FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021

[Hope32]

Thanks for posting the list of owners... If only that had the actual unit numbers and a diagram that had the unit numbers in the building listed on the nytimes article

 

[sds71]

@GeoffRBennett
·
Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett tells me officials are considering demolishing the remaining condo tower. “If the existing building is a problem, then we need to eliminate that problem quickly.” Rescue operations stopped this morning over concerns the remaining tower could fall.

 

[zecats]

Another great Florida article. Thanks.

This article provides a HUGE answer to what is likely going to happen up and down the coastlines.....

If the board refuses to act, you can file a lawsuit to ask a judge to order them to fix the building. If they still refuse, the JUDGE CAN REMOVE THE BOARD AND APPOINT A RECEIVER TO MAKE REPAIRS.

I am an owner of a condo unit at the Jersey Shore. Granted, it's only 3 stories and only 30 units, but it is a concrete build and is a block from the beach/ocean. Our association does carry a decent reserve and 2 years ago the buildings needed new roofs and consequently it was discovered the soffit under the roof needed replacing as well. One thing led to the next...

I doubt any of us would have disagreed with the repairs, but my point here is we had no choice. Reserves were used as possible, but we were all charged an assessment, payable over 2 years every 6 months in $500 (4) increments. Total of $2000. We are not even able to debate this, except perhaps on getting bids for the work. And this happened another year for water pipe replacement. It's just part of the ownership of a place near the ocean.

 

[GatorFL]

@GeoffRBennett
·
Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett tells me officials are considering demolishing the remaining condo tower. “If the existing building is a problem, then we need to eliminate that problem quickly.” Rescue operations stopped this morning over concerns the remaining tower could fall.

Based on the latest revelations about cracks, I would think the remaining structure needs to come down.

 

[Chelly]

I am an owner of a condo unit at the Jersey Shore. Granted, it's only 3 stories and only 30 units, but it is a concrete build and is a block from the beach/ocean. Our association does carry a decent reserve and 2 years ago the buildings needed new roofs and consequently it was discovered the soffit under the roof needed replacing as well. One thing led to the next...

I doubt any of us would have disagreed with the repairs, but my point here is we had no choice. Reserves were used as possible, but we were all charged an assessment, payable over 2 years every 6 months in $500 (4) increments. Total of $2000. We are not even able to debate this, except perhaps on getting bids for the work. And this happened another year for water pipe replacement. It's just part of the ownership of a place near the ocean.

When people collectively own something, they collectively make decisions about it. I would find that system difficult to live with.

 

[zecats]

When people collectively own something, they collectively make decisions about it. I would fine that system difficult to live with.

I hear you. There are some things that irk me - what kind of blinds have to be in the window, what the pool hours are, how rentals can be handled (if you choose to rent your unit), whether pets are allowed...

But collectively in this case, we all pretty much get along and agree to maintain the building and the property in our best interests. It's a seasonal place, close to the ocean and a great beach, cooler in the hot summer, affordable and truly and especially now in this real estate market, is a much desired and sought after asset.

 

[IQuestion]

GatorFL Yes of course, you are correct. I am wondering if these layers of ownership was or could have been an issue in identifying who might have been staying in the units. I haven't heard about how people entered the building...was there a check-in/sign-in process? I know we have some posters who live in similar high rises....could you tell us about the process?

 

[Antimony]

Can you envision a building inspector shaking down a building owner?
A list of problems, Real and contrived, with estimated cost to the building owner(s).
The inspector could make most of them go away for some "consideration".
It would take more than a "Hundred Dollar Handshake" to do it.
Look at the financials for the building inspectors.
Do you think anyone who would shake down a business owner would remember to pay taxes on the payoff.
It is dangerous in the building safety business, It is not dangerous in home safety, bar and restaurant inspections.
New York City has had a crane inspection department for decades. They still have corruption problems.
In some cities, the building inspectors are political hacks who return favors to favored persons and punish others.
It would be east to get in, make a ton of money and get out before things started collapsing.

 

[IQuestion]

President Biden speaking (if you are not able to watch right now I'll type bullet points)..."will pay for 100% cost of search and rescue cost for the first 30days..." "..Expediting visas for foreign family members" ..."thanking the first responders and offering health services"... "families going through hell"
very unifying speech IMO.

 

[CrimeAway]

President Biden speaking (if you are not able to watch right now I'll type bullet points)..."will pay for 100% cost of search and rescue cost for the first 30days..." "..Expediting visas for foreign family members" ..."thanking the first responders and offering health services"... "families going through hell"
very unifying speech IMO.

It looks like he started speaking at around 4:30 pm (EST):

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[al66pine]

Can you envision a building inspector shaking down a building owner?
A list of problems, Real and contrived, with estimated cost to the building owner(s).
The inspector could make most of them go away for some "consideration".
It would take more than a "Hundred Dollar Handshake" to do it.
Look at the financials for the building inspectors.

Warning. Warning. Short Post Alert
@Antimony sbm bbm
re bbm. Yes.

 

[IQuestion]

Am still watching CNN, per reporter (Nick?) said a family who has filed a lawsuit is including claim against MC. (I think the suit is claiming they did not certify the building was not safe to occupy or should have notified it was unsafe.... guess we will have to view the exact filing.) MC does not comment on ongoing litigation.
Okay, question to any privately hired engineers:? Are you required to report unsafe conditions to the city/municipality? What rules govern this type of scenario? Is there a mandated report process?
Edited to clarify and add....I bet there will be mandated reporting on everything, even if not structural, from a nonworking/missing smoke detector to a ceiling fan install.

 

[CrimeAway]

A brief news report about a narrowly avoided disaster in Sarasota, and possible links to Surfside

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[rainynights]

Philippe Naïm was in his Paris apartment when he got a call early June 24 from his wife who was at the couple's beachside condo.

It was the middle of the night in Surfside, Florida, but Margarita Champin had heard a noise that had shaken her – like an explosion.

[...]

He stayed on the line as his wife went to check the outside hallway. The power was out, but from what she could see – dust, debris, drywall – she understood this was more than a fire. Naïm and Champin agreed to call every five minutes. He told her to check that her phone was fully charged, knowing this was the only lifeline they had.

[...]

Naïm scoured the Internet for information, but there was no news yet. He enlisted the help of his young nephew in Miami, who found a video feed of the Champlain South Tower taken from a hotel across the street.

He now understood what was happening: Huge sections of the condo had collapsed, unthinkably pancaking to the ground.

In the pitch black, Champin found her way to a neighbors' apartment with whom she waited with for evacuation. It took about 25 minutes for firefighters to rescue Champin and her neighbors on the 8th floor. They had to climb over piles of rubble to get to the fire ladder.


A photo taken by Margarita Champin shows a view from her 8th floor Champlain Towers South condo of debris from the collapsed section of the building in Surfside.

[...]

USA TODAY

 

[sds71]

@JaviCNN

Surfside Mayor Burkett tells
@CNN
that rescue operations have resumed at the condo collapse site.
Officials are expected to provide an update in a press conference shortly.

 

[Katerz]

Earlier on twitter I saw a post of a fixed camera pointed towards the remaining building that showed a time lapse of the movement of the building since last week. It was obvious. Can't post it as it was a scanner person.

Yesterday, I also read a news article saying over 20 buildings failed an inspection this past week but can't find it.

I'll keep looking so take that for what it's worth.

Wish we could see it. I can’t find it

 

[Katerz]

Philippe Naïm was in his Paris apartment when he got a call early June 24 from his wife who was at the couple's beachside condo.

It was the middle of the night in Surfside, Florida, but Margarita Champin had heard a noise that had shaken her – like an explosion.

[...]

He stayed on the line as his wife went to check the outside hallway. The power was out, but from what she could see – dust, debris, drywall – she understood this was more than a fire. Naïm and Champin agreed to call every five minutes. He told her to check that her phone was fully charged, knowing this was the only lifeline they had.

[...]

Naïm scoured the Internet for information, but there was no news yet. He enlisted the help of his young nephew in Miami, who found a video feed of the Champlain South Tower taken from a hotel across the street.

He now understood what was happening: Huge sections of the condo had collapsed, unthinkably pancaking to the ground.

In the pitch black, Champin found her way to a neighbors' apartment with whom she waited with for evacuation. It took about 25 minutes for firefighters to rescue Champin and her neighbors on the 8th floor. They had to climb over piles of rubble to get to the fire ladder.

View attachment 303120
A photo taken by Margarita Champin shows a view from her 8th floor Champlain Towers South condo of debris from the collapsed section of the building in Surfside.

[...]

USA TODAY

Dang paywalls.

 

[bears10]

Can you envision a building inspector shaking down a building owner?
A list of problems, Real and contrived, with estimated cost to the building owner(s).
The inspector could make most of them go away for some "consideration".
It would take more than a "Hundred Dollar Handshake" to do it.
Look at the financials for the building inspectors.
Do you think anyone who would shake down a business owner would remember to pay taxes on the payoff.
It is dangerous in the building safety business, It is not dangerous in home safety, bar and restaurant inspections.
New York City has had a crane inspection department for decades. They still have corruption problems.
In some cities, the building inspectors are political hacks who return favors to favored persons and punish others.
It would be east to get in, make a ton of money and get out before things started collapsing.

My gut reaction to the email interactions between the HOA and the building inspector, and the building inspector regarding the property, was that something was off. Not saying that there was any shady business, but idk.

 

[GatorFL]

GatorFL Yes of course, you are correct. I am wondering if these layers of ownership was or could have been an issue in identifying who might have been staying in the units. I haven't heard about how people entered the building...was there a check-in/sign-in process? I know we have some posters who live in similar high rises....could you tell us about the process?

The trusts are pretty easy to figure out unless the trustees used an attorney as the registered agent.

Most of these buildings have a lobby and either a keycard entry system and/or a call box to go up to a unit. I believe there was a guard or a doorman at this building.

 

[GatorFL]

It doesn't seem as if this building is the same as what I was used to. I actually did own a condo unit in Miami Beach (farther south in North Beach area) from 2005 - 2011. In this case, the building was labeled as a condo-hotel, where rooms were leased out except and unless an owner wanted to use his/her unit. There was therefore a manger on duty 24/7 to check people in and out. IIR, the collapsed building did have a manger of some sort in the lobby....

I paid condo association fees, but also collected a percentage of the rentals when the unit was indeed used as such. I believe there are (or at least there were at the time) many condo buildings used in this fashion in the Miami beach area.

There are buildings as you describe all over, and in Miami. Very popular on vrbo and AirB&B. One of my favorite resorts over on Captiva is like that as well. Problem is YMMV depending on the owner. Some units are fantastic and others not so much. I don't think this was a building like that.