FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

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  • #281
I agree. He has only been on the job for seven months and has quite a mess to clean up. I give him a lot of credit for being truthful about his department dropping the ball. He could of had the department cover it up and never mentioned, but he was honest and is going to investigate. Sounds like he is going to make his employees accountable for thier actions. It might just make the next emplyee do thier job because they will know there will be noone covering for them IMO

Congress set a term limit of 10 years for FBI directors and most don’t last more than a few months or a couple years.

https://www.fbi.gov/history/directors


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  • #282
I would like to slowly torture the sob to death and bring him back to only do it again at min 17 times.
He was well enough to plan this and carry it out. He deserves nothing.
Crying... I feel you. So sorry for your loss and pain and rage. [emoji20]

You go right on and vent. Completely justified! Nothing can fill that big black empty place right now. Just feel it absorb it hate cry kick yell and ride it out. Been there. [emoji171]
 
  • #283
Some of us were trying to look at things that have changed now compared to the years before these school shootings started. I personally am only trying to look for answers as to how this has escalated over the years, not condemn anyone.
How things that have changed...

1. Breakdown of the nuclear family - many, many causes... Levittown, the first modern suburb, with houses too small for extended family members, prior it was not uncommon for multiple generations to live under one roof, and Levittown was only possible because the automobile became ubiquitous. Increasing numbers of women in the workforce, not only because it pulled women out of the home and role of primary caregiver, but because it made divorce more affordable, more common, and less stigmatized. It also made it economically possible for women to support children without ever marrying, and for fathers to ignore their responsibilities to their children. The rise of welfare and other social programs, many of which prioritized the needs of single mother households, thus disincentivising marriage. The war on drugs, which gave long sentences to otherwise nonviolent offenders, and contributed to the high incarceration rate of inner-city males, taking fathers away from families. Mostly good, or at least well-intended, changes, but changes which nonetheless undermined the family structure. Children need strong and stable families.

2. The decline of blue collar jobs - through most of the 20th century, a troubled young male could drop out of school and enter the working world and make enough to support himself and a family, often also gaining a sense of purpose, accomplishment, and belonging. Those types of jobs are largely gone now, so young people who may not be a good fit for our educational model must stay in school; there is no realistic alternative.

3. Changes in the treatment of the mentally ill - at one time, people could be easily committed to a mental hospital. Treatments like electroshock therapy and frontal lobotomies offered permanent solutions for out of control patients. Parents were encouraged to institutionalize children who had physical or mental disabilities. The rising awareness of the rights of the mentally ill brought troubled people back into the communities. When funding was cut off for mental hospitals, it became very difficult to hospitalize those who truly needed to be away from society, whether temporarily or permanently. Outpatient treatment also became less available.

4. The shrinking size of the world - it wasn't that long ago that a large percentage of people spent their entire lives in a single community. Telegraphs, then telephones, then faxes, then emails, then FaceTime decreased the perceived distance between people, as did trains, cars, and planes. There is an artificial sense of increasing problems in the world, because we hear about events we never would have even a generation ago. The internet not only brings news instantly from even the most remote parts of the world, it also creates a permanent record of our lives. It used to be a family with a troubled young person could send him off to live with a relative, providing an opportunity for a new start. Now, a person can't leave their past behind in the same way. At the same time, it's easier for people to move long distances, further eroding the sense of family and community. And of course there's the attraction of the echo chamber... Online it's easy to find like-minded people, as well as people who are damaged in similar ways to us. Thus, less incentive to interact with those whose opinions differ, and less incentive to conform to societal norms, and an increasing tendency for people of all sorts to move toward extremes.

5. Decreasing physical activity - hard to believe (sarcasm), but families did not always have three or four cars. People walked to school and to stores. Housework was a lot more physical before dishwashers and washing machines. We warm our homes with a click on an app, no need to shovel coal or chop wood, no need to even walk across the room. Socializing required people to get off their butts and go to wherever other people were; now, one can socialize all day and night without even getting out of bed. Physical activity is important. It's more effective than current medications for treating depression.

6. Population changes - the ever increasing size of classes and schools make personal and meaningful interaction between teachers and students much more difficult. Personal interactions between students are certainly very different. I grew up with everyone I graduated with, now schools are so large many classmates are complete strangers. Over twelve years, a child who has difficulty socializing can get to know and make friends with classmates if they are together every year. How does a child like that make friends when there are a thousand kids in his class? So many strangers, and so much easier to marginalize a misfit when you haven't known them since kindergarten.

These are the major sociological changes that I've come up with. I'm sure there are many more.

Many/most of the changes we've gone through are positives; (I certainly would not want to live in 1950s America), but collectively, I think there have been unanticipated and unintended negatives. But progress marches on. It's not possible to turn back the clock. The world is a very different place than it used to be.

How do we fix the bad without taking away the good? And, perhaps the more important question, how do we ensure our solutions don't give rise to other problems that we can't even conceive of now?

MOO

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  • #284
You really think it would have no positive impact? Teachers go on strike and it brings on a fix. Why can't students and parents?
And, FYI, districts do NOT get paid when children don't attend. That's why there's strict attendance policies.

BBM
The state I grew up in had the infamous "fourth Friday count." That count of students did indeed determine the district's funding for the year.

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  • #285
On another forum, a student who was in the third room NC shot into did an ama. Interesting and of course heart wrenching to read a teenager read about watching two of his classmates die in front of his eyes.
 
  • #286
The autism label being used by the MSM is disturbing to me to say the very least. The MSM is doing a disservice to itself and to many people with autism who would never commit such an act of violence as this one.

I read that RD article which I found to be very good. I think both teachers as well as parents have an obligation to help their children deal with feelings of isolation. There are so many ways children can refocus their energies and time - even those who were bullied in school (yes I've been a victim of bullying in grade school too). Pour that energy and concentration into achieving something worthwhile. If public schools are to ever get back on the right track it must start with individual achievement. Excelling in academics is great and a must. But we also need more of the following (example):

"Sally, that poem you wrote is really great, why don't you submit it for publication to (name of a children's literary journal)?"

People in business routinely attend motivational speaker events.

Why can't schools do the same thing?

I am saying all this because it is so important for an individual human being, no matter who it is, to learn how to convert negativity into something positive. It doesn't matter if the person is bullied, or the bully. This is something that must start within, not without.
 
  • #287
On another forum, a student who was in the third room NC shot into did an ama. Interesting and of course heart wrenching to read a teenager read about watching two of his classmates die in front of his eyes.

Bears10 I am assuming this was on Reddit? If so would you mind posting the link? It is important for all of use to read what this teenager has to say.

Yes, I am lifting the "No Reddit Posts" rule for this. :)

Tricia
 
  • #288
Bears10 I am assuming this was on Reddit? If so would you mind posting the link? It is important for all of use to read what this teenager has to say.

Yes, I am lifting the "No Reddit Posts" rule for this. [emoji4]

Tricia

Tricia be still my heart! I thought I was going to get in trouble if I said the R word [emoji4]. Here is the link, he seems like a very sweet and mature kid.

If we are allowed to discuss - and please modsnip if we’re not- he said he alarm didn’t go off until after NC started shooting. That was interesting to me. I’m not sure if that’s already been discussed since it’s been a busy couple days for me.


https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/7xzpac/im_sid_fischer_a_student_who_was_in_the_third/

ETA I also wish they didn’t go into the “orange dot” corner. If they went to the corner to the right of that, I wonder if it would have been different. It seems like they were front and center, directly in harms way.
 
  • #289
How things that have changed...

1. Breakdown of the nuclear family - many, many causes... Levittown, the first modern suburb, with houses too small for extended family members, prior it was not uncommon for multiple generations to live under one roof, and Levittown was only possible because the automobile became ubiquitous.

.....snipped for focus......

That was a great list. I wanted to focus on this one because ironically I was posting in another thread how I find it sad how we push our kids out of our homes when they get old enough to get a job. In some other cultures it is common to have 3 generations of a family all under one roof and to me it makes sense in a lot of ways.

Having kids around to take care of the elderly when they get very old was what we were talking about in another thread and that is a huge advantage to keeping kids in a family.
Being able to pool finances together and share in costs is another huge advantage.

It may not work for all families and the home would have to be large enough but I do see that as something I would be willing to entertain under the right conditions.

When I got pressured to leave my parents home I wondered if they really wanted me gone or were they doing that just because society norms are that way here. As they got elderly they probably wished they could have had me around.
 
  • #290
  • #291
Good to see you Hatfield. I can speak to Ontario schools. Private and some Catholic have uniform policy. Drills are also done here. Doors are locked and one must enter main entrance and check in at the Office. There really isn't much difference in terms of outer structure than other schools. High schools students entering first year are given a buddy/mentor to guide them thru the transition for the year. Niner nights are (grade 9) offered for all incoming with various fun activities. Zero tolerance of course as it is everywhere. I never nor my Children ever experienced a weapon being brought in. Not to say it hasn't happened elsewhere. Oh and to clarify we don't have middle school per say. After grade 8 is completed you enter high school. Both our Children attended Ont. University's without incident. Our Son did attend school on a scholarship in the deep south. After 1 year he wanted to return to Canada and did so.
 
  • #292
What are differences from 1952 to now? Violence in movies. Violence in video games. Violence on TV. Violence on the Internet. There were guns on TV back then, but the results were not shown.


Violence in movies has not changed over time - ever see "Adventures of Captain Marvel" 1941 Republic film serial?


Better known as today's DC's Shazam! title (yes a movie is being made about it with Zack Levi), Captain Marvel of 1941 had more in common with today's superhero style films and level of violence than in the original Fawcett comic books.


Who could possibly imagine a highly popular, beloved superhero of that time period (yes, even more popular than Superman!) using machine guns on the enemy?


Yet back then, school shootings as we know them did not occur. The 1940 South Pasadena Junior High School murders did not involve children but rather a disgruntled school employee.


It has been already mentioned that the breakdown of the nuclear family is a significant contributing factor, along with deinstitutionalization.


Having been born in 1967, my mother was a SAHM, Dad built our house, we all got by on his salary. We spent a lot of quality time together. My older brother and I had friends, and we always did something constructive together, unlike most kids today, we never "hung out". We had different values back then.


Nowadays things like owning multiple SUV's (the biggest of course), expensive clothes and shoes (yes for kids too), up to the minute electronic toys and mobile devices, video games etc. Gives the phrase "Keeping up with the Joneses" a whole new meaning. MOO but it has not helped us as a society.
 
  • #293
Good to see you Hatfield. I can speak to Ontario schools. Private and some Catholic have uniform policy. Drills are also done here. Doors are locked and one must enter main entrance and check in at the Office. There really isn't much difference in terms of outer structure than other schools. High schools students entering first year are given a buddy/mentor to guide them thru the transition for the year. Niner nights are (grade 9) offered for all incoming with various fun activities. Zero tolerance of course as it is everywhere. I never nor my Children ever experienced a weapon being brought in. Not to say it hasn't happened elsewhere. Oh and to clarify we don't have middle school per say. After grade 8 is completed you enter high school. Both our Children attended Ont. University's without incident. Our Son did attend school on a scholarship in the deep south. After 1 year he wanted to return to Canada and did so.

Thanks for sharing the Canada school experience Bravo. Sounds like there could be some positive differences there that may help.

I like the idea of mentors given to students entering a certain school year. Back when I went to school in NY it was pretty much get thrown in the fire as I remember being terrified and not having anyone to turn to.

I am sure there are differences even here amongst the states and it would be a good action plan to identify best practices from certain states and Canada and maybe try to incorporate them into all schools.
 
  • #294
  • #295
CNN now reporting the shooter had purchased 5 guns legally in FL. Assume they were purchased in the area of his home. ETA: They were purchased in the last year.

Interviewing someone right now who is saying in FL, nothing to stop gun stores from selling guns to the mentally ill. Really? If so, that's disgraceful.
 
  • #296
  • #297
CNN now reporting the shooter had purchased 5 guns legally in FL. Assume they were purchased in the area of his home. ETA: They were purchased in the last year.

Interviewing someone right now who is saying in FL, nothing to stop gun stores from selling guns to the mentally ill. Really? If so, that's disgraceful.


It Fl we are the wild west down here - come on down !
 
  • #298
Thanks bears for reddit link and Tricia for allowing it. It was informative, gut wrenching to read. Sid is an amazing young man. I'm still shaking from his words.
 
  • #299
Isn’t there some sort of cross reference gun shops do when selling guns? Sorry I really have no idea. If not allowed, I do apologize.


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  • #300
I was born in 86. My dad was born in 45, so grew up in the 50s. I have to laugh every time he criticizes my generation. Who do you think raised my generation??!!!! The people who lived in the 50s!!! Smh
 
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