Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[BeginnersLuck]

I think Dolan would be much happier, if the lies, misleading articles and fear tactics were allowed to spread via MSM and SM.

It is probably unsettling to him that there are so many that are trying to counteract the lies with education. He thinks the laws are wrong and wants to change them. If the religious exclusion is written in to law everywhere, then society will also be forced to pay for the care of the deceased. Medical providers will be forced to provide care to the deceased.

He also wants the med-mal increased right now. This is another reason he may want others that disagree with this circus, to shut up.

Unfortunately for Dolan, there is also a law called freedom of speech. When Dolan wants to make changes in laws that will affect us all, then he should be prepared for opposition.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I just wonder if Dolan and Jahi's family believe if they can create a big enough media circus a sympathetic jury will fall for whatever claims they make when they file the lawsuit, 250K limit or not. Why else be concerned over public opinion when the media coverage is waning? If the family wants privacy, why write an opinion piece in the LA Times? The media has not been covering this story much since the move to the new facility.

Could it be that the media interest in this story has died down as the negative blowback has increased? If the family is relying on donations to keep up her care at that facility and hoping for good PR going into a lawsuit, they can't be happy if the requests for interviews, etc are decreasing, especially if bad news is on the horizon. I can't help but think Dolan is beginning the PR for announcing the miracle didn't happen and Jahi can finally be buried.

Thanks! I forgot about those reasons!

 

[Donjeta]

Those who attack Nailah's decision and who are "pro-choice" on the issue of abortion should think hard about the fallout from their insistence that the family's personal and private decision about when life ends can and should be overridden by doctors or the state. The same rights that support the choice made by Nailah also support contraceptive rights and abortion rights.

Nailah has eloquently made her own case: "That's my daughter; I love her," she told me. "As long as she is fighting, and God has her heart beating, I will fight with and for her. She needs some time, God needs some time; I've seen what medicine has done, now I want to see what God can do."

Nailah's fight is the fight of a loving mother for her child. It is a fight for privacy in the making of a medical decision. It is a fight for a strongly held belief in the miracles and mercy promised by the Bible.

The theology confuses me a little. God has her heart beating but He currently can't do respiration or the ability to swallow so that's why she needs more time on the ventilator device and the feeding tube provided by modern medicine? In order to see what God can do, hospitals should be required to do everything that medicine could possibly do to maintain her even though medically it is futile? I have read the Bible and while there were promises of mercy I don't remember it promising the miracle of resurrection for every dead person. It was only a select few that Jesus raised, most people in the Bible just got buried and the family had to grieve.

I'm surprised that Dolan didn't manage to tie this in with the right to carry arms in there somehow.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#axzz2qzqCYamT

I don't think that it can ever be a completely private decision when life ends because
a) it's not really up to us most of the time, and
b) the society has a legitimate legal interest in whether we are alive or dead. It's not just a decision that affects one's own immediate family and nobody else, it has larger implications.

 

[jjenny]

The theology confuses me a little. God has her heart beating but He currently can't do respiration or the ability to swallow so that's why she needs more time on the ventilator device and the feeding tube provided by modern medicine? In order to see what God can do, hospitals should be required to do everything that medicine could possibly do to maintain her even though medically it is futile? I have read the Bible and while there were promises of mercy I don't remember it promising the miracle of resurrection for every dead person. It was only a select few that Jesus raised, most people in the Bible just got buried and the family had to grieve.

I'm surprised that Dolan didn't manage to tie this in with the right to carry arms in there somehow.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#axzz2qzqCYamT

And if they want to see what God can do, why don't they turn the ventillator off? God doesn't need a ventillator to perform a miracle.

 

[Donjeta]

In New Jersey and New York, for example, there is accommodation for those who do not accept "brain death" as the appropriate criterion. According to New Jersey law, "the death of an individual shall not be declared upon the basis of neurological criteria … when such a declaration would violate the personal religious beliefs or moral convictions of that individual." The McMath family's position isn't ridiculous or unheard of. There would have been no legal battle if Jahi had had her tonsils out in New Jersey.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#ixzz2r17x9WsD


Is it just me or has Dolan abandoned the line of argument that Jahi is not brain dead, she's improving and responding to treatment, and everybody was wrong about her except Dr. Byrne? From what he writes here, and what he doesn't write, it appears to me that he acknowledges that the only indication to continue Jahi's treatment is a religious one, not a medical one.

In that case it should be churches and religious charities providing for the treatment imo, not hospitals, health insurance and healthcare. IMO medical ethics require that the finite resources are allocated to living (medically speaking) individuals who can be medically expected to benefit from treatment. Faith in divine intervention can be a worthy pursuit but it is not in the medical domain and divine interventions do not occur so reliably that medical decisions can be based on the expectation of miracles happening.

If I believe that my right eye or my right hand offends me (see Matthew, chapter 5 http://bartleby.com/108/40/5.html) I can not expect medical professionals to assist me in gouging the eye off and amputating the hand against their medical ethics, even though it's my religious right to believe so.

I have no objection to religious exemptions to the brain death statutes if that is what voters democratically decide but IMO if there is no reason to believe that Jahi is not brain dead and legally and medically deceased, other than Nailah Winkfield's degree of religious confidence that God will be merciful and that His mercy will be manifested as the miraculous resurrection of her daughter shortly hereafter, the family and the lawyer were totally out of line when they accused CHO and its professionals of trying to murder Jahi out of profit, when all they were doing was adhere to the commonly accepted medical and legal definition, according to which she was already dead.

 

[SophieRose]

It will cost an enormous amount of money to keep her on life support.
I presume Dolan is thinking that when lawsuits are filed, since she isn't buried, there is no 250k limit. But she is considered legally dead, so he might be in for a surprise.

But since he says he's not doing the medical malpractice lawsuit, who is going to be willing to take on the case?

 

[Donjeta]

But since he says he's not doing the medical malpractice lawsuit, who is going to be willing to take on the case?

Even if it's not going to be that profitable for the lawyer financially I think they won't have too much trouble finding someone who is willing to do it for the media exposure.

 

[wendiesan]

But since he says he's not doing the medical malpractice lawsuit, who is going to be willing to take on the case?

JMO, but just because CD says he's not doing the medmal lawsuit doesn't mean that someone else in his lawfirm won't take it on. Neither does it prevent him from having a change of heart and returning to that part of the case at some other time as an advisor or consultant. Since this seems to be a multi-faceted case which is also about religious rights and civil rights, it is possible that he will be working on those aspects of the family's case.

 

[SophieRose]

JMO, but just because CD says he's not doing the medmal lawsuit doesn't mean that someone else in his lawfirm won't take it on. Neither does it prevent him from having a change of heart and returning to that part of the case at some other time as an advisor or consultant. Since this seems to be a multi-faceted case which is also about religious rights and civil rights, it is possible that he will be working on those aspects of the family's case.

I do think he's going to continue on with the federal part of the case, that's been filed, but it is separate from the medical malpractice lawsuit. There's a limitation on filing a wrongful death medical malpractice claim, two years from the time of death.

 

[SophieRose]

Even if it's not going to be that profitable for the lawyer financially I think they won't have too much trouble finding someone who is willing to do it for the media exposure.

Do you think another attorney would try to go after long-term care expenses? That's what some people are claiming what this is all about.

In this CHO case where the girl was left brain-damaged in 2011 after a tonsillectomy, the family sued three months after the incident, settled in Nov 2013 with the hospital and settled earlier with doctors but doesn't say when.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24799118/jahi-mcmath-2-years-ago-girl-wound-up

 

[Donjeta]

Is it even possible to for them to be awarded long term care expenses when she's got a death certificate, and the medical consensus was that no further treatment was indicated and organ support should be terminated? She was transferred to another facility for continued care not out of necessity (because all the disabled people need care) but because it was the family choice to continue treating a deceased person.

 

[SophieRose]

Is it even possible to for them to be awarded long term care expenses when she's got a death certificate, and the medical consensus was that no further treatment was indicated and organ support should be terminated? She was transferred to another facility for continued care not out of necessity (because all the disabled people need care) but because it was the family choice to continue treating a deceased person.

I can't see how the family could, but that's what people have been posting here and in comments sections.

Look at this, maybe an attorney will try for punitive damages. Juries rarely award them, though.

http://www.whiteandwilliams.com/media/alert/18_TortSourceBeitzArticle.pdf

Even though these claims are only viable in the limited circumstances of the most egregious behavior—for example, where a dying patient's cries for help are repeatedly ignored—experienced plaintiffs counsel know that the threat of a punitive damages claim can shake a physician's resolve and significantly strengthen a plaintiff's settlement posture.

 

[threecrazykids]

And if they want to see what God can do, why don't they turn the ventillator off? God doesn't need a ventillator to perform a miracle.

To paraphrase NW's interview "she's just resting".

When I was listening to her talk (IMO) NW honestly thinks that Jahi herself has miraculously "shut her brain off" in an effort to heal the rest of her body. That her body is focusing on healing from the most internal cell out - so it will be a long time before the healing to her brain begins. She just needs time...that's all, just time to rest and recover at her own pace. Jahi's focus right now simply isn't healing her brain...it's fixing the rest of the damage to her body that CHO did and one miraculous day she will suddenly develop brain waves again once the healing of her brain is the main focus of this miraculous recovery.

:facepalm:

 

[Nore]

Many good points here. I was also trying to figure out the strategic meaning behind the emphasis on "privacy" and that would explain it.

-------------------
I agree. I feel if they keep asking for money they'd better let someone know what is going on. I would never donate to any cause where I am completely unaware of the out come. Is she breathing on her own? sitting up, talking, eating, ready to go home? I am getting P O'd..She has been dead over a month. Time to pull the plug. Give the child the rest she deserves.:banghead:
:loveyou:

 

[Nore]

To paraphrase NW's interview "she's just resting".

When I was listening to her talk (IMO) NW honestly thinks that Jahi herself has miraculously "shut her brain off" in an effort to heal the rest of her body. That her body is focusing on healing from the most internal cell out - so it will be a long time before the healing to her brain begins. She just needs time...that's all, just time to rest and recover at her own pace. Jahi's focus right now simply isn't healing her brain...it's fixing the rest of the damage to her body that CHO did and one miraculous day she will suddenly develop brain waves again once the healing of her brain is the main focus of this miraculous recovery.

:facepalm:

----------
OMG! they should give it a rest! God HAS answered her prayers, just as he did mine. God said NO!!lease:

 

[Elley Mae]

The theology confuses me a little. God has her heart beating but He currently can't do respiration or the ability to swallow so that's why she needs more time on the ventilator device and the feeding tube provided by modern medicine? In order to see what God can do, hospitals should be required to do everything that medicine could possibly do to maintain her even though medically it is futile? I have read the Bible and while there were promises of mercy I don't remember it promising the miracle of resurrection for every dead person. It was only a select few that Jesus raised, most people in the Bible just got buried and the family had to grieve.

I'm surprised that Dolan didn't manage to tie this in with the right to carry arms in there somehow.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#axzz2qzqCYamT

I don't think that it can ever be a completely private decision when life ends because
a) it's not really up to us most of the time, and
b) the society has a legitimate legal interest in whether we are alive or dead. It's not just a decision that affects one's own immediate family and nobody else, it has larger implications.

Donjeta thanks for the link.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#axzz2qzqCYamT

snipped

I have represented them for free — starting 10 hours before the first order to turn off Jahi's ventilator at Children's Hospital Oakland

bbm, strange thing to say beings you are doing this for free.jmo


Sometimes things said don't make any sense to me. Could anyone break down what he means by this.

snipped

The same rights that support the choice made by Nailah also support contraceptive rights and abortion rights.

 

[Nore]

Do you think another attorney would try to go after long-term care expenses? That's what some people are claiming what this is all about.

In this CHO case where the girl was left brain-damaged in 2011 after a tonsillectomy, the family sued three months after the incident, settled in Nov 2013 with the hospital and settled earlier with doctors but doesn't say when.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24799118/jahi-mcmath-2-years-ago-girl-wound-up

----------
The difference is, this little girl is brain damaged. Jahi is brain dead. In case I would have had the anesthetist (sp) looked into. I cant see health ins. of any kind paying for a dead person. If they do, its revoltin'!! Jahis' body no doubt has decomp already. It will continue to decay. IMO.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Donjeta thanks for the link.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/comm...-death-20140121,0,5121800.story#axzz2qzqCYamT

snipped

I have represented them for free — starting 10 hours before the first order to turn off Jahi's ventilator at Children's Hospital Oakland

bbm, strange thing to say beings you are doing this for free.jmo


Sometimes things said don't make any sense to me. Could anyone break down what he means by this.

snipped

The same rights that support the choice made by Nailah also support contraceptive rights and abortion rights.

Honestly, with the hot-button political mishmash he threw in there, such as derisively putting "pro-choice" in quotes (much like "brain dead"), I feel that he's basically still just stirring the pot and trying to misdirect attention from Jahi's actual condition.

 

[Cubby]

Honestly, with the hot-button political mishmash he threw in there, such as derisively putting "pro-choice" in quotes (much like "brain dead"), I feel that he's basically still just stirring the pot and trying to misdirect attention from Jahi's actual condition.

That's exactly what he is doing. Not only that, but when he threw in something about unborn babies and slaves, it's pretty clear he is willing to do whatever manipulating is necessary - including dumbing down those people who are not necessarily going to educate themselves to Jahi's situation. As a Catholic myself, it is sickening to sit back and watch someone claiming to be a Catholic behaving as he is by trying to mesh two clearly different issues.

 

[Softail]

Today is 41 days since Jahi died on December 12th.