fingerprints and pubic hairs

[Goody]

But another found on door to garage. Which neither side even mention at the trial. I don't know beezy how you think, but this all just makes me think and think. I do not know what is the correct answer for sure but I do not think that these things are things that are so easily thrown away as some here seem to think. I do not care much about psychiatry or if she good mummy because I do not think any here know any better than me and I know I do not know about that stuff. But this fingerprint stuff is interesting. You might find it interesting.

Hey, Snooty! How have you been, girl? Haven't seen you around in a long time. The thread at A&E has pretty much dried up. No fun at all anymore.

I agree that the fingerprint information is interesting. It is just a partial print...that bloody one on the table behind the sofa. It is smudged right in the middle which is why it can't be identified postitively, but it has a whorl pattern just like Darlie's ring finger. Plus it is small in size, which means it probably belonged to a small framed male adult or a female adult. Darin was ruled out, and Damon has been ruled out. Only Devon and Darlie have the whorl pattern like the fingerprint has. Devon is ruled out by Dr Jantz who says is does not belong to a child as Cron thought AND because blood evidence shows he did not move from his position on the floor after he was stabbed. That leaves only Darlie who can't be ruled out. So guess who I think the print belongs to? WRONG! Not the intruder. Try again.....:laugh:

Now tell me, Snooty, which country are you from? Germany or Holland?

 

[Goody]

Of course she said she felt betrayed- because she had to pretend she was a victim of the attacks herself. Had she NOT said she felt betrayed then it would have stood out like a sore thumb.

Dani, don't you think she felt really betrayed by LE? After all, until they arrested her she thought she had fooled them. She was flirting with them, joking with them, etc. To find out all of a sudden that they hadn't been buying any of it must have felt like a real betrayal because they had been pretending to believe her all along. I bet she sizzled inside over that.

 

[beesy]

Of course she said she felt betrayed- because she had to pretend she was a victim of the attacks herself. Had she NOT said she felt betrayed then it would have stood out like a sore thumb.

Well, I still think she truly felt betrayed. She expected to be believed. After all, why would she do something so horrid? But, no worries.. just different opinions on something which we can't prove either way. I love her mug shot, she wasn't expecting that..heh heh
It is strange to think of her not realizing that when she walked into the station that day, she'd never be free again. Most times, people are released on bail, but not Darlie. Now don't worry, I don't feel sorry for her. I'm just thinking about how shocked she was and how unaware she was that she needed to cherish her freedom before she walked into the station. Actually it makes me want to :laugh:

 

[HeartofTexas]

I'd also like to throw in here that I think Darin (who I think helped her "cover up" the crime) told her the police would never, ever suspect a "wonderful mom" like her of doing such a heinous crime and that she didn't have anything to worry about. That, coupled with her belief in her acting skills, left her totally blindsided about being arrested for the crime. She carried her disbelief right on into the court room, too, where her "acting skills" hadn't improved one bit, and where she was then blindsided by the guilty verdict and the subsequent trip to Death Row. One of these days her jaw is going to close!

 

[Goody]

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Not when she's reduced the intruder to a "blur"....she's given up trying to descibe him/them! ...

No, she hasn't. There have been new changes since then. She was hypnotized for one thing and remembers wrestling with not one but two guys on the couch. And guess what? One is a little guy...to match that little print, no doubt. LOL! So never kid yourself. Darlie is still working on that description of the intruder(s), he is being edited even as we post here, I am sure. hahahahaha!

.

Awww, don't make fun of Judge Judy! That's a good one too...

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Too late. I already did. Please don't tell me that Judge Judy is your judge of choice. O, gawd!!!

 

[Goody]

Goody we are not actually disagreeing with each other much on this. I'm not claiming that Darlie in all honesty has forgotten the fact that she killed her kids. What I do think though is her role as the victim, fighting for her life on death row, has eclipsed the reality of what she did to them. Perhaps she doesn't dwell on it much or at all and in that way, by blocking it from her conscious thoughts, she can allow the victim mentality to take on 'righteous' proportions and eclipse the fact that she is guilty of murder. I mean just take a look at that letter someone posted from erica shepherd. The woman is a murderer but she claims that she is being victimised with no basis whatsoever. The reason she is in there doesn't even seem to occur to her when she considers her treatment.

In prison, inmates are not reminded on a daily basis about their crime. It is a very different world there and the focus is on the little things that make up their day. I am not surprised that Erica thinks she is right to complain about the injustices around her because she knows her crime is not supposed to be held against her inside. They can't treat her differently because they don't like her crime. In that way, their crimes do drift into the shadows. I don't think that means the boys don't exist for Darlie. I think they exist for her in a fanciful way that does not include her having to feel guilty. In other words, the crime itself does not exist anymore. She sees the boys before and she sees them now as angels. What happened in between is probably kept neatly tucked away in a little box that she rarely takes out.

 

[Goody]

Dani, I agree with you 100%. The boys no longer exist, either in this life, or in Darlie's mind. Since the day Darlie was arrested, the focus has been on her and only shifts back to the boys when someone else brings them up.

To some extent, I think this is true. But I don't think it is the boys that don't exist for her. I think it is the actual crime that does not exist. Like I told Dani in a previous post, I think she had put that part of it away where she doesn;t have to deal with it on a daily basis. She probably thinks of the boys often before they died and after as she imagines them as angels. She feels wronged by the system because in her mind they didn't prove she did it. Whether she did it or not is not important. If they didn't prove she did it and convicted her anyway, she got a raw deal and is justified in feeling cheated. But that doesn;t mean that she has started believing her own hype, that she believes she truly is innocent. It just represents how the human mind will manipulate to avoid what it doesn;t want to deal with; to what extreme one will go to outwit the forces against it.

 

[Goody]

I think this statement is not correct. I do not know every fact of this case but I do know about this. The fingerprint was supposed to be that of the young boy Damon, prosecution already said it was not that of Darlie so why would there be a need to have anyone check her fingerprint? No need. Only to check the print of the boy Damon.
I have be reading about this. Before this happen, Darlie said not to be the fingerprint. After this said that the fingerprint not belong to Damon then the prosecution start over with another fingerprint espert. They don use the same one as the trial. I don know why that is but they use another and that person said might be Darlie might not be.

You are talking about the fingerprint expert the state hired (Werthan, I think) in response to the boys' fingerprints being compared to the bloody fingerprint. Once it was determined that the fingerprints did not belong to Damon as originally claimed in the trial, the state responded by hiring their own expert and the defense then hired Jantz, and now they are still at the same stand off except both sides now rule out the boys as possible donors.

An I do wonder about this. If defense or Darlie thinks she could be guilty then why do they allow the new fingerprint set to be done at the prison? It was done with her permission. At the beginning I thought she had to do it but then I learn that she do not have to do it. She said yes freely. If guilty why would she do that? I can not think of reason.

The state wanted new prints from Darlie to compare to the bloody print for comparison (after Damon's prints didn't match it). She agreed to do it because she would have looked guilty if she hadn't. Simple as that. It wasn't that risky. She knew the print did not have enough points to make a positive ID, so the most they could get was that they couldn't rule her out. Since they originally did pretty much rule her out, she had no reason to think they wouldn't again. At that point, if they could have ruled her out, and they ruled the boys out, she stood a good chance of raising reasonable doubt. It was still a long shot, but it was at least a shot...Had it not been for her ring finger with that whorl pattern on it.

 

[Goody]

The boys were not fingerprinted by the medical examiner nor did they have them anywhere else on file. The boys had to be exhumed and their hands removed and rehydrated in order to try and get their prints. Since the defense has kept quiet about this little late night sneak into the cemetary, we can only conclude that they couldn't prove anything about the print. The print was said to be that of a female or child because of the size of the print. I'm not sure if there were even enough points on the print to be able to ever determine who the print belonged to. Suffice it to say, however, that the print was not that of an adult male. So, we are where we've been since the beginning. No other person was in that house besides this family when the boys were murdered.

There are not enough points to positively ID the bloody fingerprint. It is smudged in the center, so it is only a partial print.

 

[Goody]

I'd also like to throw in here that I think Darin (who I think helped her "cover up" the crime) told her the police would never, ever suspect a "wonderful mom" like her of doing such a heinous crime and that she didn't have anything to worry about. That, coupled with her belief in her acting skills, left her totally blindsided about being arrested for the crime. She carried her disbelief right on into the court room, too, where her "acting skills" hadn't improved one bit, and where she was then blindsided by the guilty verdict and the subsequent trip to Death Row. One of these days her jaw is going to close!

:laugh: aaahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! O, what an image, heart!

 

[beesy]

No, she hasn't. There have been new changes since then. She was hypnotized for one thing and remembers wrestling with not one but two guys on the couch. And guess what? One is a little guy...to match that little print, no doubt. LOL! So never kid yourself. Darlie is still working on that description of the intruder(s), he is being edited even as we post here, I am sure. hahahahaha!

Jeez! So she is throwing a midget in the mix. LOL....she's never offered any reason for those bruises though has she? "Wrestling" with somebody wouldn't cause those, as she knows of course.

Too late. I already did. Please don't tell me that Judge Judy is your judge of choice. O, gawd!!!

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Ooooh, what got your knickers all in a knot? I don't really have a judge of choice. Should I? The quote of hers that I've used fits Darlie to a T, as does "beauty fades, dumb is forever"

 

[Goody]

[/color].
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Ooooh, what got your knickers all in a knot? I don't really have a judge of choice. Should I? The quote of hers that I've used fits Darlie to a T, as does "beauty fades, dumb is forever"

LOL! My knickers are doing just fine, thank you. :blowkiss: JJ's quote about beauty fading fits a lot of defendants. I gotta admit that is a good one, esp for JJ. hahahahahah!

 

[beesy]

The state wanted new prints from Darlie to compare to the bloody print for comparison (after Damon's prints didn't match it). She agreed to do it because she would have looked guilty if she hadn't. Simple as that. It wasn't that risky. She knew the print did not have enough points to make a positive ID, so the most they could get was that they couldn't rule her out. Since they originally did pretty much rule her out, she had no reason to think they wouldn't again. At that point, if they could have ruled her out, and they ruled the boys out, she stood a good chance of raising reasonable doubt. It was still a long shot, but it was at least a shot...Had it not been for her ring finger with that whorl pattern on it.

Why did they need new prints? Prints are prints, right?

 

[Goody]

Why did they need new prints? Prints are prints, right?

I don't know. Maybe the prints taken at her arrest had gotten smudged or something I haven't a clue.

 

[Dani_T]

So that is why the bodys removed from the grave and the Dr. from U of Tenn asked to do his testings on the handprints of the little boys. Dr. Jantz. So he is ask to say if the print come from the boy Damon and he say no.

Actually Jantz did not say the print did or did not belong to Damon. That was not his job. He was not identifying the print but comparing measurements. His results were that it was highly unlikely that it belonged to Damon. Not that it didn't. That wasn't his job.

What his results DID say was that it was twice as likely that it belonged to an adult female rather than an adult male.

 

[Dani_T]

Dani, don't you think she felt really betrayed by LE? After all, until they arrested her she thought she had fooled them. She was flirting with them, joking with them, etc. To find out all of a sudden that they hadn't been buying any of it must have felt like a real betrayal because they had been pretending to believe her all along. I bet she sizzled inside over that.

Yes, she probably felt betrayed- but because they didn't believe her- not because she believed herself really to be a victim. What I'm saying is that now I think she has taken on that victim role for real in her own head... that it is not a 'pretense' anymore.

 

[Dani_T]

In prison, inmates are not reminded on a daily basis about their crime. It is a very different world there and the focus is on the little things that make up their day. I am not surprised that Erica thinks she is right to complain about the injustices around her because she knows her crime is not supposed to be held against her inside.

Of course her crime is being held against her when she is in jail. That's why she is there.

What happened in between is probably kept neatly tucked away in a little box that she rarely takes out.

Yeah I agree. Which is why I think it is easier for her to honestly believe she IS a victim (and on some level therefore innocent)

 

[Dani_T]

Beesy,

Was it necessary to get that snippy and with Snooty? English is clearly not her first language so I'm not sure why you took such offense at the way she said things.

 

[beesy]

Beesy,

Was it necessary to get that snippy and with Snooty? English is clearly not her first language so I'm not sure why you took such offense at the way she said things.

If you'll notice in my first post to her, I said just that. Upon reading her reply, I felt she was able to stand on her own since she is so knowledgable. I did not find her reply post to be low on the sarcasm level either. There were places in her post which I obviously misunderstood and she took as ignorance. I was just filling her in. After all, aren't we all here to learn?

 

[Dani_T]

If you'll notice in my first post to her, I said just that. Upon reading her reply, I felt she was able to stand on her own since she is so knowledgable. I did not find her reply post to be low on the sarcasm level either. There were places in her post which I obviously misunderstood and she took as ignorance. I was just filling her in. After all, aren't we all here to learn?

I know you said it in your first post which is why I was so suprised to see you get so narky in your second one. Fact is snooty has been around for a while (we've all had our own often frustrating debates with her in the past) and does know the case well (even if she isn't able to always express it well in english and even if I completely disagree with the conclusions she draws). Yes, we're all hear to learn and it's probably none of my business- I just thought it was uncalled for and would hope that we could give someone for whom english is a bit of a struggle the benefit of the doubt (at least initially) without assuming they are trying to insult us.

Anyway, that's me on the topic.