If the hospital isn't going to do something about a disruptive group, then who is? The hospital has some responsibility in it, too. If I'm another patient or family, I won't deal with the disruptive party, I will go to a nurse and expect the hospital to do something.

And from where is it coming that the family was disruptive?

Rumor to me is akin to bullying. I try to deal with the facts.

 

[Karmady]

If the hospital isn't going to do something about a disruptive group, then who is? The hospital has some responsibility in it, too. If I'm another patient or family, I won't deal with the disruptive party, I will go to a nurse and expect the hospital to do something.

And from where is it coming that the family was disruptive?

Rumor to me is akin to bullying. I try to deal with the facts.

The disruptive group would be 1000% responsible for their own conduct. Seriously lol The hospital should have called the police. But we all know how that would have ended pfft. jmo

I'm sooo tired of the "bullying" meme. These are grown adults and if anyone's doing the "bullying" (gack) it's not the hospital. jmo

 

[BeginnersLuck]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...t-divisive-battle-over-jahi-mcmath-is-mothers

Winkfield has spent every night for the last two weeks sleeping in a chair with a footrest in a small, third floor waiting room. She and a dozen relatives are startled awake each morning at 7 by a security guard calling, "Everybody up!" She folds her blanket and walks down the hall to sit all day with Jahi, the shy girl with the big smile who told her mother she was scared to have surgery, afraid she wouldn't wake up.

snipped

But for the Winkfields, the lobby has been a chaotic and sometimes unscrupulous place, where throngs of well-wishers bring cards and flowers, pastors pray and bring Bible verses and strangers show up offering incense and oils and demand to lay their healing hands on Jahi. They speak in tongues on the sidewalk. Some say they're the girl's uncle or grandmother and somehow get into the hallways of hospital's third floor. One woman waited in the corridor for 10 hours. "I want to see your daughter and touch her," the woman told Wiwatched Winkfield sleep.
nkfield. When Winkfield said no, the woman replied, "Then I want to be close to you." She watched Winkfield sleep.

snipped

Finally, the family created a secret password so only their closest friends and family can get upstairs. Winkfield almost feels held prisoner.

"I can't go down for fresh air. There are so many prayer rugs and statues and incense and all these directions of how to wake her," she said earlier this week. "We're dealing with a lot of unsavory people."

It's not in her nature to be so suspicious. She's a woman who greets strangers with hugs. But she doesn't know who to trust anymore.

This sounds pretty chaotic to me. I can't even imagine the disruption in the hospital and the extra security that would be needed, jeopardizing the other patients and staff.

Why so many people sleeping at the hospital?

Didn't uncle O say the hospital was discriminating against them and making them wear badges in the interview with the attorney when Jahi was moved?

 

[SophieRose]

Didn't uncle O say the hospital w...issued when a visitor checks in at the lobby.

 

[john's mom]

BBM. It seems to me that if the family called a funeral director to receive Jahi, the very next phone call that funeral director would place is to the office of the County Coroner/ ME to receive instructions on what should be done.

The funeral director doesn't just get to choose. And with the high profile and notoriety of this case, surely the funeral director would know "who" this decedent is, and who the family is. If the funeral director wanted to remain in business, he or she would make that phone call first, before even accepting or transporting the body. JMO.

IMO, Jahi will not be accidentally embalmed or buried or cremated without express permission from the Coroner.

Which brings to mind another question. If Jahi is not in California, wouldn't she need to be embalmed before returning to Ca? My stepfather died in Fl, but the funeral was in NJ. He had no autopsy, as they knew the cause of death, but he did have to be embalmed to travel out of state.

 

[Soulmagent]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...t-divisive-battle-over-jahi-mcmath-is-mothers




This sounds pretty chaotic to me. I can't even imagine the disruption in the hospital and the extra security that would be needed, jeopardizing the other patients and staff.

Why so many people sleeping at the hospital?

Didn't uncle O say the hospital was discriminating against them and making them wear badges in the interview with the attorney when Jahi was moved?

It does sound chaotic, It also offers insight on where Jahi's mom is with her thoughts and feelings. I don't think Jahi's mom is the one who has driven the media. I do believe her issues are her own guilt. I hope that god steps and removes her from her prison. That would be the miracle here

 

[Karmady]

Everyone wears a badge at CHO, it's issued when a visitor checks in at the lobby.

You're personally familiar with CHO? Have you been in the PICU? What's the set up?

 

[Roxye]

It is going to take a lot to convice me that someone snuck in a Big Mac or any solid food and fed it to a post op patient. That just does not happen. jmo

When my Nikel went into this type of surgery.... while he was recover, his step mom and I were hungry. So while he was still asleep in post op, I went down and got us food from the kiosks they have in this children's hospital. We ate as he slept, every time he awoke, the hospital gave us coke icies to sooth his throat.

It is very easy to get real food in the recovery room. I would have never given my child a bite of real food afterwards, but it would have been available for someone else to. Then, I was also not allowed to suction my child either. Which, again, I would have never done.

Something is really off in this situation. Be it feeding a child after surgery or suctioning by a person who has no business doing it. It's all off!

MOO!

 

[BeginnersLuck]

The family has made media statements saying they were suctioning.

I don't believe that a nurse would allow this after reading about the device and others comments about the device, unless a medical professional can tell me differently about family use of a suction device.

I think when the nurse was out of sight, they took it on their own to use the device after seeing the nurse use it.

Something happened when suctioning and she began to bleed hemorrhage from the surgical site.

I think the family pretty much told the story to the media and are angry that the hospital couldn't stop the bleeding. I think the mother is guilt stricken.