FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021 #2

[indicolite22]

One of the recently identified victims was a lady from Uruguay who was vacationing in Florida with her husband. He is still missing. No info on the apartment number.

[WATCH] Bernardo Camou Font of Uruguay made the journey to Surfside to pay tribute to his sister, Gabriela, who was inside the Champlain Towers South when it collapsed. Today, he placed a poster of special childhood photos on the Memorial Wall. He shares his grief with me.
@nbc6
https://twitter.com/paxton/status/1413210253232152576 (reporter)

 

[indicolite22]

Death toll in Surfside building collapse reaches 90, including 3 more children

Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett stressed the care that rescue workers are taking in peeling back layers of rubble in hopes of recovering not only bodies but also possessions of the victims. He said the work is so delicate that crews have found unbroken wine bottles amid the rubble.

 

[indicolite22]

Death Toll at 90; Touching Memorial Held for Victims of Surfside Collapse Tragedy

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue Chief Alan Cominsky:

"The stairwell is always a primary, you know, just the stability of how the stairwell is built -- it's hard and better than other areas per say. So with a collapse, that's where you have your greatest void space, greatest possibility," said Cominsky. "Unfortunately, the way of this type of collapse and everything coming down and another building shared, where we found a stairwell in another location per say that also collapsed in pancake, it minimized those opportunities."

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Death Toll at 90; Touching Memorial Held for Victims of Surfside Collapse Tragedy

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue Chief Alan Cominsky:

"The stairwell is always a primary, you know, just the stability of how the stairwell is built -- it's hard and better than other areas per say. So with a collapse, that's where you have your greatest void space, greatest possibility," said Cominsky. "Unfortunately, the way of this type of collapse and everything coming down and another building shared, where we found a stairwell in another location per say that also collapsed in pancake, it minimized those opportunities."

I wonder if that stairwell kept that right hand part up for those extra 6 seconds before it collapsed? IIRC, of the ???? ~20 folks ?? that were pulled from the twin towers, some were first responders that were in a stairwell.

Also from link, the Israeli professionals who I'm sure have shared their expertise with US comrades that can build knowledge from as to ??? how to investigate/how to respect/how to deal with Jewish law as to respect of the dead etc etc etc. And perhaps they in turn will take home learnings with them. I do appreciate the worldwide response (I know of Spain and Israel, not sure of who else??).

"Israeli crews, who were among the first international teams to respond to the tragedy at the Champlain Towers South in Surfside, are returning home Sunday.

Before their departure, a ceremony was held Saturday to honor the crews and thank them for their help. Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava decorated the heroes with medals.

"Last night, we held a memorial walk along Collins Avenue with family members and first responders, Hatzalah, that's been on the scene from the beginning and members of the Israeli Defense Forces," Levine Cava said. "This walk was truly a beautiful moment for those of us who were able to participate. Members of the community, our first responders, international partners, we all came together once again to recognize the enormous tragedy and the extraordinary efforts of everyone who has helped to get us through these difficult days and their tremendous heroism."

 

[mickey2942]

I wonder if people who bought a condo at Surfside, primarily for rental income, were the ones who did not want the additional costs. After all, they don't live there.

That is why, where we live, you can't rent your condo. Own it, live in it, or sell it.

 

[IceIce9]

I was not a fan of living in Florida. JMO. I don't miss it.

I wonder what all of these folks will do now, the ones who lived there, lost everything, and are still alive? What an insurance nightmare. One guy I know, lost everything in Hurricane Wilma, and dealing with insurance, he literally couldn't afford to rebuild or buy something. He ended up living with his daughter.

I had some friends who left Florida permanently after a hurricane several years ago. Their homes and the business they owned (where all the family members worked) were destroyed, so the entire extended family moved out of state to start over.

 

[sds71]

@BojorquezCBS

Each victim of the Surfside collapse represents an immense loss to their family and friends. Because I’ve gotten to know the Spiegels, this update is a difficult one — Judy Spiegel, beloved wife, mother and grandmother, has been recovered. May her memory be a blessing.

 

[PayrollNerd]

Death Toll at 90; Touching Memorial Held for Victims of Surfside Collapse Tragedy

Miami-Dade Fire Rescue Chief Alan Cominsky:

"The stairwell is always a primary, you know, just the stability of how the stairwell is built -- it's hard and better than other areas per say. So with a collapse, that's where you have your greatest void space, greatest possibility," said Cominsky. "Unfortunately, the way of this type of collapse and everything coming down and another building shared, where we found a stairwell in another location per say that also collapsed in pancake, it minimized those opportunities."

All the helpers. My goodness my heart just swells with pride and respect at their dedication and willingness to do their work so very well. All the teams working together to help the families have resolution on their way to peace.

 

[Marysmith]

Or there’s people like me, who own their own homes and pay others to do maintenance. What I pay for my lawn to be mowed weekly, pool cleaned weekly, spring cleanup, snow plowing in the winter as needed, etc, is far less than $850/month. And no one can tell me what I can or can’t do to my own property. It’s great.

I’m sure the fees are higher though because of all the issues… and it’s the coast off Miami. I’ve lived in a couple different condos - 1 in Florida but not on the coast - and those are high! To live there in Sunrise you don’t have a lot of choices but condo living.
ETA: and I get it and that’s a beautiful location and I would do it too if I worked there, etc… it’s a dream.

 

[al66pine]

Champaign Tower. To Rent or Not to Rent?

I wonder if people who bought a condo at Surfside, primarily for rental income, were the ones who did not want the additional costs. After all, they don't live there.That is why, where we live, you can't rent your condo. Own it, live in it, or sell it.

@mickey2942 bbm Good point. Some absentee owners who never occupy their units may have the kind of mind-set you describe and vote against any increased fees & special assessments, well, because $.
Some owners, esp'ly snowbird/seasonal residents, it could be tempting to rent out their units. Ditto for yr-rounders who don't think about delayed maintenance dangers, or just retirees squeezed for $.
I wonder how Champaign condo’s governing doc's addressed the rental issue. I read something (sorry, no link) prompting me to think some unit owners rent out their places thru AirBnB, VRBO, or equivalent leasing agency.

Short term rentals may draw week-end partiers, frat house crowd, corp.-sponsored getaways, spring breakers, etc. IOW, guests who may be undesirable to condo owner residents. my2ct.

I'm aware some condo by-laws -
--- prohibit condo owners from renting their units, like yours. Period, capital P
--- allow owners to rent for a minimum term of one year.
--- prohibit leases of less than 30, 60, or 90 days.

 

[Marysmith]

Champaign Tower. To Rent or Not to Rent?
@mickey2942 bbm Good point. Some absentee owners who never occupy their units may have the kind of mind-set you describe and vote against any increased fees & special assessments, well, because $.
Some owners, esp'ly snowbird/seasonal residents, it could be tempting to rent out their units. Ditto for yr-rounders who don't think about delayed maintenance dangers, or just retirees squeezed for $.
I wonder how Champaign condo’s governing doc's addressed the rental issue. I read something (sorry, no link) prompting me to think some unit owners rent out their places thru AirBnB, VRBO, or equivalent leasing agency.

Short term rentals may draw week-end partiers, frat house crowd, corp.-sponsored getaways, spring breakers, etc. IOW, guests who may be undesirable to condo owner residents. my2ct.

I'm aware some condo by-laws -
--- prohibit condo owners from renting their units, like yours. Period, capital P
--- allow owners to rent for a minimum term of one year.
--- prohibit leases of less than 30, 60, or 90 days.

Also those poor renters who had no idea there were any problems with the building trusted their landlords, you know?
Where we are it’s an issue too - more so with our condo board being full of people who own 2 or more suites and don’t live in any having no idea or seeming to care about the day to day issues… like safety in our exposed parking area for one thing. So maybe that was an issue with this building as well.

 

[mickey2942]

Also those poor renters who had no idea there were any problems with the building trusted their landlords, you know?
Where we are it’s an issue too - more so with our condo board being full of people who own 2 or more suites and don’t live in any having no idea or seeming to care about the day to day issues… like safety in our exposed parking area for one thing. So maybe that was an issue with this building as well.

This may be something to bring up at the next meeting. And people who own more units, should not be able to have more "votes" than people who own one unit. Especially on issues that affect safety.

It seems to me, that in Surfside, the loudest people, who did not want to have the assessment fees, were the ones who were blocking the process to fix the building problems.

Something to consider, for people who live in condominiums.

 

[Arkay]

I’m sure the fees are higher though because of all the issues… and it’s the coast off Miami. I’ve lived in a couple different condos - 1 in Florida but not on the coast - and those are high! To live there in Sunrise you don’t have a lot of choices but condo living.
ETA: and I get it and that’s a beautiful location and I would do it too if I worked there, etc… it’s a dream.

I think it's the old maxim---location, location, location. It costs more to live right on the coast, as you mentioned.

My parents have a condo in Florida, one of those low-rises in a gated community. Not right near the ocean. Their monthly HOA fees are pretty high, but much of that goes beyond the maintenance aspect. It's for the amenities that so many retired people cherish--the clubhouse and all the activities that certainly enriched the lives of my parents.

For a condo like Surfside, those fees actually don't even sound that high to me. If I had lived there, maybe I'd have been able to afford the assessments that were necessary, or maybe it would be too much of a stretch. But even the wealthiest people, who had the most luxurious of the condos there, may have balked at 6 digits being added on to whatever they already paid.

In hindsight, obviously the urgency was not understood. It certainly doesn't appear that the residents were concerned that peril was imminent, or they would have moved out. I get that same sick feeling that you get when, for example, you wish JFK had let the Secret Service put the roof on the car. Or someone made sure Diana was wearing a seatbelt. Or all the other tragedies that are obvious in hindsight.

The heart just breaks.

 

[IQuestion]

General questions to fellow sleuths...can anyone post a picture of the "rotted storage units in the garage area" and how close are they to the electrical panels? Thank you. ie from page 13 of letter that went out to homeowners "Replacement of storage areas in garage -Fire Hazard - Rotted" https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/miamiletter0628.pdf
It also requested, because of severe rusting, a new 6" pipe (almost 11 feet needed to be replaced) a 60hp pump capable of pumping 750 gallons per minute. That is a lot of water. And, the sound of construction (banging on the walls per Sara Nir) which is why she went to the front desk in the first place could have been a "popping" sound instead.
I'm not into conspiracy theory about this. I just think there was more than one issue going on each causing an exponentially larger event. If I told you a 6 inch block could bring down an entire building, many would be skeptical or even claim impossible. But, imagine a building that is already structurally compromised.
small domino knocks over giant domino gifs | WiffleGif

 

[IQuestion]

I don't do FB or Youtube sign ins...too old to remember that many passwords. Can the great guy who post from Building Integrity try a scenario in which the catalyst was a fire in the electrical area, breaking rusted water line, the garage wall partially caving in knocking out some columns near the garage entrance, then causing the compromised pool deck to collapse and slide into more structural columns....
I ruled out a vehicle hitting a column pretty early on. Obviously even a car hitting one column could not bring down an entire building...if that were the possible....no building would ever have underground parking, right?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don't do FB or Youtube sign ins...too old to remember that many passwords. Can the great guy who post from Building Integrity try a scenario in which the catalyst was a fire in the electrical area, breaking rusted water line, the garage wall partially caving in knocking out some columns near the garage entrance, then causing the compromised pool deck to collapse and slide into more structural columns....
I ruled out a vehicle hitting a column pretty early on. Obviously even a car hitting one column could not bring down an entire building...if that were the possible....no building would ever have underground parking, right?

I think that both 1) Building Integrity YT channel and 2) Construction Engineering & Failure Analysis YT channel (both engineers) are continuing to do more and more YouTubes based on updated opinions/analysis of what if's with new videos hitting MSM etc. #3 guy that is not an engineer, but gets the videos from private folks and often first to put them on the net... may also continue to do more.

As to evidence of an electrical short or fire starting this cascade of events... dunno. Certainly a timeline to be done with the noises by one person, the in/out etc. by the guy that went back for a bit and his timing, the video of the water and dropping of the ceiling soffit of the underground roof etc. But I did listen to the first 3 1/2 hours of all the dispatches and coordination immediately after collapse (that is on net in full) and one of the first things that they did was air studies even before S&R allowed in.

As with all WS cases, opinions change as more information comes in... but for some time, MOO I believe that shearing off (now learning the name is "punchshear") is part of the initial stages of the collapse.... leading to a true domino effect. And the reason the second left standing part remained was due to the shear wall with the large area of storage/elevator shaft/stairwell supporting area, and the much larger support columns that that side of the building had vs. the other. (and also possibly that the pool deck was more "attached" to the section that fell initially, vs. the section that failed.)

Still learning, but I think more videos by these engineers are forthcoming they stated.

 

[IQuestion]

DIXIE I totally agree on the shear wall being so strong it kept the Collins side of building from collapsing. I have listened to the words of Mayor Levine-Cava when she said, "We will get to the bottom of this." Ironically, the answer to this tragedy is at the bottom of this building, IMO.
This is the from a man who left the building and why I am wondering if an "electrical problem" was a result or a catalyst. He reports lights not working in his unit at 10:30PM Wednesday.... almost 3 hours before the collapse. He was in unit #508. It would be interesting to know if anyone in the same area called up to the front desk and reported their power was out, too? Do any videos prior to collapse show flickering lights or an unusual amount of units with lights going out around 10PM on Wednesday night. ( And, investigators are asking anyone with videos & pics prior to the collapse to send it to them. Many had probably already shut off lights and gone to bed, and wouldn't have noticed.)
"A stroke of dumb luck might well have saved Eric Zion’s life. He lives in the Champlain Towers South building and he said he got back from a trip at about 10:30pm Wednesday night and, for some reason, the lights were shut off in his apartment. He doesn't know why his power was out but it pushed him to make a decision that he and his wife were going to rent a hotel room in the neighborhood just for the night. They planned to figure out the power situation in the morning."
(scroll to the bottom 1/3rd of article... to read his explanations)
'I Felt The Entire Room Shake.' Partial Building Collapse In Surfside Leaves One Dead, Many Injured

 

[Dontknow?]

Saira Anwer
@SairaWPLG
·
1m

Day 19 in Surfside:
@MayorDaniella
announces number of confirmed victims is now 94. 83 identified. 80 families notified. #surfside #ChamplainTowersSouth


CBS4 Miami
@CBSMiami
·
1m

WATCH LIVE:
@MayorDaniella
Levine Cava says death toll at Surfside condo collapse has increased to 94. 83 of those have been identified and 90 next of kin notified. There are 22 are potentially unaccounted for. LIVE: https://cbsloc.al/2YKv7T6

 

[IQuestion]

Deleted By Me

 

[dixiegirl1035]

DIXIE I totally agree on the shear wall being so strong it kept the Collins side of building from collapsing. I have listened to the words of Mayor Levine-Cava when she said, "We will get to the bottom of this." Ironically, the answer to this tragedy is at the bottom of this building, IMO.
This is the from a man who left the building and why I am wondering if an "electrical problem" was a result or a catalyst. He reports lights not working in his unit at 10:30PM Wednesday.... almost 3 hours before the collapse. He was in unit #508. It would be interesting to know if anyone in the same area called up to the front desk and reported their power was out, too? Do any videos prior to collapse show flickering lights or an unusual amount of units with lights going out around 10PM on Wednesday night. ( And, investigators are asking anyone with videos & pics prior to the collapse to send it to them. Many had probably already shut off lights and gone to bed, and wouldn't have noticed.)
"A stroke of dumb luck might well have saved Eric Zion’s life. He lives in the Champlain Towers South building and he said he got back from a trip at about 10:30pm Wednesday night and, for some reason, the lights were shut off in his apartment. He doesn't know why his power was out but it pushed him to make a decision that he and his wife were going to rent a hotel room in the neighborhood just for the night. They planned to figure out the power situation in the morning."
(scroll to the bottom 1/3rd of article... to read his explanations)
'I Felt The Entire Room Shake.' Partial Building Collapse In Surfside Leaves One Dead, Many Injured

One person, who I'm assuming is alive and a major person for information that we have not heard from... is the "front desk person" . He's the one who would have had funneled calls for issues such as electricity out, heard the original sounds near him on bottom floor, etc. AFAIK, he has never spoken to media, but referred to by others.

BTW, does anyone have at their fingertips the floorplan to cut/paste of the floor that the front desk person was at, where the folks went "next door" to tell him and discuss the noises etc? (Cannot at this moment recall the name of the family next door on that floor that got out safely)