FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[Lore Listener]

The Miami Herald's heartbreaking list of the missing can be found here:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252362358.html

There are so many people, the magnitude of this tragedy just floors you.

Edit: The copied photos aren't showing, so this is just the names.

Andres Levine

Moises Rodan

Raymond and Mercedes Urgelles

Luis Sadovnic and Nicole ”Nicky” Langesfeld

Linda March

Jose A Gonzalez and wife Maria Gonzalez

Brad Cohen, Gary Cohen, Elisheva Cohen

Luis Fernando Barth, 51, wife Catalina Gómez, 44, and 14-year-old daughter Valeria Barth were visiting and staying in the building.

Frank Kleiman and his wife Annie Ortiz Kleiman and son Luis Bermudez

Jay Kleiman

Nancy Kleiman

Ilan Naibryf

Deborah Berezdevin

Richard George Rovirosa, 60, and wife Maria G. Rovirosa

Silvana Lopez Moreira, niece Sophia Lopez and husband Luis Pettengill

Jose A. Gonzalez and wife Maria Gonzalez

Angela, Julio and Terry Velasquez

Marina Azen

Elaine Sabino

Dick Augustine

Arnie Notkin and Myriam Caspi Notkin

Michael Altman

Judy Spiegel

Estelle Hedaya

Graci Cattarossi and daughter Stella

Edgar Gonzalez

Juan Mora, Sr., and Ana Mora

Juan Mora

Maricoy Obias-Bonnefoy, 69 and Claudio Obias-Bonnefoy, 85

Alfredo Leone and his son Lorenzo

Cassondra Stratton

Lois Marcus

Chaya Gila bas Yehudis

Ilan Ben Ronit

Andres Galfrascoli, Fabian Nunez and daughter Sofia Nunez

Hilda Noriega

Vishal Patel and his wife, Bhavna, and their 1-year-old daughter, Aishani

Gil and Betty Guerra

Leidy Luna Villalba

Francis R. Plasencia

Maggie Vazquez-Bello

Rosa Saez

Bonnie and David Epstein

Gladys and Antonio Lozano

Cristina and Leon Oliwkowicz

Marcus and Ana Guara, along with their 11-year-old & 4-year-old daughters Lucia & Emma

Simon Segal

Any information about the following people (listed by their Hebrew names), please contact Chabad of South Broward

Ari Ben Ita

Moshe Ben Shoshana

Moshe Ben Toba

Lein Ben Ilana

Yehuda Arie Ben Fejga Rivkah

Rut Bat Sara

Devorah Bat Clara

Chaim Ben Sara

Malka Bas Sara Rochel

Yisroel Tzvi Yosef Ben Toiba

Tzvi Doniel Ben Yehudis

Ita Bat Miriam

Leibl Ben Feigue Rivka

Myriam Notkin and husband Arnie Notkin

Miriam Bat Sara

Ilan Naibryf and his mother, Karen

Ilan Ben Avraham

Mikael Ben Hans

Gabriela Bat Sarah

Leib Ben Shoshana

Sarah Bat Ida

Nancy Bat Sofia

Franky Ben Nancy

Deborah Bat Haia

Jay Ben Nancy

Nicole Bat Andrea

Yaakov Reuvein Hacohen Ben Devorah

Nancy Kress Levin

 

[SouthAussie]

<RSBM>

I do hope this is a wake up call to developers. So unbelievably tragic.

If US developers are anything like Aussie developers, they don't care. They will develop on any parcel of land that the local authorities allow them to build on.

We have developers that have put huge subdivisions on flood plains in Queensland. The authorities allowed them to do that. Is it any surprise that the homes were all flooded and damaged - lives lost and severely affected - during massive rains and dam overflow a few years back?

It truly is up to the local authorities to reign them in. Not allow development in insuitable places. Especially high rise development and large subdivision development where so many people can come to grief.

IMO

 

[Dontknow?]

The Feds Are Already Looking Into Surfside Collapse. What Should We Expect From Them?

A team of six scientists and engineers from the National Institute of Standards and Technology have been dispatched to Surfside to begin investigating the collapse of the Champlain Towers South condo building, which has officially left four dead and more than 150 people still unaccounted for.

The federal agency was given the authority to investigate building collapses after the attacks of 9/11.

The Feds Are Already Looking Into Surfside Collapse. What Should We Expect From Them?

 

[Warwick1991]

The Feds Are Already Looking Into Surfside Collapse. What Should We Expect From Them?

A team of six scientists and engineers from the National Institute of Standards and Technology have been dispatched to Surfside to begin investigating the collapse of the Champlain Towers South condo building, which has officially left four dead and more than 150 people still unaccounted for.

The federal agency was given the authority to investigate building collapses after the attacks of 9/11.

The Feds Are Already Looking Into Surfside Collapse. What Should We Expect From Them?

NIST involvement is one of the few bits of good news here. The expertise and thoroughness they bring to to an inquiry is very valuable. The findings are public, unlike investigations that can be hidden by a legal settlement. In addition, NIST works for the public interest, not for any particular interest or predetermined outcome. As long as their investigation is not brought to a halt by some special interest, the findings should be of great value.

 

[Warwick1991]

SBM. I think one of the clues is in the middle section collapsing first. Was foundation weakened in that part due to water leakage in the basement garage? I'm not sure if hurricane damage would be a big factor.

I agree that the middle section, which contained stairwells and elevators - the core of the building - was initial point of failure. Usually, these cores are major structural elements that provide support and rigidity for other parts of the building. Failure of the core initiates a domino effect. The garage could be a source of foundation failure. Garages in these areas have to be drained and the water removed. If there was a broken pipe under a floor drain in the garage, water could have scoured away material from underneath the floor slabs. One would think that cracks would have been visible though…

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree that the middle section, which contained stairwells and elevators - the core of the building - was initial point of failure. Usually, these cores are major structural elements that provide support and rigidity for other parts of the building. Failure of the core initiates a domino effect. The garage could be a source of foundation failure. Garages in these areas have to be drained and the water removed. If there was a broken pipe under a floor drain in the garage, water could have scoured away material from underneath the floor slabs. One would think that cracks would have been visible though…

I think the recurring external cracking (the cause of two lawsuits by a resident) is a sure sign that there were long term foundation issues.
The lawsuits were in 2015 and 2001. The building was built in 1981.
Within 20 years, cracks were showing and allowing water into the apartment. 14 years later more cracks. And they didn't inspect building integrity (I don't think) until the 40 year mark.

 

[PayrollNerd]

I think the recurring external cracking (the cause of two lawsuits by a resident) is a sure sign that there were long term foundation issues.
The lawsuits were in 2015 and 2001. The building was built in 1981.
Within 20 years, cracks were showing and allowing water into the apartment. 14 years later more cracks. And they didn't inspect building integrity (I don't think) until the 40 year mark.

If anyone deserves equitable compensation and restitution, it is this owner. They sure tried......

 

[Warwick1991]

I think the recurring external cracking (the cause of two lawsuits by a resident) is a sure sign that there were long term foundation issues.
The lawsuits were in 2015 and 2001. The building was built in 1981.
Within 20 years, cracks were showing and allowing water into the apartment. 14 years later more cracks. And they didn't inspect building integrity (I don't think) until the 40 year mark.

It would be helpful to have pictures of the cracks from 2001 and 2015, with descriptions of the their locations. Such documentation and a report undoubtedly accompanied the lawsuits. Cracks in buildings are signatures, and their direction, width and location are indicators of the cause. No doubt this earlier lawsuit will be examined by NIST.

That said, cracks in this building could have been a failure of gaskets or sealants at joints - we don’t know yet. If water was entering the building on a regular basis and sitting on concrete, the concrete at the building perimeter could be badly damaged.

 

[SouthAussie]

It would be helpful to have pictures of the cracks from 2001 and 2015, with descriptions of the their locations. Such documentation and a report undoubtedly accompanied the lawsuits. Cracks in buildings are signatures, and their direction, width and location are indicators of the cause. No doubt this earlier lawsuit will be examined by NIST.

That said, cracks in this building could have been a failure of gaskets or sealants at joints - we don’t know yet. If water was entering the building on a regular basis and sitting on concrete, the concrete at the building perimeter could be badly damaged.

As far as the 2015 lawsuit ....


In 2015, Matilde Fainstein filed for damages in the Miami-Dade Circuit Court, saying the building's owners "failed to repair or negligently repaired the common elements and the outside walls of the building."

The year before, water had started coming in through cracks in the outer wall to Fainstein's terrace, causing damage, the complaint said. The filing said she had previously taken the same issue to court, where the building's owners were found liable.

The collapsed Florida condo was part of a 2015 lawsuit where a resident complained the outer walls weren't being properly maintained

 

[branmuffin]

I've lived in North Florida most of my life. Not a building expert, but I believe that the 40-year inspection/recertification requirement is not statewide, but unique to Miami-Dade and Broward Counties.
Some info on it (Broward County): Understanding the Recertification Process - 40-Year Inspections

A very informative article on the history of the area's reinspection requirement is here: After A DEA Building Collapsed In 1974, Engineer Created Recertification Program To Prevent Future Disasters
The article interviews the county engineer who first developed the requirement after a 1974 office building collapse in downtown Miami:
"In 1974, when the federal Drug Enforcement Agency building in downtown Miami collapsed, John Pistorino was early in his engineering career working for the county as a consulting engineer.

The collapse killed seven federal employees and injured 16 people.

Six tons of rubble left behind led Pistorino to conclude that concrete buildings in South Florida can face particular risks. The aggregate rock used in concrete can contain salt which, combined with the humidity and salty ocean air, can corrode reinforcing steel.

“When the reinforcing steel corrodes, it expands and cracks the concrete. It loses all of its structural capacity,” he said.

While collapsing buildings, then and now, are extremely rare, Pistorino came up with Miami-Dade's recertification program used in many cities — including Surfside — and in Broward County. It requires buildings to be inspected at 40 years old — about the age of the DEA building when it fell.

“That's where the 40 came from" said Pistorino, who has been president of Pistorino and Alam Consulting Engineers since 1986."

Thank you for the clarification. I did read the article before about the DEA deaths regarding the 1974 building collapse.

I have a feeling that the east coast of Florida and other states that have built excessively on barrier islands will be susceptible to a different type of potential disaster that California has with the San Andreas fault. If barrier islands are made of moveable erodible sand where the sand migrates from the front of a barrier island to the back then that suggests that a dangerous shelf could be created under numerous buildings.

It must be very unsettling to live in that area and see the aftermath of the collapse.

 

[SouthAussie]

Here is the 2015 lawsuit complaint.

https://www.scribd.com/document/512921705/Wall-Damage

In Exhibit B, it seems to indicate that there were also two 3rd party defendants.

1. Tong LE PE Inc (google says a Professional Engineer based in Margate FL)
2. Western Waterproofing Co of America

 

[Warwick1991]

As far as the 2015 lawsuit ....


In 2015, Matilde Fainstein filed for damages in the Miami-Dade Circuit Court, saying the building's owners "failed to repair or negligently repaired the common elements and the outside walls of the building."

The year before, water had started coming in through cracks in the outer wall to Fainstein's terrace, causing damage, the complaint said. The filing said she had previously taken the same issue to court, where the building's owners were found liable.

The collapsed Florida condo was part of a 2015 lawsuit where a resident complained the outer walls weren't being properly maintained

If the damage is in the balcony area, which can also be described as a terrace, this might be localized damage. The description doesn’t make it clear whether the water was coming into the interior of Fainstein’s unit, or whether the damage was on a balcony. It would be important to see pictures of the exact location of the cracks, and whether water was entering the interior. Balcony damage is common in South Florida, but is usually repairable. At the Champlain Towers, the balcony design had solid walls instead of railings.

 

[Warwick1991]

Here is the 2015 lawsuit complaint.

https://www.scribd.com/document/512921705/Wall-Damage

In Exhibit B, it seems to indicate that there were also two 3rd party defendants.

1. Tong LE PE Inc (google says a Professional Engineer based in Margate FL)
2. Western Waterproofing Co of America

IIRC Western Waterproofing was the name of a company that made liquid waterproof coatings for exterior surfaces. I don’t know if they’re still in business. Many products of this type have had problems. I would guess that they made a defective product as far as this application was concerned. I would guess that Tong LE designed some repairs that did not work….

The complaint seems to indicate that the damage is from a crack in an exterior wall adjacent to the terrace. I think a detailed report done on behalf of Ms. Fainstein would have had more information. In order to win in court, she would have to have had such a report.

 

[Dontknow?]

CBS Evening News
@CBSEveningNews

Smoke can be seen billowing from the rubble in Surfside, Florida, but also from the part of the building that remains standing. Officials say they’re concerned about the structural integrity and risk to rescuers.

video at link
https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/1408590867175198728?s=20

 

[Warwick1991]

The Washington Post has an interesting short article about the Fainstein water damage case: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...live-updates/#link-7WZEI43MSBCF3N5WMRBRJJYMZI

Quote: "Daniel Wagner said rusted steel and corroded concrete contributed to the water damage caused inside his client’s first-floor unit." This means the damage was well beyond balcony damage.

Wagner was Fainstein's attorney.

 

[dotr]

Names and pics of the unaccounted for people @ link, hoping each and every one of them are found soon.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252362358.html
rbbm.
''Families across the world wait for news about loved ones who are unaccounted for.
Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said Friday that 159 people are missing, based on data collected at the reunification site and missing person reports. Four people have been confirmed deceased and 120 people have been accounted for, she said.
People with missing loved ones should call the family reunification hotline at 305-614-1819, visit the family reunification center, which moved Friday to the Grand Beach Hotel, 9449 Collins Ave., or open a missing person report online. Those who survived the collapse should fill out a wellness check form online.''

''Here is a list of names of people who have been reported missing after the partial collapse of the Champlain Towers South condominium in Surfside.''

Cassondra Stratton, Woman With Colorado Ties, Still Not Found As Search Continues At Site Of Miami-Area Condo Building Collapse
''Mike Stratton, a prominent Colorado political strategist, has flown out to the Miami area.
He released a statement on Friday thanking all “…the brave men and women working around the clock in unimaginable conditions to bring her and others home.”

(credit: Mike Stratton)
''Mike Stratton’s full statement lies below:
Thank you to everyone who has reached out and is keeping Cassie in their thoughts and prayers, but most of all to the brave men and women working around the clock in unimaginable conditions to bring her and others home. Our family is forever grateful. Cassie is a wife, mother and true friend to so many. She brings a vivacious love of life to everything she does — whether as an actress, model or Pilates instructor. Thank you again for your continued prayers.''

 

[IQuestion]

The Washington Post has an interesting short article about the Fainstein water damage case: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...live-updates/#link-7WZEI43MSBCF3N5WMRBRJJYMZI

Quote: "Daniel Wagner said rusted steel and corroded concrete contributed to the water damage caused inside his client’s first-floor unit." This means the damage was well beyond balcony damage.

Wagner was Fainstein's attorney.

Thank you Warwick! Interesting "rusted steel and corroded concrete contributed to the water damage." Perhaps one could use the reverse process and possibly conclude "water contributed to rusted steel and corroded concrete."???
It has made me wonder why 1st responders are having to stand knee deep in water? Potable water, broken main, underground aquifer or sea water.... is there a reason it is not being pumped out for the safety of the workers? Standing water in a building is never a good thing. Experts please weigh in. (Ugh, hope that wasn't too confusing...I haven't posted in a loooong time.)

 

[Dontknow?]

Before retiring, I was a purchasing manager for several lumber yards. When living In Florida, I had witnessed welded wire rust within 3 days after delivery. Nice and blue/grey upon delivery but brown rust that fast. Rebar also. Corrugated would get a white oxidation fast. Many builders told me the rusted metal (not corrugated) would hold up better in concrete if rusted. I think they lied to me.

 

[Warwick1991]

Thank you Warwick! Interesting "rusted steel and corroded concrete contributed to the water damage." Perhaps one could use the reverse process and possibly conclude "water contributed to rusted steel and corroded concrete."???
It has made me wonder why 1st responders are having to stand knee deep in water? Potable water, broken main, underground aquifer or sea water.... is there a reason it is not being pumped out for the safety of the workers? Standing water in a building is never a good thing. Experts please weigh in. (Ugh, hope that wasn't too confusing...I haven't posted in a loooong time.)

I think the attorney did have it backwards. Water will rust the steel rebars, and the rusting steel expands to displace the concrete.

The knee-deep water probably has a number of sources…. Heavy rain entering the garage, with no means to pump it out.. Broken potable water lines, even though water has been shut off.. Sprinkler lines, if present, would have been broken…. Water from firefighting efforts.. And, we don’t know, but there could be water saturated soil or voids under the garage. I’m an architect, and looking at this with great interest. I look forward to a thorough, impartial investigation. At this point, I fear for the safety of the first responders. Although I hope I’m wrong, I don’t think there’s anyone left alive in that pile.

 

[SouthAussie]

Wasn't it said that the pool was on the 2nd floor? If so, it sounds as if the building pancaked from bottom to top, as this (missing) person on the 4th floor watched the pool cave in.


From her fourth-floor balcony, Cassandra Stratton, 40, was on the phone with her husband as she watched the pool cave in, feeling the tremor, her older sister Ashley Dean said. She described the quake, and then, in a moment, the line cut off.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...live-updates/#link-7WZEI43MSBCF3N5WMRBRJJYMZI