FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[GatorFL]

Interesting as the bylaws for my HOA/POA (not condo) specifically state we CANNOT take out loans. Again, it should be a build up in reserves vs. a one time hit to the person who just happens to own it at the time, or later when loan is taken out.

One thing that happened here in my neighborhood is the developer created a special tax district. Our neighborhood needed infrastructure: roads, sewers, etc. They did a bond issue and we pay an additional property tax for 20 years. I'm almost at the end of that now.

 

[IQuestion]

I don't think this is what the lawsuit is getting at, unless I am missing something. I don't think they are pointing fingers at the neighboring condo, but rather saying that the shaking should not have been happening and should have been addressed. Am I missing something?

Hi Sunflowerchick, au contraire maybe I am missing something. I live in California and shaking is a daily event from minor earthquakes and other days from earth compaction machines used by developers. So the thought of suing for something I experience daily seems fruitless. In my opinion.

 

[GatorFL]

I don't think this is what the lawsuit is getting at, unless I am missing something. I don't think they are pointing fingers at the neighboring condo, but rather saying that the shaking should not have been happening and should have been addressed. Am I missing something?

I think they are lining up whatever lawsuits they can. To that point, a story on the local news today said the US Navy issued a statement about the recent explosive shock test on the USS Gerald R Ford and that it had nothing to do with the building collapse: VIDEO: Explosive USS Gerald R. Ford Shock Trial Registered as 3.9 Magnitude Earthquake - USNI News

 

[Chelly]

Oh geez...It just gets worse by the day! Pointing fingers at the condo complex next door ??? That building was actually addressing & completing repair work. Don't the surviving residents of CTS realize the repairs they had pending could/would have caused as much noise, shaking, disruption and required off site parking to everyone else in the area?? Unless they can assure us they had lined up silent jack hammers, I think this is the kettle-calling-the-pot-black. The condo complex next door is not responsible for the concrete deterioration that was noted 3 years earlier. Nor is the neighboring building responsible for the incorrect slope of the pool, the planters that had exhausted their useful life or the soggy roof. SMH
Might as well say it now....I think CST insurance carrier is going to fight any claims, citing failure to maintain the property nullified their
contract. I think we are going to need a bigger courtroom.

Agree. A huge mess for years to come.

 

[Chelly]

Okay, I think I've finally got the majority of the links posted here onto the media thread.

FL - Champlain Towers South Building Collapse, Miami, 24 June 2021 Media Thread **NO DISCUSSION**
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-june-2021-media-thread-no-discussion.575156/

@cujenn81 Thank you for managing that detailed undertaking for us.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Oh geez...It just gets worse by the day! Pointing fingers at the condo complex next door ??? That building was actually addressing & completing repair work. Don't the surviving residents of CTS realize the repairs they had pending could/would have caused as much noise, shaking, disruption and required off site parking to everyone else in the area?? Unless they can assure us they had lined up silent jack hammers, I think this is the kettle-calling-the-pot-black. The condo complex next door is not responsible for the concrete deterioration that was noted 3 years earlier. Nor is the neighboring building responsible for the incorrect slope of the pool, the planters that had exhausted their useful life or the soggy roof. SMH
Might as well say it now....I think CST insurance carrier is going to fight any claims, citing failure to maintain the property nullified their
contract. I think we are going to need a bigger courtroom.

IIRC, for class action lawsuits.... the first lawyer to file has priority for the rest? IIRC, lawyers in Florida are not allowed to approach folks for their services for 3 days in Florida. (NOTE: this is 20 year old memory from personal stuff recollection)

So.............. we had the first class action/priority from one condo person. A discussion for later perhaps on these threads.

 

[IQuestion]

Isn't the oval condo complex next door a new-build? There was a 10-storey hotel on the site which was demolished in 2015.

It may well be a new build, but it was still undergoing work. If someone can post the picture from post #602.... you can see it. I cut & cropped from google maps...the picture is recent.

 

[Chelly]

You would be surprised. A lot of buyers want to buy something that needs work. They buy, then renovate. Of course this would have been a bit of a different animal since the building needed a rehab. If I was a buyer I would be looking for a good deal in a situation like this.

The effects of this are going to be interesting on the condo market for sure. Normally I would say condos would take a hit but in this kind of market I am not convinced that would be the case.

We'll only know by following the RE market for a year or so, right?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

You would be surprised. A lot of buyers want to buy something that needs work. They buy, then renovate. Of course this would have been a bit of a different animal since the building needed a rehab. If I was a buyer I would be looking for a good deal in a situation like this.

The effects of this are going to be interesting on the condo market for sure. Normally I would say condos would take a hit but in this kind of market I am not convinced that would be the case.

I'm wondering such too. As was said in one presser, they will get to the bottom and change laws/legislation *cough cough cough*.

It appears that the condo assn stated just April 9th the fees in the millions that were going to be assessed.

Which members of the condo assn saw/knew of what was coming before the April 9th letter.. and knew what was coming in the 3 years before to sell?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Agree. A huge mess for years to come.

Absolutely. That is why I'm so appreciative of the creation of a media only thread that folks are contributing to.

MOO

 

[Antimony]

How do you repair a Cast-in-place reinforced concrete column that stretched about 120' up thru the building and is load supporting?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

We'll only know by following the RE market for a year or so, right?

And at this very moment (unless all gone now) we'll be able to document which condos went up for sale in the last few months etc.

Soon, if not already, those will go poof and we at WS will not be able to document.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

How do you repair a Cast-in-place reinforced concrete column that stretched about 120' up thru the building and is load supporting?

At this time, you can search for posting information on such, but I don't think we can share such posts on WS threads as they are not MSM for such complex information and background.

It can be googled for such MOO

 

[Dontknow?]

Firefighters leave food, water for cat left behind on fourth floor of collapsed Surfside condo

City of Miami firefighters on Monday, using a cherry-picker truck, left food and water on the balcony of a still unstable fourth-floor apartment at Champlain Towers for a cat named Coco left behind after the condo collapsed last week.

But there apparently is at least one cat, a black and white tuxedo named Coco — owned by an 89-year-old woman and her daughter who were pulled to safety from a corner fourth-floor apartment by firefighters after the early morning collapse. After hearing about the cat, Miami Commission Chair Ken Russell helped initiate the move to feed Coco and look for other lost pets.

Firefighters leave food, water for cat left behind on fourth floor of collapsed Surfside condo

 

[anneg]

Thought this was interesting. Sorry if previously posted. BBM.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252394393.html

Surfside official was sent disturbing report. He told board condo was ‘in good shape’

Rosalia Cordaro said she complained to condo officials about the “big, big, big crack” in the garage wall and the constant pool of water that appeared in the space where she parked her car in the underground garage at Champlain Towers South for more than two years.
....
The Cordaros bought their condo in 2019 for $525,000....she and the neighbors she became friends with would talk about “little things that bothered us.”

Her front door never closed properly. There was always water leaking into the garage. And when she and her friend, Linda March, sat by the pool, they noticed cracks in the foundation.

When they asked the building manager about it, “They would always say: ‘Don’t worry about it. We’re going to fix that’,’’ Cordaro said. “And when I would complain about the [garage] cracks, nobody listened to me.”
....

When 40-year reviews take place, the cost to residents can be steep. Unit owners at Champlain Towers South were expected to be assessed based on the square footage of their property.

The Cordaros said they received a bill for $95,000 to pay for the building repairs and renovation. They said they sent the check just two weeks ago.

Cordaro said she was told the work had to do with the balcony and does not recall any discussion of foundation issues or plans to repair the issues with the garage.

 

[Antimony]

How do you repair a Cast-in-place reinforced concrete column that stretched about 120' up thru the building and is load supporting?

OK, I looked it up and got very limited info.
What I got was:
If the damage is structural in nature (load bearing) then the rebar must be replaced (meaning the entire column) and re-concreted.
Another way of fixing it is to build another column around the first one that matches or exceeds the original strength.
Nothing was mentioned about the Piles that are buried directly under the columns to a depth of 50' or so (I think).
I suppose it is possible that the piles are damaged as well. Not possible to tell without opening up the garage floor.
Replacement of just a few columns might cost more than the building was worth, pre-collapse.
That building might have been a total loss even before it collapsed.

 

[CrimeAway]

Firefighters leave food, water for cat left behind on fourth floor of collapsed Surfside condo

City of Miami firefighters on Monday, using a cherry-picker truck, left food and water on the balcony of a still unstable fourth-floor apartment at Champlain Towers for a cat named Coco left behind after the condo collapsed last week.

But there apparently is at least one cat, a black and white tuxedo named Coco — owned by an 89-year-old woman and her daughter who were pulled to safety from a corner fourth-floor apartment by firefighters after the early morning collapse. After hearing about the cat, Miami Commission Chair Ken Russell helped initiate the move to feed Coco and look for other lost pets.

Firefighters leave food, water for cat left behind on fourth floor of collapsed Surfside condo

I just watched this morning's press conference, and I thought that the fire chief was somewhat dismissive of the issue of pets who may still be at the site. I realize that the fate of pets pales in comparison to the human loss of life, but recovering pets (presumably from the building still standing), could provide some solace to people who have lost so much. I am glad to hear that some people are trying to help.

The chief answers a question about pets here, at about 1:11:59

Does anyone else find it in somewhat poor taste when press conferences appear to be opportunities for officials to boast of their own performance? I personally find it unnecessary, and insensitive, JMO.

 

[IQuestion]

Thought this was interesting. Sorry if previously posted. BBM.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252394393.html

Surfside official was sent disturbing report. He told board condo was ‘in good shape’

Rosalia Cordaro said she complained to condo officials about the “big, big, big crack” in the garage wall and the constant pool of water that appeared in the space where she parked her car in the underground garage at Champlain Towers South for more than two years.
....
The Cordaros bought their condo in 2019 for $525,000....she and the neighbors she became friends with would talk about “little things that bothered us.”

Her front door never closed properly. There was always water leaking into the garage. And when she and her friend, Linda March, sat by the pool, they noticed cracks in the foundation.

When they asked the building manager about it, “They would always say: ‘Don’t worry about it. We’re going to fix that’,’’ Cordaro said. “And when I would complain about the [garage] cracks, nobody listened to me.”
....

When 40-year reviews take place, the cost to residents can be steep. Unit owners at Champlain Towers South were expected to be assessed based on the square footage of their property.

The Cordaros said they received a bill for $95,000 to pay for the building repairs and renovation. They said they sent the check just two weeks ago.

Cordaro said she was told the work had to do with the balcony and does not recall any discussion of foundation issues or plans to repair the issues with the garage.

She should ask for her $95,000 check back.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Condo board president warned of deterioration, need for repairs months before collapse (nbcnews.com)

"The concrete deterioration is accelerating," the Champlain Towers South Board president wrote in April to residents. "New problems have been identified."

A letter sent in April to residents of the Miami Beach-area condo that collapsed last week said the building's "concrete deterioration is accelerating" and warned that damage "would begin to multiply exponentially."

The letter, sent by Champlain Towers South Board President Jean Wodnicki, explained to residents why a renovation that had originally been estimated to cost about $9 million had jumped to $16 million in about three years.

Engineering consultant Frank Morabito had been hired in 2018 to get a start on a 40-year recertification process, as is required under the Miami-Dade County building code. His report indicated that there was “abundant cracking” and crumbling in the underground parking garage of the 12-story building...

 

[dixiegirl1035]

As a layperson after seeing some videos and some folks that are forensic folks from the approved videos upthread. ( FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021 ) .. don't put planters with soil right next to the support columns. They can either contribute to, or COVER UP issues and should be freestanding.

Again I go back to one of the first videos that we saw here as to search and rescue. We now know (MOO 100%) that they were filming under the pool deck, with LOTS of carbonate and sparring showing.

MOO that was when they were draining the pool... to release pressure? As the next day, the overheads were showing the pool no longer had any water in it.

How much salt water was from ocean, how much "salt water" was from the salt pool which is so popular these days?