Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

[21merc7]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...t-divisive-battle-over-jahi-mcmath-is-mothers


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This sounds pretty chaotic to me. I can't even imagine the disruption in the hospital and the extra security that would be needed, jeopardizing the other patients and staff.

Why so many people sleeping at the hospital?

Didn't uncle O say the hospital was discriminating against them and making them wear badges in the interview with the attorney when Jahi was moved?

From the same article, Jahi's Mom:

"Pray for me, mothers, that my love can bring her life once more," she wrote.

So, some part of her knows Jahi's true condition. She just cannot accept it yet, and that is understandable. Don't know when or if she will be able to, guilt would be automatic in a mother, however, here it is compounded by the family's actions. She may never be able to accept or even get through the guilt phase. I don't see her making the decision to turn off the machine (not that I could either) until it is beyond clear.

 

[Elley Mae]

It is going to take a lot to convice me that someone snuck in a Big Mac or any solid food and fed it to a post op patient. That just does not happen. jmo

I took my mother a crab cake years ago. She didn't have throat surgery, but I did take in food post-op. :truce:

 

[SilkySifaka]

From the same article, Jahi's Mom:



So, some part of her knows Jahi's true condition. She just cannot accept it yet, and that is understandable. Don't know when or if she will be able to, guilt would be automatic in a mother, however, here it is compounded by the family's actions. She may never be able to accept or even get through the guilt phase. I don't see her making the decision to turn off the machine (not that I could either) until it is beyond clear.

I agree with you and don't blame her either. She believes she can come back to life, she isn't pulling life support until its clear she isn't. And i wouldn't be trusting doctors after my little girl died. Certainly not doctors from cho. I would never trust a doctor who didn't use her name and just called her the corpse. There are many religious beliefs that says the soul stays around til a body is put to rest, that is why we use the phrase so not bashing her for it either. At any route, she is Jahi not the corpse to her family and that should have been respected by all. You can say Jahi is dead, Jahi is a corpse, Jahi etc. but to dehumanize her is sickening. I wouldn't take a child to cho just for that attitude itself. We read cases where a family member calls the child a body or we want the body and immediately get suspicious bc it isn't normal to dehumanize or give up on your baby.

I think the insinuations that the family caused her death are just mean spirited. I want to know why the nurse wasn't there within seconds and doing the work, not handing buckets to the family.

JMO

 

[danzn16]

It is going to take a lot to convice me that someone snuck in a Big Mac or any solid food and fed it to a post op patient. That just does not happen. jmo

No one is checked to see if they are bringing in food. So yes it is definitely possible they brought in food to Jahi's room. The only thing that can't be proven is if they actually gave the post op child solid foods. I haven't been able to keep up with this thread so idk if the family said something that would make this a possibility or of it's just speculation. It would be sheer stupidity on the families part to do that, if it was done. It's also sheer stupidity to suction a post op child on your own volition. I've seen family members that say they work in the medical field and already assume they know it all (no matter how low the level of training), so for some reason this doesn't surprise me at all with this family. Obviously they know better than the multiple doctors they've had on the definition of brain death. Why wouldn't they know all there is to know about suctioning?


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[danzn16]

I agree with you and don't blame her either. She believes she can come back to life, she isn't pulling life support until its clear she isn't. And i wouldn't be trusting doctors after my little girl died. Certainly not doctors from cho. I would never trust a doctor who didn't use her name and just called her the corpse. There are many religious beliefs that says the soul stays around til a body is put to rest, that is why we use the phrase so not bashing her for it either. At any route, she is Jahi not the corpse to her family and that should have been respected by all. You can say Jahi is dead, Jahi is a corpse, Jahi etc. but to dehumanize her is sickening. I wouldn't take a child to cho just for that attitude itself. We read cases where a family member calls the child a body or we want the body and immediately get suspicious bc it isn't normal to dehumanize or give up on your baby.



I think the insinuations that the family caused her death are just mean spirited. I want to know why the nurse wasn't there within seconds and doing the work, not handing buckets to the family.



JMO

I doubt cho used that term early on. I think they would have been respectful and considerate after her death. I believe they began using that term after a very extended period of time in hopes the family would come to terms with reality.


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[dh109977]

I doubt cho used that term early on. I think they would have been respectful and considerate after her death. I believe they began using that term after a very extended period of time in hopes the family would come to terms with reality.


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I didn't watch the press conferences. Did the hospital call her the corpse or anything like that in them? If not than it's the family saying they did.

 

[Nore]

Which brings to mind another question. If Jahi is not in California, wouldn't she need to be embalmed before returning to Ca? My stepfather died in Fl, but the funeral was in NJ. He had no autopsy, as they knew the cause of death, but he did have to be embalmed to travel out of state.

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Hi, You are right. A body must be embalmed to cross any State lines. The funeral Director also told me this fact.:seeya:

 

[threecrazykids]

I agree with you and don't blame her either. She believes she can come back to life, she isn't pulling life support until its clear she isn't. And i wouldn't be trusting doctors after my little girl died. Certainly not doctors from cho. I would never trust a doctor who didn't use her name and just called her the corpse. There are many religious beliefs that says the soul stays around til a body is put to rest, that is why we use the phrase so not bashing her for it either. At any route, she is Jahi not the corpse to her family and that should have been respected by all. You can say Jahi is dead, Jahi is a corpse, Jahi etc. but to dehumanize her is sickening. I wouldn't take a child to cho just for that attitude itself. We read cases where a family member calls the child a body or we want the body and immediately get suspicious bc it isn't normal to dehumanize or give up on your baby.

I think the insinuations that the family caused her death are just mean spirited. I want to know why the nurse wasn't there within seconds and doing the work, not handing buckets to the family.
JMO

Why do you believe that the nurse WASN'T there within seconds? You have chosen to believe the family's account. That is your choice. I think it's also clear that the rest of us are also considering that there is ANOTHER side to this story (CHO's) and until their side is heard we aren't jumping to conclusions about the truth behind what happened that day.

If you choose to believe everything that comes out of the mouth of the family as the God's honest truth - that's your choice. I like to hear BOTH sides of a story before I determine fault - as with any case - not just this one.

I mean, if all court cases only heard "the victim's" side it would be a pretty messed up judicial system don't ya think?

 

[ItsJustaName]

Has anyone thought about the PICU nurse? The one the McMath family is saying told them to use the suctioning device? Her job and her license could be on the line. She will spend hours and hours in hearings and depositions. If she did not tell them to use the device, then they are trying to destroy her career to justify their actions.

 

[Madeleine74]

Well as far as I can tell no one here has access to the medical records of this case, nor will those ever be in the public domain. As such, everything written here about what the family did, didn't do, and exactly what the hospital did or didn't do is ultimately speculation. Speculation is a mainstay and it tends to feed on itself. Speculation proves to be wrong in most cases, most, if not nearly all, of the time, and causes a lot of damage along the way, but it remains and proliferates.

 

[threecrazykids]

Well as far as I can tell no one here has access to the medical records of this case, nor will those ever be in the public domain. As such, everything written here about what the family did, didn't do, and exactly what the hospital did or didn't do is ultimately speculation. Speculation is a mainstay and it tends to feed on itself.

The only things being discussed about the family that I have seen, so far, are actions straight from the horse's mouth.

That's fair game as far as I'm concerned.

However, I also think I will go ahead and place my money down on the table right now that those accounts of their actions will change between now and the time this lawsuit is finished.

 

[ItsJustaName]

Well as far as I can tell no one here has access to the medical records of this case, nor will those ever be in the public domain. As such, everything written here about what the family did, didn't do, and exactly what the hospital did or didn't do is ultimately speculation. Speculation is a mainstay and it tends to feed on itself. Speculation proves to be wrong in most cases, most, if not nearly all, of the time, and causes a lot of damage along the way, but it remains and proliferates.

I think the court documents that were filed by the hospital and the doctors' statements are a bit more than speculation. If CHO says Jahi had three not one procedures I think that is a fact. The results of the doctors examinations are facts.

 

[Harmony 2]

Please stick to the facts of the case. Thanks!

 

[mck16]

I took my mother a crab cake years ago. She didn't have throat surgery, but I did take in food post-op. :truce:

Was your mom in ICU? I guess I am just used to old school hospitals that have and adhere to strict polcies. Only 2 visitors at a time and then only every two hours. I can't imagine anything worse than an ICU smelling of hamburger and french fries. jmo

 

[Madeleine74]

I think the court documents that were filed by the hospital and the doctors' statements are a bit more than speculation. If CHO says Jahi had three not one procedures I think that is a fact. The results of the doctors examinations are facts.

I'm not referring to court documents, obviously. A lot of guessing or speculating on various people's actions, including picu staff has been bandied about over 7 threads worth. It's par for the course in pretty much every case discussion. If only the known and verified facts were mentioned and discussed then we'd probably still be on thread #1 as opposed to thread #7. I personally avoid speculation as I'm not interested in fiction.

 

[mck16]

When my Nikel went into this type of surgery.... while he was recover, his step mom and I were hungry. So while he was still asleep in post op, I went down and got us food from the kiosks they have in this children's hospital. We ate as he slept, every time he awoke, the hospital gave us coke icies to sooth his throat.

It is very easy to get real food in the recovery room. I would have never given my child a bite of real food afterwards, but it would have been available for someone else to. Then, I was also not allowed to suction my child either. Which, again, I would have never done.

Something is really off in this situation. Be it feeding a child after surgery or suctioning by a person who has no business doing it. It's all off!

MOO!

I understand, but this was ICU. Not recovery. If I understand the timeline.

 

[Madeleine74]

Where is this taking a burger and fries into ICU/Jahi's room and secretly feeding the patient coming from? Is that a fact? Is that someone else's personal story?

 

[kaRN]

The family has made media statements saying they were suctioning.

I don't believe that a nurse would allow this after reading about the device and others comments about the device, unless a medical professional can tell me differently about family use of a suction device.

I think when the nurse was out of sight, they took it on their own to use the device after seeing the nurse use it.

Something happened when suctioning and she began to bleed hemorrhage from the surgical site.

I think the family pretty much told the story to the media and are angry that the hospital couldn't stop the bleeding. I think the mother is guilt stricken.

Families are trained to use suction if the patient has a chronic condition and is expected to go home with an ongoing need for suctioning. Families are never taught to suction to assist staff in caring for an acute, post-op patient. NEVER.
I think you're spot on in your speculation that the family saw the RN use it and decided to use it themselves. If Grandma was or is an RN which I seriously doubt, she certainly wasn't one at that hospital on that patient. If she is, she's liable for the 'care' she provided and allowed her family members to perform.
I'm heading off now to search for some record of Grandma being a licensed RN. I'll let you know what I find.

 

[Donjeta]

http://thaddeuspope.com/images/Hosp_Opp_Motion_Compel_tube_01-03-14.pdf

I had not seen this document before.
Contains e.g. information about reflexes and automatic movements that may be present in brain dead individuals.

 

[mck16]

Where is this taking a burger and fries into ICU/Jahi's room and secretly feeding the patient coming from? Is that a fact? Is that someone else's personal story?

I would like to know the same thing. To me it sounds ridiculous. But, according to several posters it can and has been done. I really can't comprehend the stupidity it. Especially if GM was involved in the medical field. jmo