FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[OneLove]

Do you believe that if someone gets smart and testy with you that you have the right to shoot them?

No, not at all, and that is my point. Songline made this statement and I have been completely dumbfounded by it ever since.

 

[LambChop]

I think the problem was that there were not a lot of teens outside walking around in hoodies or not. So he sees someone walking and he has never seen him before so he is going to check him out. Again, he is in his mind, a neighborhood watchman, so in his feeble mind, he is doing what he is supposed to do. I do not agree with his actions at all. I think he should have been arrested.

But to blame him for being suspicious of black teens is kind of unfair, imo. And my kids are both half black. But I am not going to pretend that there is no reason to be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 black kid walking at night in the neighborhood. There is a prominent and out of control culture which makes it seem cool to burglarize and jack cars and carry guns. And until these gangs are under control the people are going to be 'suspicious' of teens in hoodies.

The problem is GZ does not know everyone in that community and he certainly would not know who their visitors are because you are not required to sign in. He's not a watchman to any lessor or greater degree than the grandmother that lives down the street. He was their specific coordinator to set up information meetings, so sort of an administrative position not a watch commander by any stretch of the imagination. It was 7pm not 2am. In today's world boys are just as afraid of being approached by a stranger as girls are. Ask your kids. GZ had no reason to suspect him other than the scenairos he built up in his mind. Turns out he was wrong. It's too high a price to pay to make that kind of mistake when you were asked to wait for LE. It's not that he didn't get it. He understood perfectly but chose to not listen. jmo

 

[csziggy]

I still can't clearly hear if he says "c**n", and like I said in a previous post, up until this incident,I haven't heard anyone refer to a black with that term in like 30 years. Its something from my parents generation. I have no idea if GZ uses Urban language,but could this be what he says?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cooffer



cooffer






A man who evokes a certain indescribable feeling of creepiness and douchebag-ity.

The audio software I use shows a very basic wave pattern for the sound and there no indication of two syllables after the 'c' sound to me, the wave looks similar to other words that end in a 'n' sound, but it is not definitive.

Whether or not the 'c' word is used could be very local. For instance locally there is a community commonly called "Coontown" though the official name is Concord. There are not even that many blacks living there and have not been all that many in the last 40 years that I have been familiar with that area. Everybody uses both names for that place, interchangeably.

The name for that community is not thought of as being derogatory by anyone, even people who would use that term to describe a human being.

On the other hand, Florida had Governor Lawton Chiles who was known as the "He-Coon". The Chiles Foundation even has an ebook that you can download about The Legend of the He-Coon http://chilesfoundation.org/legend-of-he-coon-2/legend-of-he-coon/ It's a children's book about Gov. Chiles philosophy of government.

Since GZ grew up in Virginia the use as a derogatory could be from there or he could have learned it in Sanford. I haven't lived either place, so I don't know. I do know it was used in the part of Central Florida where I grew up as late as 1970 when I left that area.

 

[raeann]

My plan is to make him listen to the tape a few times and get his curiosity up about those noises. LOL LOL

A couple of cold drinks on ice for after he's through might help......just sayin'

 

[HiHater]

But in our neighborhood most of the recent burglaries have been in the afternoon and early evening. People break in while the families are most likely to be away from home. And the perps often case the areas during the early evevning so they will not look suspicious.

Generally speaking, most burglaries happen between 8-5. Working hours for both normal people and criminals. :moo::twocents:

 

[flourish]

I still can't clearly hear if he says "c**n", and like I said in a previous post, up until this incident,I haven't heard anyone refer to a black with that term in like 30 years. Its something from my parents generation. I have no idea if GZ uses Urban language,but could this be what he says?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cooffer



cooffer






A man who evokes a certain indescribable feeling of creepiness and douchebag-ity.

Just jumping off your post here...I totally thought he said "c**ns," for whatever that's worth

Just as an aside, I had two of my girlfriends over yesterday, and we were talking about this. One of them, who is 31, already knew what that word refers to, while the other, who is 40, did not know, and I had to tell her. Both my DH and I already knew what it meant--we're 36 and 38 respectively. *shrug* I don't think this word is a definite age or geographic location-related thing...I don't know why some know it and some don't, but when I first heard about it, it never occurred to me that someone GZ's age wouldn't know what it was. FWIW.

I don't proclaim to be hip or anything, but for what it's worth, I'd never heard of the word you mention above.

That's another reason I love WS--we pique each others' interests through our discussions. I like it when that happens

 

[katydid23]

I understand your 'nervousness' with the white kid in trench coat on a hot day in school. We call that being vigilant and aware. It is a healthy, protective reflex. But the distinction is did you whip out your phone and call 911 and tell them there was a suspicious student and expect them to come frisk/question him because of your heightened awareness?

I was told a LONG time ago that the police can not respond to everyone who would call in a 'suspicion' based on something that would clearly be seen as a bias. The person is not BREAKING ANY LAWS to be walking around looking different than what a person's particular comfort level allows.

As we have seen here at Websleuths, some people consider mere differences in fashion choices, such as style, piercings, tattoos, etc, to be "depraved", a word specifically used here by a poster. Life must be either very difficult for one with such an outlook OR very very limited in exposure.

Do we really want the police notified because my nephews and friends are visiting me from California? :floor laugh: One is a degreed landscape architect, one is a multi-degreed successful actor you have probably seen on television, both in late 20's, early 30's, but they dress "different" than anyone in my upscale waterfront neighborhood. And, yes, if either got stalked like Trayvon did, they wouldn't hesitate to ask what the stalker's problem was. If they got shot for taking a walk here, my rage and indignation would know no bounds. And if people said the things I've seen written here at Websleuths along the lines of they should have yassuh massah and run straight home, they caused it by being uppity, their teen missteps justified their shooting, their friends or family should have KEPT THEM INSIDE, such unbelievable crap all just to hold tight to extreme prejudice while DENYING that very prejudice, well, I can tell you I would be provoked to violence, no doubt about it.

I didn't call LE but I did notify the front office at one point. So did others and he was searched on a few occasions.

GZ is obviously messed up in the head and should be investigated and probably arrested. But it bothers me greatly that the black activists are not looking more closely and entering in the national dialogue about WHY this suspicion of teens in hoodies exists. They are seeming to blame it all on white people being racists. And that is unfair, imo. Even rev Jackson once said that when he heard footsteps behind him at night he was relieved it was a white man.

There were 900 young black males killed in our nation. Over 800 of them were killed by other blacks. Is that due to racism? It is that level of violence that prompts some people to feel suspicious and afraid when they see black teens in hoodies walking in their neighborhood at night. they imagine, with some logic, that the teens could be packing heat.

 

[raeann]

OMG, HAHAHAHAHAHAH, I DID ask some of our EMT's what they would do if someone told them they had had their head hit against concrete and even that got me some looks like I was nuts....BTW, did anyone else hear Taafe the other night when suddenly the gash that needed stitches change to a contusion, which is nothing more than a huge bruise and would not bleed?

If I didn't think the man was lying thorugh his teeth, and trying to get his 15 minutes of fame, I just don't think I would like him, he is too belligerant IMO.

I asked an ER doctor who gave me the politically correct response of...."EMS has a precise protocol to evaluate the possibility of any type of head injury. They would complete that immediately and if there was any possibility of injury they would inform the police who would then have transported him to the ED whether he wanted to go or not."

 

[Emeralgem]

Agree totally.He was paranoid and overly suspicious. And he was wrong to get out of his car and follow.

I am just trying to put a little objectivity into some of the absolute hatred and prematurity in sending him to death row for being a racist brutal killer.

I think he has issues and was in the wrong. But it bothers me that the black activists are trying to spin this as 'white racists hunting down innocent blacks.' They are ignoring their own part in this thing. As long as they ignore the out of control culture which praises violence and makes young blacks want to carry guns and use violence and jack cars then there is going to be racial profiling.

Excuse me... BUT.. BLACKS (as you refer to them) are not the only race of people who carry guns, use violence or jack cars....JMHO...

 

[uvamerica]

OMG, HAHAHAHAHAHAH, I DID ask some of our EMT's what they would do if someone told them they had had their head hit against concrete and even that got me some looks like I was nuts....BTW, did anyone else hear Taafe the other night when suddenly the gash that needed stitches change to a contusion, which is nothing more than a huge bruise and would not bleed?

If I didn't think the man was lying thorugh his teeth, and trying to get his 15 minutes of fame, I just don't think I would like him, he is too belligerant IMO.

I did hear that, and a contusion is nothing more than a bruise. I have the feeling the more evidence comes out, the story will change yet again, GZ's camp should just keep quiet, for when and if this case gets to court they will have allot of explaining to do !!

 

[HiHater]

Just jumping off your post here...I totally thought he said "c**ns," for whatever that's worth

Just as an aside, I had two of my girlfriends over yesterday, and we were talking about this. One of them, who is 31, already knew what that word refers to, while the other, who is 40, did not know, and I had to tell her. Both my DH and I already knew what it meant--we're 36 and 38 respectively. *shrug* I don't think this word is a definite age or geographic location-related thing...I don't know why some know it and some don't, but when I first heard about it, it never occurred to me that someone GZ's age wouldn't know what it was. FWIW.

I don't proclaim to be hip or anything, but for what it's worth, I'd never heard of the word you mention above.

That's another reason I love WS--we pique each others' interests through our discussions. I like it when that happens

FWIW, I'm younger than GZ, and I've heard that word...

 

[Sensei]

I asked an ER doctor who gave me the politically correct response of...."EMS has a precise protocol to evaluate the possibility of any type of head injury. They would complete that immediately and if there was any possibility of injury they would inform the police who would then have transported him to the ED whether he wanted to go or not."

Pretty much what I got, except they were a bit more succint, not being doctors and all, they just said that they were not going to lose a patient to a closed head injury, have someone start convlusing or just die 20 minutes after they left and then be sued out of existance, they would transport, period if they had a story of someone hitting their head on concrete and saw any actual evidence of it.

 

[Donjeta]

Agree totally.He was paranoid and overly suspicious. And he was wrong to get out of his car and follow.

I am just trying to put a little objectivity into some of the absolute hatred and prematurity in sending him to death row for being a racist brutal killer.

I think he has issues and was in the wrong. But it bothers me that the black activists are trying to spin this as 'white racists hunting down innocent blacks.' They are ignoring their own part in this thing. As long as they ignore the out of control culture which praises violence and makes young blacks want to carry guns and use violence and jack cars then there is going to be racial profiling.

FWIW I don't think GZ had planned to hunt someone down that night either and I totally agree that something more should be done about the glorification of violence in some subcultures.

But in this instance it was not the black kid who carried a gun and the actions of inactions of some other people unrelated to either the shooter or the deceased should not be a factor here. TM should not have had to die for whatever some other black people may have done or not done.

 

[flourish]

But in our neighborhood most of the recent burglaries have been in the afternoon and early evening. People break in while the families are most likely to be away from home. And the perps often case the areas during the early evevning so they will not look suspicious.

Wow.

TM did not live there. He could not have possibly been behind the recent burglaries in THIS PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. He was walking down the street. Even if he was "casing" the joint, as far as I understand the word, casing involves looking, which isn't a crime.

I'm continually incredulous.

 

[vlpate]

How do you know for a FACT that GZ was on his way to the store?

You're right, how do we know for a fact that Trayvon was on his way home? We don't.

My guess is Zimmerman probably told his wife he was on his way to Target....just like TM told his friend he was going to 7-11.

 

[vlpate]

Pretty much what I got, except they were a bit more succint, not being doctors and all, they just said that they were not going to lose a patient to a closed head injury, have someone start convlusing or just die 20 minutes after they left and then be sued out of existance, they would transport, period if they had a story of someone hitting their head on concrete and saw any actual evidence of it.

GZ probably signed a waiver of liability.

 

[TonyGatto]

You're right, how do we know for a fact that Trayvon was on his way home? We don't.

My guess is Zimmerman probably told his wife he was on his way to Target....just like TM told his friend he was going to 7-11.

I never said Trayvon was on his way home. You, however, stated that GZ was going to Target.

 

[HiHater]

I didn't call LE but I did notify the front office at one point. So did others and he was searched on a few occasions.

GZ is obviously messed up in the head and should be investigated and probably arrested. But it bothers me greatly that the black activists are not looking more closely and entering in the national dialogue about WHY this suspicion of teens in hoodies exists. They are seeming to blame it all on white people being racists. And that is unfair, imo. Even rev Jackson once said that when he heard footsteps behind him at night he was relieved it was a white man.

There were 900 young black males killed in our nation. Over 800 of them were killed by other blacks. Is that due to racism? It is that level of violence that prompts some people to feel suspicious and afraid when they see black teens in hoodies walking in their neighborhood at night. they imagine, with some logic, that the teens could be packing heat.

Discussing black on black crime in this context doesn't make sense. Just like black males kill each other a majority of the time, a white person is also more likely to be killed by another white person. So, your argument plays up fears that a) don't really pertain to the situation and b) are unfounded anyway.

JMO :twocents:

 

[raeann]

Just a little off topic comment about believing the media hype about ANY subject....as I watch the pre-game videos for the Final Four games, I remember clearly many of the same news anchors who are expounding on this case standing in front of floodwaters declaring that "NEW ORLEANS WILL NEVER RECOVER....... THE SUPER DOME IS A COMPLETE LOSS AND WILL HAVE TO BE DESTROYED.......THIS CITY IS GONE, IT WILL NEVER BE REBUILT....." and a few hundred other ridiculously WRONG comments meant to rile up America and pull in audience ratings.


jmo

 

[flourish]

Agree totally.He was paranoid and overly suspicious. And he was wrong to get out of his car and follow.

I am just trying to put a little objectivity into some of the absolute hatred and prematurity in sending him to death row for being a racist brutal killer.

I think he has issues and was in the wrong. But it bothers me that the black activists are trying to spin this as 'white racists hunting down innocent blacks.' They are ignoring their own part in this thing. As long as they ignore the out of control culture which praises violence and makes young blacks want to carry guns and use violence and jack cars then there is going to be racial profiling.

Respectfully, this bbm part is where I take issue. GZ has not even been arrested yet. No one is asking him to be sent to death row without a fair trial. This exaggeration isn't helping anyone. imo