Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #9

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #141
J would not have needed to get any grades or credits to be socially promoted to high school. Kids are no longer failed or kept back a grade. However, in h.s., although students will still get moved ahead, they begin to accumulate credits toward graduation. J would be able to be considered a student and moved with her class but would not graduate.

However, knowing this case, it would not surprise me in four years to learn J had been given an honorary diploma.
 
  • #142
J would not have needed to get any grades or credits to be socially promoted to high school. Kids are no longer failed or kept back a grade. However, in h.s., although students will still get moved ahead, they begin to accumulate credits toward graduation. J would be able to be considered a student and moved with her class but would not graduate.

However, knowing this case, it would not surprise me in four years to learn J had been given an honorary diploma.


J is not able to be considered a high school student- she is legally deceased. A deceased person can not be enrolled, nor attend class.

However, knowing this case, it would not surprise me in four years to learn J had been given an honorary diploma
 
  • #143
I can hardly wait for future landmarks in the process of Jahi 'blossoming into a real teenager' and later a real young woman:

--her first date (NW can give her a mani/pedi, put a little make-up on her 'flawless' skin and dress her up in a cute outfit that she can wear now that she's lost so much weight.
--her prom, see above.
--her participation in the Glee Club.
--her high school graduation.

I mean, at what point does society stop saying, "Oh, this poor family needs time to grieve and accept their daughter's death" and start saying "they are treating Jahi like Brain-Dead Barbie and it is creepy and disrespectful."
 
  • #144
When I was in 8th grade, the boy who sat just in front of me in science class committed suicide. That was in 1960. The following spring, we received our 8th grade diplomas. At the end of the ceremony, we were asked to remember our fallen classmate and said a prayer (then legal).

We were the last class to graduate from 8th grade. After that, the school switched to the "junior high" concept. K-6, 7-9, 10-12. Our class ended up being one of the great ones, perhaps due to the fact that we were "top dogs" in our last year in elementary school (K-8) and the next year "top dogs" in Junior High (7-9). That leadership and strength led to us being the leaders even in 10th and 11th grades. Nobody could push us around and we are still remembered with awe.

What about our little friend lost too early? We honored him in our Senior Year Book with a lovely memorial page at the very end. Our class will soon be celebrating our 50th reunion. We've had one every 2 years. At every one, on the table at the entry is a special little memorial to him, still with the 8th grade picture.

Nobody asked us to do this, it what was and still is, in our hearts.

I'm upset that Jahi's family is making a demand for an honorary diploma. While I have no problem with that, it would have been much nicer if the family had let the school come up with an appropriate way to honor Jahi and/or her memory. Much better, it should have been Jahi's classmates who came up with an idea of their own.

On our part, it was all what we, his classmates wanted to do to honor him, not what his parents demanded we do.
 
  • #145
…and right on cue, the media is back in the game. DC's CBS affiliate, WUSA 9, just posted about this on Facebook.

Fine, she gets her diploma and another round of media circus play… I just hope that school isn't still telling those kids that if they pray hard enough, Jahi will wake up one day. (yeah, I'm still bitter over that… guilt tripping those kids into believing that if they prayed hard enough they could save Jahi was SICK.)
 
  • #146
J is not able to be considered a high school student- she is legally deceased. A deceased person can not be enrolled, nor attend class.

However, knowing this case, it would not surprise me in four years to learn J had been given an honorary diploma

http://www.mercurynews.com/educatio...-jahi-mcmath-getting-diploma-8th-grade-family

J, a deceased person, just got the diploma; family got what they wanted. I'm guessing they could insist J be promoted to h.s. This could be another fiasco.
 
  • #147
Jahi's family seems to always get exactly what they want. No doubt this is the reason that they are convinced that Jahi will eventually awaken and blossom into an amazing teenager. :moo:

BBM - Exactly! And, someone needs to put their foot down to this family's
bullying demands ... and soon! JMO
 
  • #148
  • #149
I saw this on a yahoo news page. I wonder does this number have any meaning?


Her family has fought in state and federal court to keep her on life support. McMath was then taken to a long-term care facility. [ID:nL2N0KG1KO
 
  • #150
^ Hmmm- interesting Nore- I have no idea. Someone here surely will though!
 
  • #151
Googled the numbers and got this:

Brain-dead California teen to get school diploma: family

Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:08am EDT

(Reuters) - A California girl who was declared brain-dead after a tonsillectomy in December will receive an honorary diploma during her school's eighth grade graduation, her family said on Wednesday.

The case has drawn international attention and the support of pro-life groups, including one founded by the family of Terri Schiavo, a Florida woman who died in 2005 after a 15-year battle over whether to keep her body alive in a persistent vegetative state...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/12/us-usa-braindead-california-idUSKBN0EN0DD20140612
 
  • #152
BBM - Exactly! And, someone needs to put their foot down to this family's
bullying demands ... and soon! JMO

I am sure Social Security will if they file for disability.
 
  • #153
I am sure Social Security will if they file for disability.

OMG! File for Disability! Could they do that? Would they do that? :thud:
 
  • #154
... Jahi’s uncle, Omari Sealey, said today that the school initially was hesitant to give Jahi a diploma, but after he alerted news outlets to the family’s conflict with the school, school officials decided to give her the diploma. ...

...
Sealey said that he thinks the media attention had an effect on the school’s decision, particularly because the school is in danger of closing — its petition to have its charter renewed was denied by the Oakland school board late last month:
“If you don’t want a bunch of cameras and a bunch of activity, just give her an honorary diploma.”
... Sealey said today that it has been a while since he has been to visit Jahi, but that she has motor functions and responds to voice commands:
“We ask her to move something, she’ll move it.”
Omari Sealey wrote on Instagram Wednesday:
“As long as she continues to progress every day like she has been doing there is nothing any one can say to make our faith waver.”
http://sfbay.ca/2014/06/12/jahi-mcmath-to-receive-8th-grade-diploma/
 
  • #155
... Jahi’s uncle, Omari Sealey, said today that the school initially was hesitant to give Jahi a diploma, but after he alerted news outlets to the family’s conflict with the school, school officials decided to give her the diploma. ...

...
Sealey said that he thinks the media attention had an effect on the school’s decision, particularly because the school is in danger of closing — its petition to have its charter renewed was denied by the Oakland school board late last month:
“If you don’t want a bunch of cameras and a bunch of activity, just give her an honorary diploma.”
... Sealey said today that it has been a while since he has been to visit Jahi, but that she has motor functions and responds to voice commands:
“We ask her to move something, she’ll move it.”
Omari Sealey wrote on Instagram Wednesday:
“As long as she continues to progress every day like she has been doing there is nothing any one can say to make our faith waver.”
http://sfbay.ca/2014/06/12/jahi-mcmath-to-receive-8th-grade-diploma/

Let me get this straight. According to Uncle, he is able to communicate with his niece, and she responds to his voice commands, and can move her body, physically. And yet, he has not visited her in awhile? :waitasec:

If she were truly making such a miraculous recovery, wouldn't he want to go visit her?
 
  • #156
I can't believe this tragedy continues on and on and on. That poor girl. The family sickens me. Of course I had compassion at first but I lost it for them long ago.

They are not honoring Jahi's memory, they are tarnishing and making a mockery of it :(

RIP Jahi (whenever your family decides to let you, that is)
 
  • #157
All I can say is that it's been six months since the tragedy. Can you imagine what it's really like with J?
 
  • #158
If she responds to voice commands, she's made medical history and should have neurologists swarming over her to see how this happened.
 
  • #159
I like the way Uncle Omari basically admits they blackmailed the school into giving her a diploma. I guess we'll be seeing a new fight in fall for her to be enrolled for the new year. Or else we'll hear she's being homeschooled.

And once again: they're telling school-age kids she's alive. That's sick. There is no equivocating at this point. They are pushing a truly twisted agenda.

And yes, if she was moving body parts on request, the family would have that video all over YouTube, stat. It would be money in the bank.
 
  • #160
I do believe Jahi's body is capable of movement, and likely is moving, but just not in the manner that Omari Sealey and Nailah Winkfield have interpreted.

I have written a longish article for another site reviewing Dr. Alan Shewmon's work, but am not able to publish it at the moment. It's kind of too long for a post here, but I'll hit some of the highlights for those interested.

Dr. D. Alan Shewmon is a prominent Professor of Pediatric Neurology at UCLA Medical School. While some of his ideas about “somatic integration” are controversial among his Neurology peers, I think many would also agree that Dr. Shewmon’s academic curiosity about the continued function of the body organ systems in somatic-supported brain dead individuals has contributed greatly to the very scarce fund of clinical research on the brain dead. HIs 1998 published meta analysis of all available brain dead patients who had received somatic support is of particular significance, IMO, as it outlines the same pattern of events in all cases reviewed that we have seen in the past 6 months with Jahi McMath's extended somatic support.

This is what he described about the boy, "TK", who had brain death at age 4 from meningitis, and received somatic support (ventilator care, tube feedings, and periodic antibiotics and IV support during hospitalizations). He observed spinal mediated movements as such in approximately 1998, when TK was 18 years old:

So he and all the other patients were very unstable in the beginning. They required pressor medications. But they were able to wean off the pressor medications, and he remained stable in terms of self-sustained blood pressure on his own. He could tolerate a sitting position, which indicates some degree of autonomic control of the blood pressure. So his blood pressure didn't plummet from blood pooling into the legs upon sitting.

So the organism reacts to these environmental stressors in a coordinated manner. Let me now show you his video. He has hyperactive reflexes. He has what we call a triple flexion response where you elicit this Babinski reflex, and the entire legs at hip, knee, and ankle will withdraw.

And what I think is quite interesting in a few other segments that will briefly come is when I pinch his shoulder the leg will move. So there's integration within the spinal cord across levels of spinal cord. I don't think such movements have any survival value, but it's a sign that the spinal cord is doing a lot of integration there, including autonomic integration, and that's what's important in the somatic organism. So when he's uncovered he did get goose bumps, and he had mottling of the skin.

https://bioethicsarchive.georgetown.edu/pcbe/transcripts/nov07/session5.html

The important, take home message, is that for all of the cases he has reviewed of prolonged somatic support in a brain death situation (not comatose, or PVS-- clearly brain dead), there is a period of spinal shock, exactly similar to what is seen clinically in very high spinal cord injuries. Then a period of autonomic and spinal cord stabilization. I think that is likely what is being seen in Jahi's situation, and what is described by the family-- that she maintains her temperature with blankets, has weaned to room air concentrations of oxygen, and exhibits movement that is consistent with spinal cord reflexive activity. Their "interpretation" that she moves in response to voice commands is of high suspicion, and would have to be validated by specialists for me to give any credit to that as truthful.

The other take away message is that for the patients Dr. Shewmon has studied in his meta-analysis, there are about 2 important milestones in the time period of somatic support where cardiac activity stops. One point is around 2-3 months, the other is at 6 months to one year. (See the scatter plots within the article.)

Here is the abstract:

Article abstract-Objective: One rationale for equating “brain death” (BD) with death is that it reduces the body to a mere collection of organs, as evidenced by purported imminence of asystole despite maximal therapy. To test this hypothesis, cases of prolonged survival were collected and examined for factors influencing survival capacity. Methods: Formal diagnosis of BD with survival of 1 week or longer. More than 12,200 sources yielded approximately 175 cases meeting selection criteria; 56 had sufficient information for meta-analysis. Diagnosis was judged reliable if standard criteria were described or physicians made formal declarations. Data were analyzed by means of Kaplan-Meier curves, with treatment withdrawals as “censored” data, compared by log-rank test. Results: Survival probability over time decreased exponentially in two phases, with initial half-life of 2 to 3 months, followed at 1 year by slow decline to more than 14 years. Survival capacity correlated inversely with age. Independently, primary brain pathology was associated with longer survival than were multisystem etiologies. Initial hemodynamic instability tended to resolve gradually; some patients were successfully discharged on ventilators to nursing facilities or even to their homes. Conclusions: The tendency to asystole in BD can be transient and is attributable more to systemic factors than to absence of brain function per se. If BD is to be equated with death, it must be on some basis more plausible than loss of somatic integrative unity. NEUROLOGY 1998;51:1538-1545

http://www.uned-illesbalears.net/Tablas/vida5.pdf

Of course, none of us know how long Jahi's heart can continue, but given the results of the meta-analysis, and the circumstances of her brain death (presumably anoxia secondary to either airway obstruction, or cardiac arrest, or both, but not multi system trauma or disease), and her relatively youthful age at brain death, it seems likely we could predict her heart to continue up to a year, "or so", since her body has maintained cardiac function beyond the first 2-3 month period.

Oh-- thought I'd add this, because interpreting scientific literature can be challenging.

"What is a meta analysis?"

In statistics a meta-analysis refers to methods that focus on contrasting and combining results from different studies, in the hope of identifying patterns among study results, sources of disagreement among those results, or other interesting relationships that may come to light in the context of multiple studies.

More generally there are other differences between the studies that need to be allowed for, but the general aim of a meta-analysis is to more powerfully estimate the true effect size as opposed to a less precise effect size derived in a single study under a given single set of assumptions and conditions. A meta-analysis therefore gives a thorough summary of several studies that have been done on the same topic, and provides the reader with extensive information on whether an effect exists and what size that effect has.

Meta analysis can be thought of as "conducting research about research."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-analysis
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
121
Guests online
1,025
Total visitors
1,146

Forum statistics

Threads
632,395
Messages
18,625,794
Members
243,133
Latest member
nikkisanchez
Back
Top