Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[Bonepile]

It never, ever, ever, ever looked like a suicide to me. No effin' way. I would say it looked like an assassination pure and simple. I've never understood how the suicide assumption took off from a logical perspective.

If my recollection is correct 10 investigators were first on the case including an asian woman investigator and how the "suicide assumption took off" is simply beyond my comprehension, but then this is the same "team" that left her body uncovered for 13 hours so quite bluntly I did not expect much from them from the get-go and they sure proved me right. And if I did not expect myself to be banned from this Forum ... I would express that in slightly stronger language.

 

[bourne]

My guess is a mistake. From what I read on wikipedia, the two versions of a movie (1960) and (2010) have different plots. 1960 version does have a young son dying by falling down the stairs.
2010 version has a housemaid committing suicide by hanging herself and setting herself on fire.
The parallels to what actually happened to RZ are spooky.

Thanks, I did not know that the first version had a young son falling off staircase and dying! I wonder whether the version of "The Housemaid" found in the Spreckels mansion was the original or the remake...

Spooky and very telling that certain posters might have known about "The Housemaid" video PRIOR to its inclusion in Ann Rule's book! This leads me to believe that these same posters' constant insistence on calling Rebecca a "babysitter" ever since last July 2011 was their way of luring us and investigators/Ann Rule to find the "Housemaid" video.

These posters did not want to outright "out" themselves as being the murderers, so they purposefully use the term "babysitter" instead of "housemaid" in reference to Rebecca.

 

[bourne]

Hi KZ!

First, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. It is always greatly appreciated.

I have always believed Rebecca was alive when she was dropped. In my opinion, what you have stated in layman terms supports this theory.

Could Rebecca have been hoisted up alive? Maybe hoisted up by her ankles/feet? Once her body reached a certain height, the murderer(s) then dropped her to make it appear like a head first long drop?

If the scenario in your last paragraph is true, when do you think Rebecca was in the balcony room where her prints were found on key strategic points, e.g., bed leg, paintbrushes, etc.?

 

[Quester]

If the scenario in your last paragraph is true, when do you think Rebecca was in the balcony room where her prints were found on key strategic points, e.g., bed leg, paintbrushes, etc.?

Not Lash but ...

Could the tape residue on the outer portion of the lower legs (IIRC) have been to transfer DNA?

:dunno: IDK – can you transfer DNA that way?

This case is bonkers-making!

ETA:

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

The exact language included in [RZ]'s autopsy report reads:

"On the anterolateral mid left shin there is a 1 x 5/8 inch gray piece of material and two smaller similar pieces just distal to it, measuring 1/4 inch and 3/8 inch (Comment: appears similar to tape residue). On the lateral distal right lower leg there is a 1-1/4 x 5/8 inch area consisting of three horizontally oriented, parallel somewhat evenly spaced, areas of sticky, tan-gray apparent tape residue. They are situated between 3/16 and 5/16 inch apart."

 

[bourne]

Not Lash but ...

Could the tape residue on the outer portion of the lower legs (IIRC) have been to transfer DNA?

:dunno: IDK – can you transfer DNA that way?

This case is bonkers-making!

Eureka. That's an excellent thought

I'm thinking as you suggested that it is possible to transfer DNA with an adhesive tape, and that is precisely why no adhesive tapes were found at the crime scenes even though adhesive tape residues were found on Becky's legs! Becky's murderers took the adhesive tapes with them when they left the Spreckels. They didn't want to leave incriminating evidence behind!

I know that investigators collect DNA by using hydrophilic adhesive tapes at crime scenes. So if tapes can be used to collect DNA, it is likely the tapes with the collected DNA can be used to transfer small amounts of Becky's DNA (and prints) as well. Good thinking, Quester!

 

[time]

The 1960 version of the film, 'The Housemaid'...

"Im Sang-soo’s The Housemaid is a remake of a 1960 film of the same name by Kim Ki-young. More accurately, Im’s film is a “reimagining” of Kim’s work. The orginal movie focused on a sexually voracious housemaid with social aspirations who destabilized a nascent middle-class family by seducing the man of the house. Im’s modern-day version reverses the story: a passive working-class housemaid is seduced by her arrogant rich master and punished by his wife and her fearsome mother. "
http://www.cineaste.com/articles/web-takes-emthe-housemaidem

 

[time]

The 1960 version of the film, 'The Housemaid'...

"Im Sang-soo’s The Housemaid is a remake of a 1960 film of the same name by Kim Ki-young. More accurately, Im’s film is a “reimagining” of Kim’s work. The orginal movie focused on a sexually voracious housemaid with social aspirations who destabilized a nascent middle-class family by seducing the man of the house. Im’s modern-day version reverses the story: a passive working-class housemaid is seduced by her arrogant rich master and punished by his wife and her fearsome mother. "
http://www.cineaste.com/articles/web-takes-emthe-housemaidem

FYI, This premiered May 14th , 2010 at the Cannes Film Festival.

 

[time]

Also from your link for the 2010 remake ...

USA limited release 1/21/11

Japanese release 8/27/11

​

For the 1960 original ...

Japanese release 10/20/08

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0150980/releaseinfo
​

On DVD: Jun 7, 2011
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_housemaid/

 

[bourne]

FYI, This premiered May 14th , 2010 at the Cannes Film Festival.

Do you think Becky's murderers watch both versions of "The Housemaid"?

It would be so easy to find the source of the video that was at the Spreckels mansion since the recent remake had only limited releases.

Someone in Coronado and Paradise Valley, AZ -- can you check the history of "The Housemaid" video purchases in those two areas?

I think if we know the source, we'll be able to identify the murderers.

Honestly I don't believe Becky or her sister XZ bought this video. Also, wasn't Becky's credit card stolen in 2011? Was that the same time period this video was bought? If it were, wow, the murderers must have been premeditating/planning Becky's murder for a long time.

 

[arielilane]

It never, ever, ever, ever looked like a suicide to me. No effin' way. I would say it looked like an assassination pure and simple. I've never understood how the suicide assumption took off from a logical perspective.

Hello, it was an abundance of staging by the killers.

 

[jjenny]

The 1960 version of the film, 'The Housemaid'...

"Im Sang-soo’s The Housemaid is a remake of a 1960 film of the same name by Kim Ki-young. More accurately, Im’s film is a “reimagining” of Kim’s work. The orginal movie focused on a sexually voracious housemaid with social aspirations who destabilized a nascent middle-class family by seducing the man of the house. Im’s modern-day version reverses the story: a passive working-class housemaid is seduced by her arrogant rich master and punished by his wife and her fearsome mother. "
http://www.cineaste.com/articles/web-takes-emthe-housemaidem

I thought this case was already beyond bizarre. Now we find out about parallels to both "The housmaid" movies.
First movie has a little boy dying from falling down the stairs after housemaid convinced him he drank poisoned water (according to wikipedia).
Second has housemaid hanging herself from the chandelier while setting herself on fire (again, according to wikipedia).
How much more bizarre can it get?

 

[time]

Do you think Becky's murderers watch both versions of "The Housemaid"?

It would be so easy to find the source of the video that was at the Spreckels mansion since the recent remake had only limited releases.

Someone in Coronado and Paradise Valley, AZ -- can you check the history of "The Housemaid" video purchases in those two areas?

I think if we know the source, we'll be able to identify the murderers.

Honestly I don't believe Becky or her sister XZ bought this video. Also, wasn't Becky's credit card stolen in 2011? Was that the same time period this video was bought? If it were, wow, the murderers must have been premeditating/planning Becky's murder for a long time.

I wish we could verify that video was actually found in the mansion, first off.

I'm having a little trouble thinking Rebecca would identify with this video for a few reasons. I'm wondering if folks are more inclined to think so because it is Asian? Asia is definitely not one big culture and someone from Burma may not identify well with someone from another Asian country like Korea. They are very different cultures in many ways.

I think Rebecca would have been insulted by any thought she was the 'Housemaid" vying against the wife. There was no wife anyway and Jonah is not Asian - just pointing out all the differences instead of just the similarities. However, I think it's possible someone else still saw themselves as 'the wife'. I have seen that in real life, the ex wife or husband still thinks they have more status since the new partner is not legal yet.

I'm also having a difficult time thinking Rebecca or Rebecca and Jonah just coincidentally had this film in the house and then later after Max has his accident, it somehow has something to do with Rebecca committing suicide or any claim it has something to do with Max's death.

Rebecca certainly didn't run out and find the film after Max had his accident and I certainly can't see her planning to hurt Max and kill herself all in one big planning scheme. So, it doesn't make sense she had it. Also, either IP or Caricoa said there is only one rental place in Coronado. It could have been ordered from the internet though.

If it was the newer version, it does appear the film would have to have been purchased between June 7th or July 13th, 2011. A pretty narrow window.

My theory, if it was found at the mansion, is that someone placed it there to intimidate Rebecca or to try and implicate her in a suicide. Or maybe it's to leave another bizarre clue/message like the writing on the door and the viewing with a SW Airlines account.

 

[time]

I thought this case was already beyond bizarre. Now we find out about parallels to both "The housmaid" movies.
First movie has a little boy dying from falling down the stairs after housemaid convinced him he drank poisoned water (according to wikipedia).
Second has housemaid hanging herself from the chandelier while setting herself on fire (again, according to wikipedia).
How much more bizarre can it get?

Yes, that makes it even more bizarre. Somehow, I don't think Rebecca is the one who injected that bizareness? :waitasec:

 

[MissJ]

It never, ever, ever, ever looked like a suicide to me. No effin' way. I would say it looked like an assassination pure and simple. I've never understood how the suicide assumption took off from a logical perspective.

Exactly! Thanks for your post. How anyone could think this a suicide is beyond me!

 

[inthedark14]

I thought this case was already beyond bizarre. Now we find out about parallels to both "The housmaid" movies.
First movie has a little boy dying from falling down the stairs after housemaid convinced him he drank poisoned water (according to wikipedia).
Second has housemaid hanging herself from the chandelier while setting herself on fire (again, according to wikipedia).
How much more bizarre can it get?

Hi JJ--I totally agree with you. This new item of interest just makes everything so much weirder. RZ was never the housekeeper, the babysitter, the nanny or the the staff. RZ was JS' girlfriend. Some people may have seen her in a different way, and labeled her as such, but that was not in fact the truth. The truth was that Becky was Jonah's girlfriend. Of two years. Why these people with so many means did not employ help (I do believe that they did, i.e the chef and his family) but we are not privy to this information. However, RZ is not a housekeeper, and wasn't an EMPLOYEE of JS. This is where it gets really weird and BIZARRE, because whatever help was there, RZ would have most likely been directing.

Always, MOO.

 

[time]

Hi JJ--I totally agree with you. This new item of interest just makes everything so much weirder. RZ was never the housekeeper, the babysitter, the nanny or the the staff. RZ was JS' girlfriend. Some people may have seen her in a different way, and labeled her as such, but that was not in fact the truth. The truth was that Becky was Jonah's girlfriend. Of two years. Why these people with so many means did not employ help (I do believe that they did, i.e the chef and his family) but we are not privy to this information. However, RZ is not a housekeeper, and wasn't an EMPLOYEE of JS. This is where it gets really weird and BIZARRE, because whatever help was there, RZ would have most likely been directing.

Always, MOO.

Well put!

 

[Inparadise]

Exactly! Thanks for your post. How anyone could think this a suicide is beyond me!

Thank you to you both and AMEN!

 

[bourne]

I just noticed that in Ann Rule's book, she writes that Detectives Norton and Palmer had been assigned to speak with Jonah Shacknai on July 13, and that:

"Nevertheless, Jonah was willing to answer any questions the detectives might have fo him. He said that his brother, Adam, had called him at 6:58 that Wednesday morning and told him that Becky had taken her life. "I was shocked," Jonah said slowly. "I couldn't talk. And then I called him back and he said that she had hung herself."

So the presumptions and past reports that Jonah did not return Adam's text message that Becky had hung herself might have been wrong. According to Jonah, he did return Adam's text by telephoning him to ask for further info about what happened with Becky.

This is big because I always thought Jonah just accepted Adam's single text message as the truth and that Jonah never questioned Adam's text or ask for details regarding Becky. So Adam's text might not have been a confirmation that the deed is done after all -- if Jonah was telling the truth to the detectives.

Would be most helpful to have Jonah's phone records the days of 07/11 to 07/13/2011.

 

[bourne]

Yes, that makes it even more bizarre. Somehow, I don't think Rebecca is the one who injected that bizareness? :waitasec:

I agree. I think Becky's murderers had "The Housemaid" video in their possession for a long time and may have been plotting Becky's demise ever since. The coincidences between video and real life of character in movie falling from 2nd floor balcony and hanging/swinging off a chandelier and breaking her neck to Max's fall, a character hopping off 2nd floor balcony and hanging in a noose to Rebecca being hung with a noose from a 2nd story balcony, and now, according to yours and another poster's description that the original 1960 Housemaid video even had a child falling and dying which seems to parallel Max's fatal fall, are too creepy.

Can all these elements from the movie just be coincidences to what happened in real life to Max and Becky? Maybe Max's fall was mere coincidence. But I think the hanging of Becky with a noose was most certainly not.

Becky's murderers premeditated killing Becky with a public hanging to mimic the video. If only investigators would do a search into WHO purchased "The Housemaid" video. I firmly believe that whoever purchased the video is/are the murderers of Becky.

 

[iSleuth]

BBM.

It is rather uncommon for hanging victims to urinate or defecate. (This includes both suspension victims, as well as long and short drop victims.)

Additionally, the autopsy report for RZ does not document either defecation or urination at the scene, or evidence of such at the time of autopsy.

This is one source I found to support that.There are a number of other sources that discuss suicide victims from suspension and long and short drop hangings-- none of which mention urination or defecation.

However, one source mentioned long drop suicide hanging at only 1% of all suicidal hangings. I thought that was very interesting.



http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging2.html

I teach critical thinking @ the adult ed.- college level and as part of our work we often examine court case arguments and evidence. I also teach them that any good argument must address ( and solve) counter arguments.

This mod. one of my students is an EMT with over 10 years experience on ambulances in the NY Metro area ( and the night before had a call on a suicide- 38 male). I was discussing this case with him after class. He said a few things that have really made me think- which pertain to this case.

He said that he been to many many suicide scenes- 3 suicide by hangings calls. In all three cases the suicide was naked. 2/3 were naked women. all 3 did lose control of bowels. HE said this is always the case- as he has experienced. HE also said that 2 of them were both naked and bound with ropes. ( he said loose ropes - do tighten force of body weight and gravity ) hmmm:-(

Until now I was in the camp and firm belief that no woman would kill herself naked and that was evidence to support the belief that she was murdered.

I was also in the camp that her religious upbringing would inhibit her views of suicide as a possibility. The same student stated...if she was so distraught-at ms accident- she possibly would have questioned " how could there even be a god if such tragedy exists in the world" Hmmm another one of my favorite arguments dashed.

However, There were key aspects of the case for murder- though that he pointed out were present.

lividity /ligature marks /hair
When he heard lividity in her back and not her legs and feet- His opinion changed and he changed his tune immediately. As we have discussed many times in this forum. He said - the over the top evidence that she did not commit suicide was !-lividity in her back and not in her feet. HE said that this happens immediately- and that if she did hang herself the lividity would be in her feet- not her back due to the lead content in human blood.

HE surmised that she died in a horizontal position and lividity may have set in in such a way that the perps...could not manage the former plan to make it appear that she had hung herself. Between her weight and stiffening- they could possibly not even have gotten the noose into the position to hang her at all. Which may have caused conflicting damage to her neck. This has really made me think ( I also have a long commute) maybe they were dragging her around to try to position her and that is how her feet became caked with mud.

He also mentioned the presence of ligature marks ( as evidence murder not suicide) and paused a very long time in consideration of her long hair underneath it all.

He also said any body functions present at the scene of a death, on the victim are detailed in EMS and Police reports. and found it odd that if this was suicide- by hanging from length of rope there would be.

I though these were very interesting perspectives from the student a very very critical -" critical thinker"

Thank you for letting me share these thoughts on both sides.
Praying for justice for BeckyZ