Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[meanmaryjean]

BBM: He's a cutie. Former 24 week preemie. Spent his first 15 months of life in the NICU. He's doing really, really well - starting to crawl (which, when you're on the vent is a challenge!), signing. Happy little guy. He'll wean off the vent in a year or so and live happily ever after. He just needs to get bigger. You actually grow new lung tissue until age eight- so we have high hopes for him.

UPDATE: Mom went to get him out of bed after I left this morning (I work nights) and little guy had - for the first time EVER - sat himself up independently!

If you know me- I have three jobs, one in the Pediatric ICU (nearly full time), this little guy (one night a week) and a very, very part-time job in academia. My job with this little guy is by far my favorite! As you might guess.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

UPDATE: Mom went to get him out of bed after I left this morning (I work nights) and little guy had - for the first time EVER - sat himself up independently!

If you know me- I have three jobs, one in the Pediatric ICU (nearly full time), this little guy (one night a week) and a very, very part-time job in academia. My job with this little guy is by far my favorite! As you might guess.

That's so sweet! He and mom are so lucky to have you to help care for him.

It certainly sounds like he is quite the little trooper and will do just fine as he matures.

 

[ceecee30]

UPDATE: Mom went to get him out of bed after I left this morning (I work nights) and little guy had - for the first time EVER - sat himself up independently!



If you know me- I have three jobs, one in the Pediatric ICU (nearly full time), this little guy (one night a week) and a very, very part-time job in academia. My job with this little guy is by far my favorite! As you might guess.

Off topic...

But you pediatric Nurses, Doctors and Staff are amazing..

Thank you for all you do

X x

 

[QueenD]

http://teleutemania.wordpress.com/

This works. You have to scroll down a bit to see the post about Jahi.

Worth seeing for the quote about keeping faith in science...

Wow, is all I can say..........

 

[popsicle]

Thaddeus Martin ‏@Martin8Thaddeus 3h
@ @ @ new clip of #JahiMcMath moving http://instagram.com/p/jnB2YiIps3/

That link doesn't work, it is here and probably from what was given to the court.
http://distilleryvesper0-8.ak.instagram.com/bc916f6c861511e39bfe12806b62c140_101.mp4

 

[Elainera]

Thaddeus Martin ‏@Martin8Thaddeus 3h
@ @ @ new clip of #JahiMcMath moving http://instagram.com/p/jnB2YiIps3/

That link doesn't work, it is here and probably from what was given to the court.
http://distilleryvesper0-8.ak.instagram.com/bc916f6c861511e39bfe12806b62c140_101.mp4

Huh? When was that clip taken? Is that even her?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thaddeus Martin ‏@Martin8Thaddeus 3h
@ @ @ new clip of #JahiMcMath moving http://instagram.com/p/jnB2YiIps3/

That link doesn't work, it is here and probably from what was given to the court.
http://distilleryvesper0-8.ak.instagram.com/bc916f6c861511e39bfe12806b62c140_101.mp4

Gotta admit, I don't understand how she can react to cold stuff like that either.
Seeing that...I wouldn't trust the dx of brain death either.

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[ArianeEmory]

I'll wait for someone more medically knowledgable to weigh in, but I thought the sole-of-foot reaction was the kind of reflex that had to do with the spinal column and not the brain. Which is probably why they're putting the ice on the soles of her feet and not somewhere more obvious, like her arm.

Oh well, strike another blow for anti-science, I guess?

 

[Elainera]

Ariane I think you are right. Reflexes in the legs are generated in the spine.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Certainly everyone would admit it surely would give hope to any parent.

"The examination for brain death is based on response to external stimuli. Since the brain is the organ that feels outside pain, when the brain is dead the patient feels nothing. Before the examination is performed, the physician will have a toxicology test performed to make sure the patient does not have any muscle relaxants in his system, and will check that the patient's body temperature is not extremely abnormal, either of which may reduce neurological reflexes."
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brain-death4.htm


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[Sincerely]

I found this article really helpful to explain brain death...I really don't know what I would do if I were in this position. I know that I would not make it a circus...but, I would not give up on my child until I absolutely knew. In this case...I do believe that Jahi will not recover and needs to be let go. What quality of life does she have? Hanging on is for the family.

WHAT BRAIN DEATH IS NOT

The idea of brain death can be confusing. For example, the new guideline talks about a lack of brain stem reflexes. But exactly what are brain stem reflexes? If a neurologist sits at the bedside of a patient on life support and scratches the sole of her foot with a needle, the patient will probably pull her foot away. Does that mean she isn't brain dead?

Not necessarily because that particular reflex is controlled by the spinal cord and not the brain or brain stem. The brain stem controls certain automatic functions of the body, like breathing, blinking, and swallowing...

http://patients.aan.com/resources/n...ovid.com:/bib/ovftdb/01222928-201006030-00011

Certainly everyone would admit it surely would give hope to any parent.

"The examination for brain death is based on response to external stimuli. Since the brain is the organ that feels outside pain, when the brain is dead the patient feels nothing. Before the examination is performed, the physician will have a toxicology test performed to make sure the patient does not have any muscle relaxants in his system, and will check that the patient's body temperature is not extremely abnormal, either of which may reduce neurological reflexes."
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brain-death4.htm


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[hollye]

Certainly everyone would admit it surely would give hope to any parent.

"The examination for brain death is based on response to external stimuli. Since the brain is the organ that feels outside pain, when the brain is dead the patient feels nothing. Before the examination is performed, the physician will have a toxicology test performed to make sure the patient does not have any muscle relaxants in his system, and will check that the patient's body temperature is not extremely abnormal, either of which may reduce neurological reflexes."
http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brain-death4.htm


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Also from that article...

"Although the patient has a dead brain and dead brain stem, there may be spinal cord reflexes that can be elicited (a knee jerk, for example). In some brain dead patients, when the hand or foot is touched in a particular manner, the touch will elicit a short reflex movement."


I had no idea!


Hollye

 

[Madeleine74]

Not exactly related but there can be random muscle movements in a corpse, that have been documented, like a corpse sitting up. This is due to intestinal gasses and natural ligament stiffening and tension. I don't know how common it is, but it has happened. I don't think anyone would conclude the person is alive if such a thing happened.

But let me ask this: if the most your child ever could do is retract a limb (like a foot) due to some stimuli, would that be enough of a valuable existence to keep them on a ventilator in perpetuity? For me, absolutely not. I would only want what is best for them and if they can't be alive and well then the best thing would be to grant them a peaceful transition.

 

[popsicle]

I think if she had reacted to ice water in her ear it might be more meaningful. jmo

 

[jjenny]

Gotta admit, I don't understand how she can react to cold stuff like that either.
Seeing that...I wouldn't trust the dx of brain death either.

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Spinal cord reflexes still occur in brain dead persons.

"The idea of brain death can be confusing. For example, the new guideline talks about a lack of brain stem reflexes. But exactly what are brain stem reflexes? If a neurologist sits at the bedside of a patient on life support and scratches the sole of her foot with a needle, the patient will probably pull her foot away. Does that mean she isn't brain dead?"

http://patients.aan.com/resources/n...ovid.com:/bib/ovftdb/01222928-201006030-00011

 

[jjenny]

Here is an article about another brain dead child whose parents refused to pull the plug. He was moving his feet which his parents believed were hopeful signs.
His heart stopped a short time thereafter.

"Six-year-old cancer patient Jesse Koochin's condition is "dire" at best, his father acknowledged Sunday, but the boy doctors pronounced brain-dead last week now can move his feet."

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_2429927

 

[popsicle]

Jahi McMath: Could her case change how California determines death?

If Christopher Dolan gets his way, the Jahi McMath case may change how California determines when death occurs.

Dolan, a San Rafael resident who has gained newfound prominence as the attorney for Jahi's family, hopes to mount what may be the nation's first challenge to a law linking end of life to brain death.

Families -- not hospitals, judges or governments -- should decide when treatment stops on a loved one, Dolan argues. And if a family believes life stops when the heart stops, based on religious beliefs, a government should not have the power to interfere with their constitutional right to practice those beliefs.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...i-mcmath-could-her-case-change-how-california

 

[ArianeEmory]

Certainly everyone would admit it surely would give hope to any parent.

But it's a false, uninformed hope. There is no positive spin on this.

 

[popsicle]

Undulating Toe Flexion Sign in Brain Death


http://escholarship.umassmed.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=neurol_bull

 

[Sincerely]

I wonder how he would feel about this if it were him lying there like Jahi (if he were able to feel that is)...take the money away...and the fight goes away!

Jahi McMath: Could her case change how California determines death?

If Christopher Dolan gets his way, the Jahi McMath case may change how California determines when death occurs.

Dolan, a San Rafael resident who has gained newfound prominence as the attorney for Jahi's family, hopes to mount what may be the nation's first challenge to a law linking end of life to brain death.

Families -- not hospitals, judges or governments -- should decide when treatment stops on a loved one, Dolan argues. And if a family believes life stops when the heart stops, based on religious beliefs, a government should not have the power to interfere with their constitutional right to practice those beliefs.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...i-mcmath-could-her-case-change-how-california