FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[indicolite22]

JamieInLA....Thank you for the side by side photos. It appears there is a square building by the pool....could it be the cabana? And then in the "after" photo the structure is totally destroyed. (or broke off and tumbled into the parking area below.) So I am thinking part of the "pool area" did collapse or at least appeared to collapse to an observer at night and during the ensuing chaos.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/8c0c414c-f5e1-40e8-8f2a-ef04945d15f2-jpeg.302309/

I think the cabana pic is from 2015. In the 2020 pic in the article below, it was removed.

At least 1 dead, almost 100 unaccounted for in building collapse in Surfside, Florida, officials say - CNN

The area definitely sank:

The pool itself appears unaffected (image from Washington Post, better resolution; another angle).

 

[Iona]

I cannot stop following this and it’s just completely horrifying. Those poor people. And I cannot even fathom being a searcher - everything is heavy and not easily moved. I just can’t imagine. It’s been keeping me up at night.

Indeed… I totally agree. I have not felt this sudden deep sadness and pure universal grief since September 11… I think it’s the added fact, that they were forced into unimaginable horror, in the middle of the night; In the comfort and privacy of their homes. During the most intimate and private hours of their life… Literally, snatched from their beds , taken from a normality that we can all identify and imagine …

 

[indicolite22]

(ugh, somehow my post got entwined, but hope you can figure it out.) THE STRUCTURAL FIELD SURVEY REPORT OCT 2018

• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Structural Field Survey Report (October 2018)

I read this report and my jaw dropped. I am unable to copy and paste the items the MC observed and recommendations. So I'll just recap from Pg 4 items D& E.
(lots of concrete issues reported over and over, spalling, incorrect sloping for drainage etc.) and on Pg 7 items J & K on pg 8:
"MC visual observations revealed that many of the previous garage concrete repairs are failing resulting in additional concrete cracking, spalling and leaching of calcium carbonate deposits."
In any case (I am not an engineer) many of the recommendations seem to require a lot of time, disruption and expense. If this was the first inspection in 40 years, then I might say, "What did you expect?" But the author of the report, changed my opinion, wrote a lot about concrete issues and "failed slabs."
Man-oh-man.... it is a dangerous place for the rescuers.

NYT article, based on the above report: Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex

Related Twitter post:
Breaking News: An engineer warned in 2018 of “major structural damage” at the Florida condo building that collapsed this week as many residents slept.
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1408721608026603527

My questions: How unique is this type of damage (compared to other buildings)? How serious is it in terms of urgency of repairs? Was the damage found in the part that gave way first?

Quote from the 2018 report (page 8, BBM): "However, the waterproofing below the Pool Deck & Entrance Drive as well as all of the planter waterproofing is beyond its useful life and therefore must be completely removed and replaced. The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas. Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially."

The above seems to be about the outside area and not the part that collapsed.
On the garage level, most of the concrete damage was again found under the pool, entrance drive and planter areas: "Unfortunately, all of these failed slab areas are under brick pavers, decorative stamped concrete and planters which require waterproofing replacement."

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think the attorney did have it backwards. Water will rust the steel rebars, and the rusting steel expands to displace the concrete.

The knee-deep water probably has a number of sources…. Heavy rain entering the garage, with no means to pump it out.. Broken potable water lines, even though water has been shut off.. Sprinkler lines, if present, would have been broken…. Water from firefighting efforts.. And, we don’t know, but there could be water saturated soil or voids under the garage. I’m an architect, and looking at this with great interest. I look forward to a thorough, impartial investigation. At this point, I fear for the safety of the first responders. Although I hope I’m wrong, I don’t think there’s anyone left alive in that pile.

IRRC, only 11 people or so were pulled from the 9/11 rubble and lived..... most of them being firefighters and LE who could communicate their location and were found in voids.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

VIDEO: A man whose relatives live in the collapsed Florida building says he's hardly seen rescue workers searching for survivors, as they stay at an apartment overlooking the scene

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1408574226240618499

I'm shocked that officials are even allowing folks to occupy the other half of the building that didn't collapse. The photo in the post right above this OP shows that the collapse turned a car on it's side at one of the pilings of the still standing condo right next to the pool. As to that video we have seen of firefighters standing in water drilling above.. perhaps is in that void in the photo next to the pool? It appears there was a lot of spalling and CaCarbonate in those joints??? in the photos?? Or perhaps that was the way intended.

[ETA: Someone corrected me below that the visual this person is showing is from the new oval building next door, not the remaining part. My bad that I didn't realize such]

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Champlain Towers Public Records Documents

List o documents (PDF files):

• 8777 COLLINS AVE-1979 PLANS
• 8777 COLLINS AVENUE - Preliminary Review Plans for 40 Year Re-certification
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Structural Field Survey Report (October 2018)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-PERMIT # 2021-211 (roof repairs)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Electrical and mechanical systems evaluation (October 2018)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - CODE COMPLIANCE CASES
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Unverified Inspection Report (August-September 2018)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-ROOF AND FACADE MAINTENANCE ANCHOR SYSTEM
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-PERMIT # 2021-462 (concrete repairs)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE - CODE COMPLIANCE LETTERS ISSUED
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-PERMIT # 2021-466 PERMITS (electrical work)
  
• 8777 COLLINS AVE-PERMIT # 2021-466 PLANS

Resolution No. 2021-2803 State of Emergency-Champlain Tower Collapse

(ugh, somehow my post got entwined, but hope you can figure it out.) THE STRUCTURAL FIELD SURVEY REPORT OCT 2018

• 8777 COLLINS AVE - Structural Field Survey Report (October 2018)

I read this report and my jaw dropped. I am unable to copy and paste the items the MC observed and recommendations. So I'll just recap from Pg 4 items D& E.
(lots of concrete issues reported over and over, spalling, incorrect sloping for drainage etc.) and on Pg 7 items J & K on pg 8:
"MC visual observations revealed that many of the previous garage concrete repairs are failing resulting in additional concrete cracking, spalling and leaching of calcium carbonate deposits."
In any case (I am not an engineer) many of the recommendations seem to require a lot of time, disruption and expense. If this was the first inspection in 40 years, then I might say, "What did you expect?" But the author of the report, changed my opinion, wrote a lot about concrete issues and "failed slabs."
Man-oh-man.... it is a dangerous place for the rescuers.

I'm going to peruse these documents. Of interest is our HOA pool has been leaking for years, and nothing has been done about it.

NYT article, based on the above report: Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex

Related Twitter post:
Breaking News: An engineer warned in 2018 of “major structural damage” at the Florida condo building that collapsed this week as many residents slept.
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1408721608026603527

My questions: How unique is this type of damage (compared to other buildings)? How serious is it in terms of urgency of repairs? Was the damage found in the part that gave way first?

Quote from the 2018 report (page 8, BBM): "However, the waterproofing below the Pool Deck & Entrance Drive as well as all of the planter waterproofing is beyond its useful life and therefore must be completely removed and replaced. The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas. Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially."

The above seems to be about the outside area and not the part that collapsed.
On the garage level, most of the concrete damage was again found under the pool, entrance drive and planter areas: "Unfortunately, all of these failed slab areas are under brick pavers, decorative stamped concrete and planters which require waterproofing replacement."

Not sure I agree with this. To me, it indeed appears from photos that this exact area by the pool is sunken in and broken off. MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I'm shocked that officials are even allowing folks to occupy the other half of the building that didn't collapse. The photo in the post right above this OP shows that the collapse turned a car on it's side at one of the pilings of the still standing condo right next to the pool. As to that video we have seen of firefighters standing in water drilling above.. perhaps is in that void in the photo next to the pool?

The relatives/friends were in the neighboring new (oval) building to the south. Nobody is allowed to stay in the remaining part of the building that collapsed.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think the cabana pic is from 2015. In the 2020 pic in the article below, it was removed.

At least 1 dead, almost 100 unaccounted for in building collapse in Surfside, Florida, officials say - CNN

The area definitely sank:

The pool itself appears unaffected (image from Washington Post, better resolution; another angle).

Thanks for that second photo. It appears that in that photo after the collapse, the pool was 100% full of water to me.

 

[SouthAussie]

NYT article, based on the above report: Engineer Warned of ‘Major Structural Damage’ at Florida Condo Complex

Related Twitter post:
Breaking News: An engineer warned in 2018 of “major structural damage” at the Florida condo building that collapsed this week as many residents slept.
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1408721608026603527

My questions: How unique is this type of damage (compared to other buildings)? How serious is it in terms of urgency of repairs? Was the damage found in the part that gave way first?

Quote from the 2018 report (page 8, BBM): "However, the waterproofing below the Pool Deck & Entrance Drive as well as all of the planter waterproofing is beyond its useful life and therefore must be completely removed and replaced. The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas. Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially."

The above seems to be about the outside area and not the part that collapsed.
On the garage level, most of the concrete damage was again found under the pool, entrance drive and planter areas: "Unfortunately, all of these failed slab areas are under brick pavers, decorative stamped concrete and planters which require waterproofing replacement."

While the failed slab areas may be under the pool deck and the planter box areas, perhaps the foundation is mostly one large slab. So the deterioration under the pool deck could cause that area to sink and sort of 'pull' the rest of it down with it.

I just cant help but remember the missing woman saying that the pool was caving in ... perhaps meaning that the pool area was caving in (the pool deck).

 

[sds71]

Early Thursday morning, Mike Stratton awoke to the sound of his cellphone ringing. It was his wife, Cassie Stratton, on the other end, speaking frantically about their condo building shaking. She told him she saw a sinkhole where the pool out her window used to be. Then the line went dead.

“It was 1:30 a.m., I’ll never, never forget that,” he said.

Cassie Stratton among missing at Surfside condo | Miami Herald

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks for that second photo. It appears that in that photo after the collapse, the pool was 100% full of water to me.

Something happened somewhere along the line to empty the pool. Because it didn't remain full. It is clear that there is no water in it, in this picture.
Perhaps it leaked out after the collapse, perhaps firecrews used the water to put out fires, perhaps they emptied it to release some strain on the remaining structure.



No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

 

[indicolite22]

While the failed slab areas may be under the pool deck and the planter box areas, perhaps the foundation is mostly one large slab. So the deterioration under the pool deck could cause that area to sink and sort of 'pull' the rest of it down with it.

I just cant help but remember the missing woman saying that the pool was caving in ... perhaps meaning that the pool area was caving in (the pool deck).

I posted a pic of the pool earlier - it did not cave in, but the area next to it did.

 

[indicolite22]

Something happened somewhere along the line to empty the pool. Because it didn't remain full. It is clear that there is no water in it, in this picture.
Perhaps it leaked out after the collapse, perhaps firecrews used the water to put out fires, perhaps they emptied it to release some strain on the remaining structure.

View attachment 302346

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

There's a picture of the pool being emptied.

 

[SouthAussie]

I posted a pic of the pool earlier - it did not cave in, but the area next to it id.

Yes. So what pool is this missing woman speaking of? Being a resident, one would think that she knows where the pool is. Is there more than one pool?

Early Thursday morning, Mike Stratton awoke to the sound of his cellphone ringing. It was his wife, Cassie Stratton, on the other end, speaking frantically about their condo building shaking. She told him she saw a sinkhole where the pool out her window used to be. Then the line went dead.

“It was 1:30 a.m., I’ll never, never forget that,” he said.

Cassie Stratton among missing at Surfside condo | Miami Herald

 

[SouthAussie]

In this pic, there are two pools side by side.



Champlain Towers East Condos in Surfside | Sales & Rentals

 

[indicolite22]

Not sure I agree with this. To me, it indeed appears from photos that this exact area by the pool is sunken in and broken off. MOO

Yes, but not the pool itself. I remembered that the report said "pool deck", so maybe there was nothing under the pool, just under the deck.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The relatives/friends were in the neighboring new (oval) building to the south. Nobody is allowed to stay in the remaining part of the building that collapsed.

Thank you so much for that clarification. I should have recognized such. I'll do an ETA on my post.

 

[indicolite22]

Yes. So what pool is this missing woman speaking of? Being a resident, one would think that she knows where the pool is. Is there more than one pool?

It was also 2AM. Is the pool illuminated at night?

In this pic, there are two pools side by side.

View attachment 302348

Champlain Towers East Condos in Surfside | Sales & Rentals

That is a different (newer) building. The one that collapsed is Champlain Towers South.

 

[SouthAussie]

It was also 2AM. Is the pool illuminated at night?

Usually there is lighting in and around pools at night, for ambience and for safety.

I find this pool matter pretty confusing. Maybe it will all become more clear later on. Maybe the 'sinkhole' was the pool deck caving in and either she (or her husband) didnt explain/hear right amid the panic and fright.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Early Thursday morning, Mike Stratton awoke to the sound of his cellphone ringing. It was his wife, Cassie Stratton, on the other end, speaking frantically about their condo building shaking. She told him she saw a sinkhole where the pool out her window used to be. Then the line went dead.

“It was 1:30 a.m., I’ll never, never forget that,” he said.

Cassie Stratton among missing at Surfside condo | Miami Herald

Going back to that tragic surveillance photo, I recall seeing lights come on right before the second one went down. That someone looked out and mentioned the sinkhole, but not the building down... perhaps what they could see from their balcony. I'm sure this will be very good investigative information once proven that call took place to know the timeline of events. (I have goosebumps writing this now... time to take a break from this thread... so so so so tragic the stories)