Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[Tulessa]

Thank you so much.

 

[Tulessa]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...er-Says-of-Brain-Dead-Daughter-252700851.html

This is the latest that I've seen.

That was a hard read.....

 

[SoSueMe]

Please, let's stop the attacks on each other and just discuss the facts of the case.

Thank you!

 

[ladonna]

Help..

I keep reading in comments under some of the media links that there is a hearing on April 7th....If true, what is it about?

tia

 

[Karmady]

Help..

I keep reading in comments under some of the media links that there is a hearing on April 7th....If true, what is it about?

tia

Are they old comments. There was supposed to be a status conference in the fed case on 4/2, but that case is closed now.

eta: If anyone wants to check the docket themselves, you can do it here:

https://publicrecords.alameda.courts.ca.gov/NameSearch

I'm not willing to pony up even a buck for this one, though

 

[ladonna]

Are they old comments. There was supposed to be a status conference in the fed case on 4/2, but that case is closed now.

eta: If anyone wants to check the docket themselves, you can do it here:

https://publicrecords.alameda.courts.ca.gov/NameSearch

I'm not willing to pony up even a buck for this one, though

No the comments are recent...under the latest link posted up thread.

Are you saying the public records aren't free?

 

[Karmady]

No the comments are recent...under the latest link posted up thread.

Are you saying the public records aren't free?

from the link

Search FeesCredits purchased on an account will remain on that account until used.
Credits are not refundable or transferable
The fee is $1.00 for one Search by Name credit.
Fees will not be charged for a search that returns zero results.
There is a limit of 5 search credits ($5.00)

 

[ladonna]

from the link

Search FeesCredits purchased on an account will remain on that account until used.
Credits are not refundable or transferable
The fee is $1.00 for one Search by Name credit.
Fees will not be charged for a search that returns zero results.
There is a limit of 5 search credits ($5.00)

Thanks

I'm almost positive though that the court records could be here at Websleuths, no?

Anyhow, if there was such a hearing could it have something to do with CHO and a malpractise suit?

 

[Karmady]

Thanks

I'm almost positive though that the court records could be here at Websleuths, no?

Anyhow, if there was such a hearing could it have something to do with CHO and a malpractise suit?

doubt it. haven't heard anything about a malpractice complaint even being filed yet.

 

[ladonna]

doubt it. haven't heard anything about a malpractice complaint even being filed yet.

Thanks for your help.

FWIW, this is one of the comments that led me to ask about a hearing.

I want to see how they prove she is alive on the 7th of April, the next court date.

 

[Karmady]

Thanks for your help.

FWIW, this is one of the comments that led me to ask about a hearing.

I want to see how they prove she is alive on the 7th of April, the next court date.

My assumption is that the commenter is either referring to a past date that has since been cancelled because both cases have been resolved, or is just wrong lol

eta: I found both the state and federal dockets and there are no calendar dates on either.

Not sure if you can see it, but here's the link to the state court calendar list for this case:

http://apps.alameda.courts.ca.gov/domainweb/html/casesumbody.html

Or you can search it by case no. RP13707598 (case no. searches are free, name searches are not) here:

http://apps.alameda.courts.ca.gov/domainweb/html/casesumbody.html

The fed ct. is a pay cite, so I can't link it. So there are no fed ct. dates imo

 

[Steft50]

We don’t allow open-pyre cremation, which is practiced by many cultures.

Severly snipped for single clarification:

Just a FYI on the open-pyre ceremony. There is a single county in Colorado that permits this with county residents only.

 

[SeekingJana]

From this link http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...er-Says-of-Brain-Dead-Daughter-252700851.html

IF those are Jahi's nails shown in the photo, and IF there isn't a base layer of pink polish, then her peripheral circulation and O2 perfusion looks good " to the eye" as far as this one marker of perfusion goes. Obviously, we do not have benefit of any O2/CO2 sensors.

IF her mom is truthful about the vent. being set to room air ( usually stated as 21-28% FiO2, depending upon the elevation from sea level) then again, she's perfusing well, apparently.

IF her mom is truthful about no meds. for her blood pressure or " nothing to maintain any functions", then I take it to mean she's off the Vasopressin, and I never expected that to ever happen. I have seen it stop being effective, usually with a fatal outcome.

For the first time, I'm having a bit of professional curiosity about how the basic functioning can seem to improve vs. deteriorate over 3 months, and I am not addressing the issue of " movement" because I definitely know what Lazarus sign is and there are no videos of Jahi to compare one to the other. IF the interview was correct and not spin, delusion or misguided hope, then I have many more questions than ever. I have never observed this type of thing which the mother is saying, not once... in many years. Nothing about brain dead patients improve over time, they just don't.

 

[MyBelle]

Severly snipped for single clarification:

Just a FYI on the open-pyre ceremony. There is a single county in Colorado that permits this with county residents only.

Thank you. Jahi's case was about religious beliefs from the beginning, imo. It baffles me that some want to argue their religion played no part.

Pyres are used for the cremation in Hinduism & Sikhism. Vikings disposed of their dead with funeral pyres.

A group in Crestone, Colorado, the Crestone End of Life Project, has done the research, obtained the necessary legal permissions and created a permanent cement pyre structure to perform around 12 “open-air cremations” a year.

http://thefuneralsite.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/cremation-by-funeral-pyre-now-available-in-the-usa/

 

[al66pine]

Respectfully snipped for focus and BBM:

Thank you. Jahi's case was about religious beliefs from the beginning, imo. It baffles me that some want to argue their religion played no part.....

It's possible Jahi's mother's religious beliefs may initially have sparked her efforts against the hosp, with the atty later fanning the flames.
It's also possible that the judge's rulings re TRO, etc. may have bn subtly or greatly influenced by his personal religious beliefs or his thoughts about Jahi's mother's religious beliefs,

But judge's actual order does not address religion.
Others provided link.

 

[MyBelle]

Respectfully snipped for focus and BBM:


It's possible Jahi's mother's religious beliefs may initially have sparked her efforts against the hosp, with the atty later fanning the flames.
It's also possible that the judge's rulings re TRO, etc. may have bn subtly or greatly influenced by his personal religious beliefs or his thoughts about Jahi's mother's religious beliefs,

But judge's actual order does not address religion.
Others provided link.

The mother's religious belief were part of the initial proceeding. Not sure why you interpret that to be "fanning the flames."

The Judge's actual words addressed their faith. The only fanning of flames I've seen in this case are by those who ridicule the mother for practicing her faith.

JMO

 

[joypath]

Yes. Was surprised to see this initially, because of my earlier arguments about the autopsy thing. But then I realized that it makes sense because a coroner is not required to do an autopsy or determine cause of death. A coroner can also determine cause of death from circumstances and not perform an autopsy. So he was able to declare her dead and determine when it occurred based on medical evidence, but could not definitively determine the cause because he couldn't do an autopsy against the family's wishes, so the certificate is incomplete.

Just to address a few misconceptions: a cause of death is a medical opinion as to the pathophysiological reason why there is a cessation of viability. The death certificate has a section where this/these facts are recorded:
" The cause-of- death statement contains two parts, appropriately named Part I and Part II.
Part I A. Due to, or as a consequence of:------------------------------------
B. Due to, or as a consequence of:.-----------------------------------
C. Part II. OTHER SIGNIFICANT CONDITIONS: Conditions contributing to death but not resulting in the underlying cause of death in Part I---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part I is designed so that a sequence of conditions leading to death may be reported. Part II is for reporting conditions that pre-existed or co-existed and contributed to death, but did not result in the the cause reported in Part I. Part I will be considered first. It is formatted so that sequential information is reported with ONE CONDITION per line, starting with the most recent condition on the top line and going backward in time on progressively lower lines. " (reference: CAP: Medical Causes of Death Manual)

BBM: The coroner or medical examiner determines IF an autopsy will be performed, the family does NOT have "veto" power.

This certificate is incomplete because IMHO the MANNER of death has NOT been determined (choices are: natural, accident, suicide, homicide or undetermined). The reporters have been using CAUSE of death as equal to and the same as MANNER of death, again IMHO.

IMHO, the section where MOD is documented probably states, "undetermined, pending post mortem examination" and returning the body when the vent is removed or when the cardiac function ceases, which ever comes first, was a condition of release.

 

[Karmady]

The mother's religious belief were part of the initial proceeding. Not sure why you interpret that to be "fanning the flames."

The Judge's actual words addressed their faith. The only fanning of flames I've seen in this case are by those who ridicule the mother for practicing her faith.

JMO

I think the problem is that saying religion was "part of" the proceeding suggests that it had anything to do with the outcome in State court. Which it didn't per the Judge's decision and order. The freedom of religion issues could have been addressed in the Federal Court action, but that's been dismissed. So, yeah, it was "raised," but that doesn't mean anything. The judge did not rule that Jahi could be moved or kept on life support for any reason having anything to do with religion. As someone else mentioned, he expressed his personal sentiments on the record. Right now, the law of the case is that Jahi is dead and needn't be kept on life support regardless of her mother's religious beliefs.

jmo

 

[al66pine]

Snipped for focus:

...
The Judge's actual words addressed their faith.
JMO

Respectfully, are we looking at the same docs? As this is being stated as a fact,
presumably by the judge in order or other written ruling,
LINK please.

To refresh my memory re various ct-filed docs I've previously read,
I'm checking the law school professor's website, w links to ct docs
for Winkfield v Oakland Childrens Hosp (Jahi McMath):
http://thaddeuspope.com/futilitycases.html

Anyone?
Thx in adv.

 

[Karmady]

Snipped for focus:


Respectfully, are we looking at the same docs? As this is being stated as a fact,
presumably by the judge in order or other written ruling,
LINK please.

To refresh my memory re various ct-filed docs I've previously read,
I'm checking the law school professor's website, w links to ct docs
for Winkfield v Oakland Childrens Hosp (Jahi McMath):
http://thaddeuspope.com/futilitycases.html

Anyone?
Thx in adv.

Here is MyBelle's link to the quote. No doubt the Judge said that, imo. But also no doubt it was not the basis for his ruling. Nor is it part of his ruling. He expressed his personal condolences.

"This has been very, very hard on you," Grillo told the family as he made his ruling. "No one anywhere would wish this to happen to anyone. ... I hope you find some comfort in your religion."

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...ults-at-closed


jmo