Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[Jessica2012]

KZ, so basically what I got out of your informative post is that hangings are generally indicative of suicides, whereas strangulations tend to be homicides. But in this case, Becky was murdered.

What does inverted V mean?

So which ligature line/furrow on Becky's neck is the thinner one posters have been referring to?

@bourne- the inverted v ligature mark is caused by the tension of the rope against the weight of the body and the force of the drop in hanging death.

 

[Jessica2012]

Also with all due respect the links posted above regarding the signs seen in death due to hanging,homicide vs suicide in respect to Rebecca's death further discredit the homicide theory. My opinion only

 

[time]

Also with all due respect the links posted above regarding the signs seen in death due to hanging,homicide vs suicide in respect to Rebecca's death further discredit the homicide theory. My opinion only

I don't see that. Someone could have forced her over, pushed her over, put her in a precarious position where she tipped over, or in a semi-conscious state more passively let her drop off the balcony - all probably easier than she could get over herself. Can you tell any of those from someone drop[ped off the balcony on purpose?

 

[bourne]

I don't see that. Someone could have forced her over, pushed her over, put her in a precarious position where she tipped over, or in a semi-conscious state more passively let her drop off the balcony - all probably easier than she could get over herself. Can you tell any of those from someone drop[ped off the balcony on purpose?

I agree. How does one distinguish a drop off the balcony from someone jumping vs. someone being tossed?

The only way to do so is by analyzing the foot-, hand-prints and DNA on the balcony. From the evidence we have, there are NO signs of Becky on the balcony apart from one toe-print that may or may not be hers. So no way no how did Becky hop off the balcony on her own. Any way you look at it, other people (i.e., her murderers) had to be physically present to throw her off the balcony.

 

[minazoe]

i cannot imagine there being a way to tell, if the hands and feet are bound. there may be no discernable wounds to indicate they were tossed...but I am not an expert...

 

[minazoe]

maybe there would be fingerprint size bruises on her arms etc...

 

[Gilgamesh]

maybe there would be fingerprint size bruises on her arms etc...

Funny you would mention that. The bruises and wounds on Natalie Wood are a big part of the reason that her cause of death got changed from 'accidental' to 'undetermined'.

 

[elfie]

I agree. How does one distinguish a drop off the balcony from someone jumping vs. someone being tossed?

The only way to do so is by analyzing the foot-, hand-prints and DNA on the balcony. From the evidence we have, there are NO signs of Becky on the balcony apart from one toe-print that may or may not be hers. So no way no how did Becky hop off the balcony on her own. Any way you look at it, other people (i.e., her murderers) had to be physically present to throw her off the balcony.

The minute disturbances of the dust on the railing indicate that she had to have been lifted over. Bound in the manner that she was, there is no possible way for her to have gone over on her own without brushing away much larger swaths of dust.

 

[bourne]

The minute disturbances of the dust on the railing indicate that she had to have been lifted over. Bound in the manner that she was, there is no possible way for her to have gone over on her own without brushing away much larger swaths of dust.

Thanks for adding this angle to how we can determine whether Becky was thrown over the balcony railing or whether she actually miraculously leaped over on her own with her hands bound behind her back and her feet also bound, along with a noose around her neck and a t-shirt wrung several times tightly around her neck with sleeve stuffed down her throat.

Phew! I can barely fit all that into one sentence.

It's unbelievable what suicide theorists claim that she could have done, and without disturbing the dust on the railing or getting her DNA/prints on the balcony either. Either Becky knew magic or her murderers threw her over the balcony. QED

 

[Gilgamesh]

I have 2 antivirus programs installed on my computer. I just got a notice which asked me to install "wsdetect.dll" on my computer if I trust it. Hell no, I don't trust it! WTF?
Are you &^%&**ing kidding me? I would advise people to be extra vigilant about not clicking on any links, not accepting any 'friend' requests from linkedIn, FB, etc.

I have thought for awhile now that the vise is tightening for certain people. Just be vigilant, that's all.

Sorry, I didn't know where to post this so I just picked the last place that a posting appeared. (actually it was MY posting but it got deleted. lol). Don't mean to scare anyone, this is just a head's up. Be smart about your internet use.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Oh yeah, one more thing. When you are done with FB, linkedIn, email, make sure to sign out, don't leave it open for easy access later. There's also great info on how to create a really secure password on the internet if you google it.
I'm not trying to stir the pot here, these are things you should be doing anyway.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I think it could have been DS... if AS had actually taken sleeping meds....

I think DS could have acted alone.... planned during the day her revenge..... knew the home well...knew easily how to find the items she needed I think she could have subdued RZ by surprising her in the shower.... tied her up and threw RZ over the balcony.... "like a bullet" it is almost like DS when she is describing in this latest interview how she thinks MS died.... is actually how RZ died...

DS could have easily gotten into the house.... waited for RZ to take a shower and then attacked her in the shower.... I think DS is crazy enough to do this.... and was large enough and strong enough to have been able to pick up RZ and throw her over the balcony once RZ was tied up.....

I think NR was actually at the house not reailzing her sister was already there...I don't think NR would risk her freedom and her family to help her sister kill RZ.... I think NR wanted to help her sister get answers... and gave up once she could not gain entry into the house... I think it WAS DS that was seen at the house....

the message on the door certainly fits.... sarcastic message to JS.... she saved him... can you save her... JS must have defended RZ at one point in front of DS...something about how RZ did some rescue breaths.... a comment like that would have further enraged the unstable DS...

I would not be surprised if DS was the one to bring the housemaid movie to the house by giving it to the teenage children.... another way of harassing RZ

I would love to ask the teenage children how that movie got into the mansion...

DS has plenty of time to pull this off before meeting up with JS at the hospital....

 

[arielilane]

Its feasible...especially since her connection to JS would no longer be... Her anger gave her the strength she needed.

 

[bourne]

Hi Mrs. Holmes, Time, et al., we just flew back to the states from overseas vacay & are down south in winter home now. I'm experiencing really bad jet-lag. Will reply here and to your PMs as soon as I'm fully awake and alert!

 

[time]

Hi Mrs. Holmes, Time, et al., we just flew back to the states from overseas vacay & are down south in winter home now. I'm experiencing really bad jet-lag. Will reply here and to your PMs as soon as I'm fully awake and alert!

Good to see you back!

 

[bourne]

I think it could have been DS... if AS had actually taken sleeping meds....

I think DS could have acted alone.... planned during the day her revenge..... knew the home well...knew easily how to find the items she needed I think she could have subdued RZ by surprising her in the shower.... tied her up and threw RZ over the balcony.... "like a bullet" it is almost like DS when she is describing in this latest interview how she thinks MS died.... is actually how RZ died...

DS could have easily gotten into the house.... waited for RZ to take a shower and then attacked her in the shower.... I think DS is crazy enough to do this.... and was large enough and strong enough to have been able to pick up RZ and throw her over the balcony once RZ was tied up.....

I think NR was actually at the house not reailzing her sister was already there...I don't think NR would risk her freedom and her family to help her sister kill RZ.... I think NR wanted to help her sister get answers... and gave up once she could not gain entry into the house... I think it WAS DS that was seen at the house....

the message on the door certainly fits.... sarcastic message to JS.... she saved him... can you save her... JS must have defended RZ at one point in front of DS...something about how RZ did some rescue breaths.... a comment like that would have further enraged the unstable DS...

I would not be surprised if DS was the one to bring the housemaid movie to the house by giving it to the teenage children.... another way of harassing RZ

I would love to ask the teenage children how that movie got into the mansion...

DS has plenty of time to pull this off before meeting up with JS at the hospital....

You already know what I think, Mrs. Holmes!

I'm with you on Dina being crazy and arrogant enough to commit the ultimate crime. I definitely believe she was the perp. We disagree though about her twin. I do believe Nina was actively and physically involved in Becky's murder as well. Despite Dina's facade of cockiness, she's a coward who needs a supportive audience and helping hand in order to perpetrate her crime.

It's like how bullies in the playground work. They need a gang in order to pull off their nefarious deeds because there's strength in numbers. And what better way to have such cruel support but with her bonded-twin-for-lifer Nina, whom an insider has said Dina has been secretly financially supporting the past decade or more -- with Nina and her hubby's mortgages, her ex-husband's dealings, etc. This is why Nina stands behind Dina 100% in the aftermath of Becky's murder. Nina cannot afford not to. She needs whatever $money Dina can throw her way. Otherwise, she'd be in financial straits.

ITA about Dina's narrative about Becky. Dina was projecting and describing her own murderous actions that night Becky was murdered in cold-blood. I also would like to know how "The Housemaid" video got into the Spreckels mansion as well. I do not believe Becky or XZ brought it in. Nor did Jonah or Adam. It has to be either Jonah's teens or Dina or Nina as they harbor a long-seated hatred and vindictive jealousy of Becky to do so.

 

[STS-135]

Hi KZ,
Interesting that you would say that because when I researched it, I found a huge pool of information about hanging victims defecating and urinating on themselves. Not trying to be contentious, I'm just surprised to hear you state this. It's not what I found on the Internet.

Also victims of trauma (blows to the head) and even natural death as we exit. I was leaning towards your line of thinking as an possible explanation for what I can clearly see but still not discern on the bedspread next to the chair. Am I hallucinating or is there also what appears to be a footprint on it on the lower right. I supposed it might just be a LE boot, but why would an investigator step on evidence in the room? Never mind, don't answer that... A better question might be, what do you see on the bedspread? Thanks!

 

[DeDee]

I find that strange that the police would investigate RZ's ex, NN, based on tenuous info put forth by Jonah Shacknai.

If that doesn't suggest Jonah's influence and hands in LE's pockets, I don't know what does.

LE investigated the hanging death of RZ which naturally included the man she had recently divorced. No deep pockets required.

Hi Time!

Adam told detectives when he got to the guesthouse he called his girlfriend, drank a diet 7up. He took an Ambien sleeping pill and went to bed.

In my opinion, the Ambien could be significant in regards to why Adam didn't hear the screams that night.

Did the couple who lived on the premises depart on Monday? Apparently so, since there is no report of them hearing any screams coming from the main house.

Yes, Ann Rule mentions that lawyers working on Becky's case wants specifics from investigators regarding what type of was accessed on 7/12-7/13, and by whom. Apparently Anne Bremner's team, specifically a lawyer named David Fleck made a whole list of investigative questions they want answered and why they want Becky's case reopened.

Adam apparently blurted out he was viewing on his Iphone upon waking up Wed morning about 5:30am and that he saw a rope and a body hanging off it as he was making his way to the main house to ask Rebecca if she wanted to have breakfast with him.

He apparently also found a knife in the correct drawer in the main kitchen (apparently main house door was unlocked) to cut Becky down. He had pulled a patio table over to help reach her. Also he made several 9-11 calls, each time repeating, "Got a girl hung herself."

The internet searches were conducted on Rebecca's computer by Rebecca. Perhaps one reason that AB quit talking about the was b/c the sheriff warned that he would release the entire contents of the LE findings in regards to RZ's background. These details have not been released to the public; however, the information must implicate unsavory details or AB would have kept talking.

I think it could have been DS... if AS had actually taken sleeping meds....

I think DS could have acted alone.... planned during the day her revenge..... knew the home well...knew easily how to find the items she needed I think she could have subdued RZ by surprising her in the shower.... tied her up and threw RZ over the balcony.... "like a bullet" it is almost like DS when she is describing in this latest interview how she thinks MS died.... is actually how RZ died...

DS could have easily gotten into the house.... waited for RZ to take a shower and then attacked her in the shower.... I think DS is crazy enough to do this.... and was large enough and strong enough to have been able to pick up RZ and throw her over the balcony once RZ was tied up.....

<respectfully snipped>

I would not be surprised if DS was the one to bring the housemaid movie to the house by giving it to the teenage children.... another way of harassing RZ

I would love to ask the teenage children how that movie got into the mansion...

DS has plenty of time to pull this off before meeting up with JS at the hospital....

It is more than interesting that a copy of The Housemaid movie was taken by LE. Were other movies also taken into custody? Only after I viewed snippets available on youtube was I convinced that MS did not fall unassisted and that RZ committed suicide. Since that time, I have viewed the full length versions which cemented my opinion that RZ was grossly involved in MS's injuries and subsequent death as there are too many parallels to be conincidence.

If Dina wasn't considered a possible suspect or at least someone they needed to rule out, then why did LE need to determine her position at all?

On 8-24, Search Warrant 41432 was specifically requested by Det. James for hospital surveillance video. Jonah is named in the warrant as a reason for the request was to establish his statements. Dina is not named.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41432.pdf

Dina's cell phone records were requested in Search Warrants 11-164/65 on 8-24 by Det. Tsuida. The detective specifically states in her opinions and conclusions the reason for her request was to examine Jonah's and Dina's phone records to determine their location at the time of Rebecca's death. The detective goes on further to state the phone records will help evaluate whether the statements given by the Jonah and Dina to LE have been truthful.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

The diligence of LE's investigation is apparent. They were searching for any reason to declare RZ's hanging a murder. However, the evidence only pointed to RZ.

If you have decided you'll call it a suicide, then you certainly would not need to expend as many resources. This coincides with what I said not long ago.

Where does it say that Gore/LE did not look for Dina in those videotapes? I think they did look and had to settle for the cell phone pings - I don't think we've seen any proof of that though.

They had to find something to claim they had checked out Dina's alibi after all those claims of Dina and Jonah standing vigil over Max's bedside - then we find out Dina wasn't even there for many many hours on Tuesday (12-14 hours per my estimates) nor was she even there on Monday until 5 hours after Max had his accident. We already know that from the time Max was hurt until Rebecca was murdered (let's say the latest was 3 am) about 1 1/2 days, that Dina was gone from the hospital nearly half that time.

If you think DA's and LE never lie, manipulate the interpretation of evidence, or withhold some evidence then you don't know much about wrongful convictions beyond the 'eye witness' account stuff you keep citing when it fits your theory to do so, e.g., discredit the man and his wife who say they saw Dina at the mansion.

Based on what has been said, it supports my idea that there were possibly people who claimed they saw Dina at the hospital (some of that time), but their stories had problems, there was conflicting information, the sources were not credible or couldn't remember exactly, or .... Gore couldn't reconcile that enough to count it as an alibi. He never even mentioned eye witnesses did he?

And, you know how unreliable eyewitnesses are anyway.

BBM - This is true for the eyewitness who claims to have seen DS at the mansion on the night of the hanging. Unreliable.

I wonder why Ann Rule mentions that Rebecca was riding a bike on Ocean Boulevard while wearing a bikini? Seems odd to me........EVERYONE rides bikes in Coronado.

IMO, this goes toward RZ's comfort as an exhibitionist.

I'm inclined to believe the same as you that it was not Adam who accessed the anime and lesbian on Becky's computer. He didn't arrive until late Tuesday about 5pm and Becky, he and Jonah were occupied at the hospital, airport, restaurant, etc. from the time he landed in the airport until Becky dropped him off at the Spreckel's mansion guesthouse at 8pm. Unless the viewing was made between Tues 8pm-5am Wed, Adam did not access Becky's computer.

I also highly doubt it was Dr. Luber who accessed Becky's computer for the . He really has no motive to want to harm or disparage Becky.

The only suspects to this -viewing are Dina and Nina, the latter of whom even admitted to being at the mansion. And Dina has no alibi much of Tuesday.

Also of note is that Jonah's computer, along with Becky's laptop and Becky's cellphone were all found in the murder room. It appears that the murderers of Becky were planting all this as evidence, perhaps even to frame Jonah and Adam.

So, we are to believe that while a mother's only child lie dying in a hospital she has the wherewithal to search anime sites on RZ's computer in an effort to plant evidence pointing toward suicide? Ludicrous. How did DS obtain access to RZ's computer passwords, etc.? Ridiculous.

I actually don't see maleness in the murder scene. The letters painted on the door are feminine to me. Generally when women write "S" we make it curvy; men tend to write "S' with slight points at the arcs. Also, I don't know how poetic Jonah is but the painted words are almost poetic and lyrical: "SHE SAVED HIM CAN YOU SAVE HER".

I also don't think it was a spontaneous, impulsive rage murder that happened out of the blue in the murder room. It looks to me it was premeditated for many hours before hand. Estimated measurements of the lengths of ropes needed to be made in advance, the ropes had to be cut in advance, paint and paintbrushes needed to be bought/found, planting on Becky's computer using a Southwest account, what words to paint on the door, etc. All these things needed to be carefully planned in advance. I don't think it was on impulse that Becky was suddenly killed.

BBM - We are expected to believe DS was capable of planning and executing the murder of RZ while her son was clinging to life in ICU at a children's hospital? The grieving mother could not even plan a memorial for her son for nearly a year after his death yet we are to believe she searched sexy raped Asian on RZ's computer, planted The Housemaid movie, wore gloves, accosted RZ, forced her to paint a message on the hanging room door, tied her up, and tossed her body over a balcony from at least 20" away since there were no footprints; all without leaving any DNA or fingerprints? Nonsense.


http://www.indiegogo/projects/justice4rebecca

From May 08 - August 06, 2013, the crowdfundraiser brought in $5438 given by 56 donors and far short of the $535,000 goal projected to fund the Zahau's lawsuit. That is not indicative of an abundance of people who believe RZ's death was anything other than a suicide.

imo & mmo

 

[bourne]

The BOLDS in BLACK are Bourne's replies. A questionable try DeDee but no cigar.

LE investigated the hanging death of RZ which naturally included the man she had recently divorced. No deep pockets required.

Just because LE asserts that they have done an "investigation" does not make it so. Nor does it mean that deep pockets were not involved. I don't see the connection you're trying to make. Where's the evidence? And weren't you part of the Dina group that questions the ruling in Max's case?So you believe that Max's case was NOT properly or thoroughly investigated but Rebecca's case was? Hmm...double standard and hypocritical.

Did the couple who lived on the premises depart on Monday? Apparently so, since there is no report of them hearing any screams coming from the main house.

Huh? :waitasec: Why would the chef and his family be screaming when no harm was being done to them? Irrelevant premise again.

The internet searches were conducted on Rebecca's computer by Rebecca. Perhaps one reason that AB quit talking about the was b/c the sheriff warned that he would release the entire contents of the LE findings in regards to RZ's background. These details have not been released to the public; however, the information must implicate unsavory details or AB would have kept talking.

And how do YOU know that? Because you SAW Rebecca do the searches? Where is the trail or tracking evidence that Rebecca did the searches and that no one else could have?

It is more than interesting that a copy of The Housemaid movie was taken by LE. Were other movies also taken into custody? Only after I viewed snippets available on youtube was I convinced that MS did not fall unassisted and that RZ committed suicide. Since that time, I have viewed the full length versions which cemented my opinion that RZ was grossly involved in MS's injuries and subsequent death as there are too many parallels to be conincidence.

:waitasec: So you saw snippets of "The Housemaid" movie and THAT fictional, completely made-up hyperbolic movie convinced you MS was murdered and that RZ committed suicide? Are you seriously claiming that THAT movie is YOUR ENTIRE EVIDENCE to support your conclusions? Specifically which "coincidences" in the movie led you to believe this?


The diligence of LE's investigation is apparent. They were searching for any reason to declare RZ's hanging a murder. However, the evidence only pointed to RZ.

What's the evidence that supports your statement here? If you're claiming LE was diligent in their investigation of RZ's murder, does that mean you believe that they were diligent in their investigation of Max's accident? So now you're confident in LE's investigations in both cases, right?


BBM - This is true for the eyewitness who claims to have seen DS at the mansion on the night of the hanging. Unreliable.

Have no idea what you're trying to say here. Do clarify.

IMO, this goes toward RZ's comfort as an exhibitionist.

Your opinion with no basis in evidence or facts is simply an uninformed opinion then. You're entitled to hold it, but it doesn't convince me of anything.

So, we are to believe that while a mother's only child lie dying in a hospital she has the wherewithal to search anime sites on RZ's computer in an effort to plant evidence pointing toward suicide? Ludicrous. How did DS obtain access to RZ's computer passwords, etc.? Ridiculous.

Really? So on the one hand, you're saying one woman (Dina) is INCAPABLE of doing computer searches but another woman (Rebecca) is not, and the only difference is that one is a "mother" vs. a "woman who loved Max like her own son"? I'm not seeing any reasonable, distinguishing factors or evidence behind what you're saying. The question here is: Why can't a mother do computer searches particularly if she knows how and may very well have done such searches in the past?

BBM - We are expected to believe DS was capable of planning and executing the murder of RZ while her son was clinging to life in ICU at a children's hospital? The grieving mother could not even plan a memorial for her son for nearly a year after his death yet we are to believe she searched sexy raped Asian on RZ's computer, planted The Housemaid movie, wore gloves, accosted RZ, forced her to paint a message on the hanging room door, tied her up, and tossed her body over a balcony from at least 20" away since there were no footprints; all without leaving any DNA or fingerprints? Nonsense.

Again, you're trying to make a distinction between Dina and Rebecca but the only reason you give for why Dina cannot have planned/executed a murder is the sole fact that she is a "mother"? Let's see. Here's just one example: Casey Anthony killed her daughter. So being a "mother" does NOT exclude a woman from plotting, committing or executing a murder. Here's another more recent one: Chelsea Huggett "shook the child, smashed her head against the wall and headbutted her because she would not stop 'whining'" according to http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-daughter-2-shaking-smashing-head-wall.html.

 

[K_Z]

Hi Jessica2012! :seeya: