Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

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  • #241
McMath attorney: Jahi's family aren't fools; they deserve better than ignorant attacks
Self-interest alone should lead most Americans to thank Nailah Winkfield, Jahi's mother, for her courage.
By Christopher Dolan
January 21, 2014

It has been amazing to see how many people think they have a right to an opinion about this child, this mother, this family and the issues in this case. Self-righteous commenters and commentators who have no firsthand knowledge of the facts or the people involved pretend they can somehow know not only what's best for Jahi but what's best for society in such situations. They take it upon themselves to proclaim what will relieve or prolong the family's suffering, what will desecrate Jahi or honor her, and they feel justified in sharing it with the world in mean-spirited terms.

What happened to Jahi at Children's Hospital Oakland will most likely be a matter of litigation. But if you were Jahi's mother, would you want the doctors and hospital authorities you believed had contributed to — or even caused — your child to be declared "brain dead" making final decisions about her?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#ixzz2qzkhV6QK
 
  • #242
  • #243
Disgusting. This man is in a world of his own. Jmo

Shared with the Japanese, for example. (see article linked above, very interesting!) And many many others for that matter. Certainly not "in a world of his own."
 
  • #244
  • #245
We do know that if there is no blood flow to the brain, brain dies. It does not grow back. These cells die. Brain can not restart because it's no longer exists in the form it once existed. It's completely changed from what it was.

How does anyone know for sure? Are there long term studies? What efforts have been made to measure?
Brains are amazing organs that do rewire and recover from all sorts of trauma, stoke etc and recoveries are often medically unexpected and IMO are unpredictable.


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We do have studies about what happens to the brain after brain death. They are called autopsies.

From: The Paradox of Brain Death, by Pauline W. Chen
While normal brain tissue is firm, a brain that has been dead shows progressive autolysis, a form of biological self-destruction. “It will almost be like soup,” Dr. Harry Vinters, chief of neuropathology at UCLA, recently explained to me. He is the co-author of a major textbook on the pathology of the brain and has performed almost a hundred autopsies on the brain-dead. “It really depends on how long they have been on the ventilator. If they have been on the ventilator for two days, then the brain is grey and softened. But if, for example, a family has had difficulty deciding what they want to do and the patient has been kept on the ventilator for two to three weeks, then there’s tremendous autolysis. The brain gets very swollen, soft, and mushy.” The nerve tissue can become so friable that fragments of brain from the head will break off and float down the spinal column. “Sometimes I’ll be looking at a slide of the spinal cord,” says Vinters, “and I’ll see fragments of cerebellum floating around in the specimen.”

BBM

How can anyone read that and not accept that a brain which has had an absence of blood flow to the degree that all of the brain cells have died could ever be anything but dead?

When people recover from strokes, it's because other areas of the brain which have not infarcted can take over some functions. If the entire brain has infarcted, there is no other brain tissue to take over anything because it's all dead tissue.
 
  • #246
My head just exploded. :scared: :banghead: :facepalm:



Can I charge you for the expense of cleanup since you linked it? :floorlaugh:


I agree with Dolan.



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  • #247
Shared with the Japanese, for example. (see article linked above, very interesting!) And many many others for that matter. Certainly not "in a world of his own."

Clarifying my comment.
I truly believe the human body/brain can do so much more than we know.

My comment is my disgust with the game mr Dolan is playing. He disparages the hospital, but they can not tell their story. He says he did not accept any money, but what agreement does he have with the family for further lawsuits, etc. He says the family wants to be out of the media and we should let them be, but he is again discussing the family with the media.
jMO
 
  • #248
I don't get it. So the idea is that "brain death" (note Dolan's quotes) is just an arbitrary or imaginary condition dreamed up by doctors for the sake of convenience, and hospitals and the state have the obligation to maintain brain dead individuals indefinitely? Because if that's not the argument I don't understand what the argument is.
 
  • #249
We do have studies about what happens to the brain after brain death. They are called autopsies.



BBM

How can anyone read that and not accept that a brain which has had an absence of blood flow to the degree that all of the brain cells have died could ever be anything but dead?

When people recover from strokes, it's because other areas of the brain which have not infarcted can take over some functions. If the entire brain has infarcted, there is no other brain tissue to take over anything because it's all dead tissue.


IMOO Dolan deals with little to no facts when discussing brain death.
 
  • #250
I agree with Dolan.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Uhm, congratulations? :confused:


IMO he's pretty much worthless, should be disbarred, and is only enabling NW and her inability to accept reality.

They made their bed with the media. They can sleep in it.

:moo:
 
  • #251
I don't get it. So the idea is that "brain death" (note Dolan's quotes) is just an arbitrary or imaginary condition dreamed up by doctors for the sake of convenience, and hospitals and the state have the obligation to maintain brain dead individuals indefinitely? Because if that's not the argument I don't understand what the argument is.

Don't forget to throw a few Constitutional Amendments in there as to why the doctors shouldn't be calling the shots on "brain death". :facepalm:
 
  • #252
Question- someone commented that the go fund me site is still up. It asked for $20,000 to transfer Jahi. Now that she has been transferred, and the amount raised is over double the amount requested, shouldn't they close that page? If people wish to donate then they should be able to, BUT shouldn't they open another page? Can't the family be in legal trouble if they use the money for something other than transportation? Would that be considered fraud? I would hate to see a troll get on there and donate just for the purpose of suing them. Karma
 
  • #253
Question- someone commented that the go fund me site is still up. It asked for $20,000 to transfer Jahi. Now that she has been transferred, and the amount raised is over double the amount requested, shouldn't they close that page? If people wish to donate then they should be able to, BUT shouldn't they open another page? Can't the family be in legal trouble if they use the money for something other than transportation? Would that be considered fraud? I would hate to see a troll get on there and donate just for the purpose of suing them. Karma

idk, but the purpose was changed to something far more vague than that quite a while ago.

"All donations will go torwards the fight to keep her on life support."

I don't think I can link it, but y'all know where to find it.

eta: haha, yoda. /s Karma-dy
 
  • #254
Question- someone commented that the go fund me site is still up. It asked for $20,000 to transfer Jahi. Now that she has been transferred, and the amount raised is over double the amount requested, shouldn't they close that page? If people wish to donate then they should be able to, BUT shouldn't they open another page? Can't the family be in legal trouble if they use the money for something other than transportation? Would that be considered fraud? I would hate to see a troll get on there and donate just for the purpose of suing them. Karma

It will cost an enormous amount of money to keep her on life support.
I presume Dolan is thinking that when lawsuits are filed, since she isn't buried, there is no 250k limit. But she is considered legally dead, so he might be in for a surprise.
 
  • #255
I don't get it. So the idea is that "brain death" (note Dolan's quotes) is just an arbitrary or imaginary condition dreamed up by doctors for the sake of convenience, and hospitals and the state have the obligation to maintain brain dead individuals indefinitely? Because if that's not the argument I don't understand what the argument is.

I don't know what exactly he is arguing either, but if this is it:
"Nailah's fight is the fight of a loving mother for her child. It is a fight for privacy in the making of a medical decision. It is a fight for a strongly held belief in the miracles and mercy promised by the Bible."

I'm trying to clarify this -she wants the right to make medical decisions. Does that mean she wants to be able to force others to follow her religious beliefs? Because she was trying to force the hospital and professional staff to go against their beliefs by trying to get the govt to force them to operate (trach).

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#ixzz2r05YAxA1
 
  • #256
I can't believe they're playing the privacy card when uncle Omari was running the basic cable circuit not that long ago. Although it sounds like they've reined him in at this point.
 
  • #257
It will cost an enormous amount of money to keep her on life support.
I presume Dolan is thinking that when lawsuits are filed, since she isn't buried, there is no 250k limit. But she is considered legally dead, so he might be in for a surprise.

I just wonder if Dolan and Jahi's family believe if they can create a big enough media circus a sympathetic jury will fall for whatever claims they make when they file the lawsuit, 250K limit or not. Why else be concerned over public opinion when the media coverage is waning? If the family wants privacy, why write an opinion piece in the LA Times? The media has not been covering this story much since the move to the new facility.

Could it be that the media interest in this story has died down as the negative blowback has increased? If the family is relying on donations to keep up her care at that facility and hoping for good PR going into a lawsuit, they can't be happy if the requests for interviews, etc are decreasing, especially if bad news is on the horizon. I can't help but think Dolan is beginning the PR for announcing the miracle didn't happen and Jahi can finally be buried.
 
  • #258
I just wonder if Dolan and Jahi's family believe if they can create a big enough media circus a sympathetic jury will fall for whatever claims they make when they file the lawsuit, 250K limit or not. Why else be concerned over public opinion when the media coverage is waning? If the family wants privacy, why write an opinion piece in the LA Times?

Could it be that the media interest in this story has died down as the negative blowback has increased? If the family is relying on donations to keep up her care at that facility and hoping for good PR going into a lawsuit, they can't be happy if the requests for interviews, etc are decreasing, especially if bad news is on the horizon. I can't help but think Dolan is beginning the PR for announcing the miracle didn't happen and Jahi can finally be buried.

Many good points here. I was also trying to figure out the strategic meaning behind the emphasis on "privacy" and that would explain it.
 
  • #259
  • #260
I don't know what exactly he is arguing either, but if this is it:
"Nailah's fight is the fight of a loving mother for her child. It is a fight for privacy in the making of a medical decision. It is a fight for a strongly held belief in the miracles and mercy promised by the Bible."

I'm trying to clarify this -she wants the right to make medical decisions. Does that mean she wants to be able to force others to follow her religious beliefs? Because she was trying to force the hospital and professional staff to go against their beliefs by trying to get the govt to force them to operate (trach).

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#ixzz2r05YAxA1

BBM is a skewed argument. In praying for a miracle and mercy promised then every mother and father who sent a son or daughter to war would have them returned unharmed.

Prior to the 1940's the families of people dying from gangrene, typhoid fever, syphilis, bacterial infections prayed in vain for their loved ones to live.

It wasn't until someone prayed for the knowledge to create and produce penicillin did many of those family members survive. The cycle continues in so many ways but the answers people seek is in knowledge. It doesn't mean we like the answers to what we seek.
 
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