FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[KALI]

I'm guessing high rise condo sales are about to depreciate.

That condo sold for $2,880,000! Much higher than the $600K to $700K I've read.

 

[Chelly]

Unit owners are suing the "condo association" but building ownership not stated. Has anyone seen reporting of who or what owns the building?
Surfside Condo Owners Are Suing The Collapsed Building's Association
Owners of units in the Champlain Towers South condo complex near Miami have filed a class-action lawsuit after their building partially collapsed on Thursday. As of Friday morning, 159 people remain unaccounted for, as rescue crews work at the scene.

The owners say the condo association failed to "secure and safeguard the lives and property" of plaintiff Manuel Drezner and other owners, according to the complaint that was filed by the Brad Sohn Law Firm.

 

[Chelly]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...0babfa-d511-11eb-9f29-e9e6c9e843c6_story.html
A large percentage of condo unit owners and renters are from South America. I wonder if a S. American corporation owns the building?

 

[moonriverfarm]

That article is behind a paywall - any other links?

 

[whitelilac]

The Miami-area apartment building that crashed to the ground in a horrifying early-morning collapse Thursday had been experiencing “issues” for years, and it was even the subject of a scientific study last year that warned of it sinking into the earth.

The Champlain Towers complex in Surfside, Florida, was the subject of at least one lawsuit over the maintenance of the structure’s outer walls. In addition, the building attracted the attention of scientists alarmed over flooding and land Erosion

Kobi Karp, an architect who has practiced in Miami since the late 1980s, said the construction method used in South Florida has been the standard since the 1920s, and it is “the most structurally sound and safest way to build structures, whether it’s a two-story home or a high-rise.”
“So even a building built in the 1980s is a relatively young building,” Karp told The Daily Beast, adding that the event that led to the building’s collapse “could have occurred in the past 24 hours or in the past 24 months.”

But, he said, “the cause is either a structural event that occurred because they were working on the roof and put too much load concentrated in a certain area, and/or there was somebody working on the structure and created a cut or damage that caused structural failure. In both scenarios, it seems to be a man-made cause.”
‘Something Off’: Miami Collapse Complex Had Issues

I don't think I agree with this assessment. Being in the same profession as Mr. Karp, my feeling is that such a catastrophic collapse was due to failure underneath the building. If too much load was concentrated on the roof area, collapse would have occurred in the top level or two, not the entire building pancaking all the way down. I believe the cause was structural failure due to severe failure of the foundation area....possibly due to increasing instability as a result of sea water seepage over time, and/or a sudden collapse of the fill. I have been involved in a couple of lawsuits of shoddy "cut corners" work where contractors have not followed engineering structural calculations, where a roof caved in, and in other compromised structural issues, but never such that an entire 12 story building would, or have the potential of entire collapse.

 

[dotr]

Miami building collapse: Surfside, Florida, condo search continues
''SURFSIDE, Fla. – Almost 160 people are unaccounted for Friday morning, a day after a 12-story beachfront condominium building just north of Miami collapsed, killing at least four people.

Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava confirmed the increased missing and death toll at a Friday news conference and said the first responders were still searching for any signs of life.

"We will continue search and rescue because we still have hope that we will find people alive," Levine Cava said.''

''Rescues crews encountered the three additional deaths while working overnight, Miami-Dade Fire official Raide Jadallah said. Rescuers are using light machinery to tunnel through the rubble underneath, and crews have heard sounds, though it's unclear what they were, he said.''

''The first lawsuit, seeking $5 million in damages for the victims of the condo collapse, was filed late Thursday.''

 

[Dontknow?]

Not sure if this one has been posted yet. If it has, please scroll on by...

U.S.
Video shows standing water underneath Surfside building, long-standing concern of residents before collapse

 

[BOSCOE]

My small city requires permits, plans, multiple inspections for remodeling/renovations even for single family home. I just can't imagine the same including more requirements for a structure like this.

MOO

 

[SeattleStew]

I don't think I agree with this assessment. Being in the same profession as Mr. Karp, my feeling is that such a catastrophic collapse was due to failure underneath the building. If too much load was concentrated on the roof area, collapse would have occurred in the top level or two, not the entire building pancaking all the way down. I believe the cause was structural failure due to severe failure of the foundation area....possibly due to increasing instability as a result of sea water seepage over time, and/or a sudden collapse of the fill. I have been involved in a couple of lawsuits of shoddy "cut corners" work where contractors have not followed engineering structural calculations, where a roof caved in, and in other compromised structural issues, but never such that an entire 12 story building would, or have the potential of entire collapse.

@whitelilac That is very interesting! Thank you so much for sharing your professional feeling about this. I'm sure your experience will be very valuable to those of us following this as time progresses. Please do keep posting.

I'm wondering, does this sea water seepage damage/collapse happen on a smaller scale with more frequency? Private homes built on the waterfront etc. Since I'm from the West Coast I'm very familiar with beach erosion and the damage it can cause. TIA.

 

[CrimeAway]

I’ve read so many different news reports, some report 99 missing and others report 159. Those are the two numbers I keep seeing.

My understanding is that the number of unaccounted for was 99 last night, but that was updated to 159 this morning. I believe that the Mayor said that number is fluid, and subject to change however.

What a tragedy.

 

[SeattleStew]

Not sure if this one has been posted yet. If it has, please scroll on by...

U.S.
Video shows standing water underneath Surfside building, long-standing concern of residents before collapse

Thank you for posting. From the article:

"While officials have not yet announced a definitive cause for the building's collapse, Surfside Town Commissioner Eliana Salzhauer recently told the Miami Herald that the building's residents previously expressed concerns over the water in the basement parking garage that leaked from the second-floor pool deck."

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
South Florida building collapse near Miami: Live updates

Lynne Sladky/AP
''A group of 80 firefighters will be assisting with search and rescue efforts at the collapse site in Surfside, Miami Mayor Francis Suarez told local reporters.

The firefighters are members of Florida Task Force 2, known as FL-TF 2. They will be assisting Florida Task Force 1 team (FL-TF 1), which is already on scene, said Suarez.

"Florida is one of the few states in the nation that has multiple urban search and rescue teams," Suarez said.

"We have experience in 9/11, Haiti, and in [Hurricane] Dorian, most recently, so it's a very experienced team that has had success in similar situations," Suarez added.''

''Emergency visa for family members of the victims in the condo collapse are being granted and many family members have already arrived in South Florida, Sen. Marco Rubio tweeted.

At least 31 people are still unaccounted for from six Latin American countries.''

 

[indicolite22]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...0babfa-d511-11eb-9f29-e9e6c9e843c6_story.html
A large percentage of condo unit owners and renters are from South America. I wonder if a S. American corporation owns the building?

Boca News Now website has published a list of all condo owners. It's a mix of individuals/couples, but also LLCs and investment groups.

 

[Lore Listener]

You've brought up some excellent points in your posts. Something is really bothering me about this besides the obvious loss of life.

My prayers and thoughts to all involved and affected by this tragedy and miracles in the rescue efforts.

.

Something is bothering me too about this. Simply put, it is what is beneath and surrounding these high-rises.

I agree with you both. Here in Denver, homeownership rates are extremely low. Developers refuse to build condos and instead build tens of thousands of apartments, and have stated that this is because owners can legally sue them for shoddy construction whereas renters cannot. (Of course, they don't say it that way, they say "There's too much legal liability building condos! Change the law for us to give us legal immunity for cutting corners!") And they were somewhat successful in 2017 in doing so because developers and "business interests" have free reign in this town due to our very corrupt mayor. I wonder if it is the same in FL?
It could be a few years before Denver developers start adding condos

All that to say, developers and property managers have been fighting any and all regulation on them and their ability to maximize profits without consequence for decades, in many places with great success. And then when a building falls down...

 

[whitelilac]

@whitelilac That is very interesting! Thank you so much for sharing your professional feeling about this. I'm sure your experience will be very valuable to those of us following this as time progresses. Please do keep posting.

I'm wondering, does this sea water seepage damage/collapse happen on a smaller scale with more frequency? Private homes built on the waterfront etc. Since I'm from the West Coast I'm very familiar with beach erosion and the damage it can cause. TIA.

I'm from the west coast also, and in fact I do have a settlement issue under the back mostly terrace portion my own 60 year old house. It's not due to sea water seepage, but because I live on the edge of a steep slope. Both water and the moving earth/fill are causing this on homes on my entire street. I'm in the process of how to best address this in stabilizing the motion with retaining walls and pylons. But it goes to show that over time there can be changes to the land a structure is sitting on, unless it is built on solid bedrock.

 

[branmuffin]

8777 Collins Ave PENTHOUSE A, Miami Beach, FL 33154 | Zillow

Just sold in May.

That's 3 million bucks down the drain. I think it was the corner unit of the north tower. I wonder if insurance claims would cover that type of damage.

 

[PayrollNerd]

Not minimizing the loss of life in this is a horrific tragedy, but the number one reason this building collapsed is, location. At the time it was built, it passed inspection. This building went thru Hurricane Andrew in 1992 when it was about 10-11 years old. Did they have tiny cameras back then to go into walls to survey damage? Not likely.

Could they have done more to inspect, repair, shore up or strengthen the building over the year? Sure but would the owners have been willing to see their fees increase to the extent they needed to? Not likely. That is a common gripe among HOA participants, as it is hard to grasp the cost of a huge building's maintenance. Over the years, how many more hurricanes came thru and what about the rise of the sea level over time? Mother Nature is indiscriminate and unforgiving.

I don't see how anyone can be held accountable financially. Hopefully, there was homeowner's insurance on every unit. That is likely where most of the restitution will originate from. A decade from now, they'll still be reeling from and dealing with this sad mess. These poor people and their families.

 

[Herat]

Not sure if this one has been posted yet. If it has, please scroll on by...

U.S.
Video shows standing water underneath Surfside building, long-standing concern of residents before collapse

The comment was made that residents had complained about water in the underground parking garage coming from the swimming pool.

Those incredibly brave firefighters and rscue personnel are standing in brackish ground water, from some subsidence of the foundation. That is not from the swimming pool. That entire shoreline is a barrier island and it may have a soil and concrete/ rock fill, but it is going to be porous and prone to degradation and seawater damage.

The forensic analysis of this may be quite complicate due to the recent construction of the adjacent hotel, and the impact of it's ground preparation on the adjacent land.

I think there is going to be a signifiant problem in these Florida seaside areas from now on.

 

[indicolite22]

Not minimizing the loss of life in this is a horrific tragedy, but the number one reason this building collapsed is, location. At the time it was built, it passed inspection. This building went thru Hurricane Andrew in 1992 when it was about 10-11 years old. Did they have tiny cameras back then to go into walls to survey damage? Not likely.

SBM. I think one of the clues is in the middle section collapsing first. Was foundation weakened in that part due to water leakage in the basement garage? I'm not sure if hurricane damage would be a big factor.

 

[Knitty]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...0babfa-d511-11eb-9f29-e9e6c9e843c6_story.html
A large percentage of condo unit owners and renters are from South America. I wonder if a S. American corporation owns the building?

The building is owned by the unit owners. One of the jobs of the HOA is to address maintenance of the building. HOAs are commonly administered by a company set up to do just that. My HOA (of not a condo but a regular neighborhood) recently underwent a change in the company administering our community because the previous one was not doing a good job with communication to the residents. If we have a complaint, we don't have to track down the president or other board members; we can contact the administrator and they are supposed to take problems to the appropriate board member. There were multiple companies to choose from, and they don't only administer one HOA.