FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[SuziQ]

Snipped
He told his family that amid the heartbreak, he noticed he was stepping on an envelope and he picked it up.

“On the outside, it was addressed to Hilda and the card had butterflies on it and it was a birthday card signed by her prayer group,” said Sally Noriega, Hilda Noriega’s daughter-in-law.

North Bay Village police chief finds signs of hope after mother is victim of building collapse

 

[GatorFL]

Exactly. Nothing in the topography to slow it down as it clipped the southern tip / edge of FL and kept right on going. Got over those warm GOM waters and roared across.

I worked for a company in Hollywood at the time. I actually drove home from work as the outer bands started impacting the area. Hurricane Katrina caused about a $3 million dollar loss for that company. Our roof was destroyed and employees were out of work for over a week. Insurance made everybody whole, thankfully. Nobody remembers Katrina's impact on Florida but it was substantial.

 

[Herat]

William Espinosa said he was stunned when he saw the images of the condominium collapse in Surfside.
“I was there from 1995 to about 2000,” Espinosa explained.
He said he oversaw the maintenance staff, including four housekeepers and three maintenance workers.

“Basic repairs,” he noted.

And yet one memory stuck with him, the amount of seawater that would make its way into the underground garage.

“Any time that we had high tides away from the ordinary, any King Tide or anything like that, we would have a lot of saltwater come in through the bottom of the of the foundation,” he claimed, adding they had to use two large pumps to try and remove the rising water. “But it was so much water, all the time, that the pumps never could keep up with it.”

Condo Collapse: Former Maintenance Manager William Espinosa Was Concerned About Saltwater Intrusion

This has to be a very significant comment

There are very few things that are more corrosive to metal and concrete than sea water. He described 1-2 feet of sea water in the parking garage, maybe the entire parking garage some time. That is salt water seeping up under the foundation into the piers and piles holding up the building.

I have no idea how one could even fix that in the concrete floor of the garage or the concrete piers supporting the building.

And I truly believe other similar facilities that close to sea water are at the same risk.

I wonder how long the architects expected the building to last?

 

[Dontknow?]

Press conference about to start.

 

[Dontknow?]

Death toll at 9 per presser.

 

[sds71]

Miami Beach, a city perched on a crepe-thin spit of sand and muck, has recently needed only a nudge – a heavy downpour or an unusually high tide – to see basements and low-lying streets submerged. More water is coming: six to 10 inches of rise by 2030, and perhaps more than two feet by the time today’s high-school seniors turn 60.
That leaves residents with a stark choice: to flee home, to pay for new seawalls and elevated roads and pumps that suck the water away, or to live on the hope that a better solution will emerge. It’s a dilemma that will replay itself across the U.S. as the climate changes, as people decide whether to stay or to go when hurricanes, wildfires, floods, and heat endanger their communities.

Life in a sea-level rise hotspot » Yale Climate Connections
DECEMBER 14, 2017

 

[Herat]

Miami Beach, a city perched on a crepe-thin spit of sand and muck, has recently needed only a nudge – a heavy downpour or an unusually high tide – to see basements and low-lying streets submerged. More water is coming: six to 10 inches of rise by 2030, and perhaps more than two feet by the time today’s high-school seniors turn 60.
That leaves residents with a stark choice: to flee home, to pay for new seawalls and elevated roads and pumps that suck the water away, or to live on the hope that a better solution will emerge. It’s a dilemma that will replay itself across the U.S. as the climate changes, as people decide whether to stay or to go when hurricanes, wildfires, floods, and heat endanger their communities.

Life in a sea-level rise hotspot » Yale Climate Connections
DECEMBER 14, 2017

When do they stop building huge heavy buildings on land that will clearly be increasingly damaged by sea water intrusions?

Who is going to determine which buildings built on this "crepe-thin spit of land" (excellent description) are allowed to stay and which will have to be closed and removed? Who is going to pay the $$$ billion- losses from lawsuits and damages from people who are forced to leave their domiciles without compensation or building owners who will have their properties abandoned and razed.

Miami Beach has a huge problem suddenly right in it's face.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Before building collapse in Surfside, $9 million in repairs needed | WFLA

The cost estimate showed that repairs across the entire building would cost more than $9.1 million, with the cost of work at the garage, entrance and pool deck alone accounting for more than $3.8 million. The work had not been done by the time the building collapsed.

Abi Aghayere, a Drexel University engineering researcher, said the extent of the damage shown in the engineering report was notable. In addition to possible problems under the pool, he said several areas above the entrance drive showing signs of deterioration were worrisome and should have been repaired immediately.

“This is a wake-up call for folks on the beach,” Schlesinger (an attorney specializing in construction defects and a former construction project engineer) said. “The scary portion is the other buildings. You think this is unique? No.”

Yikes! That is $70,000 per unit. I used to be the president of the HOA board when I lived in a condo 20 years ago. The residents in my complex in Los Angeles completely freaked out when we told them all they would have to pay $6000 for a new roof. I can’t imagine the board telling residents they all have to pay $70,000, let alone trying to collect it!! This helps me understand why these repairs were delayed.

 

[cady]

The husband of a woman who called him to tell him she just saw the pool deck collapse, if accurate, means that the pool deck collapse was the initial visible event that started the chain reaction, it seems to me. Seconds after she told him that, he heard her scream and the phone went dead. I don't recall which floor he said she was on. JMO Fourth floor.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Miami Beach, a city perched on a crepe-thin spit of sand and muck, has recently needed only a nudge – a heavy downpour or an unusually high tide – to see basements and low-lying streets submerged. More water is coming: six to 10 inches of rise by 2030, and perhaps more than two feet by the time today’s high-school seniors turn 60.
That leaves residents with a stark choice: to flee home, to pay for new seawalls and elevated roads and pumps that suck the water away, or to live on the hope that a better solution will emerge. It’s a dilemma that will replay itself across the U.S. as the climate changes, as people decide whether to stay or to go when hurricanes, wildfires, floods, and heat endanger their communities.

Life in a sea-level rise hotspot » Yale Climate Connections
DECEMBER 14, 2017

Seawalls won’t work in Florida. This article is a fascinating read: The Miami Building Collapse Is a Warning

excerpt:
"Since Miami is built on limestone, which soaks up water like a sponge, walls are not very useful. In Miami, sea water will just go under a wall, like a salty ghost. It will come up through the pipes and seep up around the manholes. It will soak into the sand and find its way into caves and get under the water table and push the ground water up."

 

[Herat]

Yikes! That is $70,000 per unit. I used to be the president of the HOA board when I lived in a condo 20 years ago. The residents in my complex in Los Angeles completely freaked out when we told them all they would have to pay $6000 for a new roof. I can’t imagine the board telling residents they all have to pay $70,000, let alone trying to collect it!! This helps me understand why these repairs were delayed.

ABSOLUTELY!

The carrying cost of living in an old condo is tremendous and very much not planned.

This is only the tip of the iceberg.

It would not be unusual to discover more severe, and critial problems that could easily double or triple that estimate.

I think it's just a losing situation all around.

If my parents were living in Champlain Towers North, I'd be making plans to move them out to a safer place and prepare to take a huge loss on the condo, if it could even be sold. Perhaps the building would be condemned. I'd want to be ahead of the game.

Losing a sea view is worth not losing your life.

 

[Warwick1991]

William Espinosa said he was stunned when he saw the images of the condominium collapse in Surfside.
“I was there from 1995 to about 2000,” Espinosa explained.
He said he oversaw the maintenance staff, including four housekeepers and three maintenance workers.

“Basic repairs,” he noted.

And yet one memory stuck with him, the amount of seawater that would make its way into the underground garage.

“Any time that we had high tides away from the ordinary, any King Tide or anything like that, we would have a lot of saltwater come in through the bottom of the of the foundation,” he claimed, adding they had to use two large pumps to try and remove the rising water. “But it was so much water, all the time, that the pumps never could keep up with it.”

Condo Collapse: Former Maintenance Manager William Espinosa Was Concerned About Saltwater Intrusion

This account is very revealing.... It suggests inadequate foundation and garage/basement wall waterproofing at the very least. Regular inundation of the bottom of the garage floor slab, and the connections from the piers/piles below to the columns above.

 

[Baciagalupo]

I hope this is not considered insensitive in light of all the lives lost - all the other condo owners of the still standing part òf the building had to evacuate I guess and all the worth of their condos is lost while having to pay for new accommodation. Will insurance pay for their condos?

 

[Skigh]

Nine confirmed dead in Miami building collapse as more than 150 still missing

 

[dotr]

'I HAD GOOSE BUMPS': Florida building resident stayed at girlfriend's on night of disaster | Toronto Sun
''SUNRISE — Champlain Towers South resident Erick de Moura was supposed to be home when the building collapsed, but his girlfriend persuaded him to spend the night at her place less than two miles away, a circumstance that likely saved his life.

“Only by God. To me this is a miracle,” the 40-year-old Brazil native told Reuters in an interview near the site as rain began to fell on Saturday afternoon.''

“I said, ‘I’m going to go home because I’m going to the gym tomorrow morning and I have nothing to wear here,'” he said. “I was saying goodbye and she said ‘Why don’t you stay?'”

She persuaded him not to return to Champlain Towers, telling him she would dry his shorts and ordering him to take a shower.''
''De Moura woke hours later to a missed call and a text from a woman who works at the Towers, asking if he was alright.''

''De Moura, who sells medical equipment, said he has thanked his girlfriend and, in a brief light-hearted moment, said he now has to buy her an engagement ring.''

 

[SuziQ]

Thanks for all of the informative posts and expertise added.

I wonder if what happened to this building is just a precursor to what others face. Sounds like it has been a losing battle to stay ahead of conditions that were ignored or not known about 40-50 years ago when buildings went up there. Is that why so many are torn down and rebuilt? Sounds like a ticking time bomb.

 

[scdiv]

From this article:

Florida survivor recalls escape from collapsing condo

Monteagudo, who is in her 50s, woke up from a restless sleep and heard strange noises. She initially believed they came from the open sliding door to the oceanfront balcony.

“I ran and tried to close it but I couldn’t, I imagine because it was unlevel already because of all the movement,” she recounted. “I heard a crack and when I looked, I saw a crack traveling in the wall two fingers thick. Something told me, you need to run.”

--

Monteagudo said she purchased apartment 611 in December, and was upset that she learned about structural issues after the sale. She paid $600,000 for the two bedroom, two bath condo with an ocean view, according to Zillow.

“They never told us anything” Monteagudo said. “Then they suddenly make us make an extra $1,000 special assessment for all these repairs they need to do. We are supposed to start paying in July.”

“What happened?”

 

[IQuestion]

Yikes! That is $70,000 per unit. I used to be the president of the HOA board when I lived in a condo 20 years ago. The residents in my complex in Los Angeles completely freaked out when we told them all they would have to pay $6000 for a new roof. I can’t imagine the board telling residents they all have to pay $70,000, let alone trying to collect it!! This helps me understand why these repairs were delayed.

Hi JAIMEINLA You bring up some very important issues. (And glad you are an EX-president of an HOA.....gotta be one tough anxiety producing responsibility.) Even with the reserves (20% allowable to be set aside for major repairs) it seems as if no one took "addressable responsibility" for the long existing water issue in the underground parking or changed the "slope" for the drainage of the pool area. (MC report noted the slope was wrong and even noted it was not the intended design of the original architect/designers. ) I recently saw same problem, but "much smaller issue"....subs poured concrete sloping in the opposite direction of the original plans. It was never an issue....because it was mere inches....until unusually heavy rains came. And, now the problem fell on the new owners to an amount close to $100,000. Thankfully experts will be pouring over all the plans and matching up intended design vs completed work. As in the Hyatt Skywalk collapse in Kansas City..... the design of one long support rods for the walkways was changed to 2 shorter rods. Apparently the shorter rods didn't spread the weight load the same way and
resulted in an unintended disaster. (I read & watch "why" disasters occurred... with the thought of avoiding them. Who reads disaster reports/findings late at night?)

 

[SuziQ]

This has to be a very significant comment

There are very few things that are more corrosive to metal and concrete than sea water. He described 1-2 feet of sea water in the parking garage, maybe the entire parking garage some time. That is salt water seeping up under the foundation into the piers and piles holding up the building.

I have no idea how one could even fix that in the concrete floor of the garage or the concrete piers supporting the building.

And I truly believe other similar facilities that close to sea water are at the same risk.

I wonder how long the architects expected the building to last?

My husband is a retired engineer for our airport. He has not offered much of an opinion until he read this article. He said "well that would do it". He was appalled at the extent of the spalling. He said you can't just patch that up. But that's what most people want to do in their buildings. And some go ahead, against warnings and do exactly that. He suspects cosmetic work was done instead of reconstruction.

 

[nerosleuth]

I believe that in the coming weeks and months, there will be numerous investigations and many tough questions will be asked in determining the root causes of the catastrophic condo building collapse.

Not only will investigators be looking into the current location of the condo, it will be looking into all aspects of how the condo was designed, constructed, and maintained. There is the possibility that professional malfeasance may also be involved.

I forsee years of litigation in the courts over this condo building collapse.

I believe that years from now after the root causes of this catastrophic condo building collapse have been determined, there will be more stringent standards concerning the development and construction of high rise buildings in coastal areas.