UK UK - Penny Bell, 43, Ealing, London, 6 June 1991

[Professor Moriarty]

I'm possibly clutching at straws, but could gloves have protected the killer's hand if he used a non lock blade?

I don't think a non-locking pocket knife would have been suitable. If you are using force to stab that many times the blade would keep shutting and, wearing gloves, you would have difficulty opening it again each time.

 

[tes1984]

I don't think a non-locking pocket knife would have been suitable. If you are using force to stab that many times the blade would keep shutting and, wearing gloves, you would have difficulty opening it again each time.

Some of the bigger (and illegal to carry) Swiss Army knives had buttons to lock the blade.

Penny was stabbed with a four inch blade, which seems about the right size for a large Swiss Army knife.. or a small locking knife, or small kitchen knife...

 

[Professor Moriarty]

Some of the bigger (and illegal to carry) Swiss Army knives had buttons to lock the blade.

Penny was stabbed with a four inch blade, which seems about the right size for a large Swiss Army knife.. or a small locking knife, or small kitchen knife...

Yes. The bigger Swiss Army Knives. (The blade locks automatically on opening; the button is to release the blade for closing.) Locking knives are illegal to carry, but many only have that locking blade (ie they don't have bottle openers, scissors etc) and so are quite slim.

Although flick knives have been illegal for years, there are many in circulation. Airport security sometimes pick them up in the luggage of people returning from overseas. Some must get through.

 

[tes1984]

I could easily see someone like JR carrying a knife in 1991.

He was a criminal, but in his late 40s and wasn't likely to be stopped and searched by police.

 

[davidt]

Weee lockable knives banned by 1991?

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I think so: Criminal Justice Act 1988.

 

[davidt]

I think so: Criminal Justice Act 1988.

I probably need to read the legislation but I wonder exactly what that covered and what exemptions or exceptions there may have been? Growing up from a farming background and living rurally I always had a pocket knife of some sort or another. Just about everyone else did as well. I know I bought some long after 1991 where the blade locked in to place. I've also got one or two garden "multi tools" that include a blade that locks in place. Again I wonder if perhaps those aren't covered? In any event if the legislation was introduced in 1988 there will still have been large numbers in circulation in 1991. I doubt too many threw away what they already had.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

I probably need to read the legislation but I wonder exactly what that covered and what exemptions or exceptions there may have been? Growing up from a farming background and living rurally I always had a pocket knife of some sort or another. Just about everyone else did as well. I know I bought some long after 1991 where the blade locked in to place. I've also got one or two garden "multi tools" that include a blade that locks in place. Again I wonder if perhaps those aren't covered? In any event if the legislation was introduced in 1988 there will still have been large numbers in circulation in 1991. I doubt too many threw away what they already had.

You can have one in a public place if you have good reason to do so.

 

[goingwest12]

Hi all, thought I would add something as someone who spent most of my childhood in the nearby Pitshanger Park and I know that area extremely well, I live about a 5 minute walk from the crime scene. I even went to Gurnell leisure centre before it closed each week for about 5 years as a child, but I found the appeal of the witness of a man as "if he had just washed, walking across the footbridge that crosses the A40 Western Avenue, Greenford, on the day Penny was killed." particularly interesting.

In my 20 years of going around that park I have never seen significant activity in the adjacent green that coincidentally goes through an isolated section of the river Brent, unless it was for football matches on the weekends. The odd dog walker yes, but people using that green, especially before the construction of the skate park on a Thursday during the day would have been almost nobody. Most people would visited Gurnell car park for the leisure centre and its facilities, the rest would go to the more popular Pitshanger park next door or the other park located on the other side of the footbridge. IMO the killer could have spent as long as he wanted washing himself in the river and taking his clothes off. One section even goes under a bridge in which numerous cars pass. Unless you are specifically looking over a 15 foot drop there is no way anybody would have spotted him. that green leads directly to the bridge via one road with multiple houses, but running you would pass the houses within about 30 seconds and at the end it goes to exactly the bridge where the witness saw the man . On the other side is a collection of houses, perhaps his car or home was here? Not sure if this is of any use but thought it might be.

 

[lee sumner]

So would it be fair to say we have no certainty where the money was after Tuesday and before Thursday when she was killed? She may have had it in her bag or it may have been kept elsewhere? We also can't be sure who else may have known she had the money at the time. And yes if she did carry it with her all the time was it because she might need it at any time. You wouldn't think anyone would want to carry around such a sum needlessly.

the money was from her and husband joint account. if it was business it would have been taken from coverstaff account.

 

[lee sumner]

Just to go back on the possible sightings of her in her car that day. She was driving an artic/sky blue Jaguar XJS at the time. Its a very distinctive car to start with and even more so given the colour. It's not the sort of car you'd mix up with something else. I'm sure the police checked but I imagine there were very few, if any other cars of the same type and colour in the general area. For that reason I do find the sightings of her plausible although it's not impossible there may have been another one of the same type and colour around. If she'd been driving a Volkswagen Golf or something I'd feel very different.

i thought about this and i wonder how could witness after witness see penny with windscreen wipers on and the hazards flashing. the killer in the car with her would switch them off. he would not allow penny to try and signal for help by doing this. if she was being guided at knife point to gurnell grove car park she would have been terrified and compliant.

 

[lee sumner]

Also why didn't he switch them off after he had killed Penny?
He reached across the car and wound down Penny's window, then exited the vehicle and continued stabbing Penny through the open window.
He shuts the passenger door, yet leaves the wipers and hazard lights on.

The wipers/hazards might be an indicator that at least one of the witnesses is correct. Or could the witness have got that information from media reports or the reconstruction, and added it to his 'memory' of the event?

they were on when her body was found, but i think she managed to put them on when the killer escaped. as she was dying it was her last action to try and signal for help as she was slowly dying in her vehicle. i think this theory is the only one that makes sense.

 

[lee sumner]

I don't have the newspaper links to hand but IIRC it was Alistair Bell who said it.

Penny had spent a fortune on the house renovations. Alistair said she had been drawing out big amounts of cash to pay builders on a regular basis.

builders were questioned about how they were being paid, and the money took out was not there wages, and PB was not paying them in cash to avoid VAT.

 

[dotr]

Hi all, thought I would add something as someone who spent most of my childhood in the nearby Pitshanger Park and I know that area extremely well, I live about a 5 minute walk from the crime scene. I even went to Gurnell leisure centre before it closed each week for about 5 years as a child, but I found the appeal of the witness of a man as "if he had just washed, walking across the footbridge that crosses the A40 Western Avenue, Greenford, on the day Penny was killed." particularly interesting.

In my 20 years of going around that park I have never seen significant activity in the adjacent green that coincidentally goes through an isolated section of the river Brent, unless it was for football matches on the weekends. The odd dog walker yes, but people using that green, especially before the construction of the skate park on a Thursday during the day would have been almost nobody. Most people would visited Gurnell car park for the leisure centre and its facilities, the rest would go to the more popular Pitshanger park next door or the other park located on the other side of the footbridge. IMO the killer could have spent as long as he wanted washing himself in the river and taking his clothes off. One section even goes under a bridge in which numerous cars pass. Unless you are specifically looking over a 15 foot drop there is no way anybody would have spotted him. that green leads directly to the bridge via one road with multiple houses, but running you would pass the houses within about 30 seconds and at the end it goes to exactly the bridge where the witness saw the man . On the other side is a collection of houses, perhaps his car or home was here? Not sure if this is of any use but thought it might be.

Welcome to Ws @goingwest12, thanks for chiming in with local information which is always helpful!

 

[lee sumner]

I was also wondering how much of a cash element was involved in Penny's catering recruitment agency.

I have no idea about how such businesses were run in the early 90s. How did she negotiate the big contracts for society events? Could there have been cash payments under the table to secure deals?

It was mentioned that Penny was very good at collecting unpaid invoices, with the company only very rarely having to go through the courts. I wonder if she ever used debt collectors/hired muscle to help persuade reluctant payers.

penny bell was director of coverstaff. she was earning about 80 thousand a year as a director. she set up the company with her partner michael carpenter. she had worked for MC years before and the 2 decided to set up there own company, coverstaff, which supplies catering staff for big events like ascot and wimbledon, they supplied staff for hotels as well. this is me giving a basic overview of PB and company, coverstaff.

 

[lee sumner]

It's strange though that she allows her daughter and nanny to notice the cash.

If the money is for something illegal then why isn't she more secretive with the cash? Why let other people notice it?

And does Alistair know about the cash withdrawal? I've never seen this confirmed in his interviews. IIRC he seems to give the impression that he didn't know about it though.

It was a joint bank account so presumably he would have noticed they were 8.5k down at some point in the near future. Although again in interviews IIRC he gives the impression that Penny dealt with all the finances etc.

yes, penny probably wore the trousers in the relationship. handled the finances etc. she was earning a lot more than AB at the time. alistair would take the 2 kids to school in the morning while penny left for work. there roles as parents are almost reversed.

 

[lee sumner]

Just re-read page 1 and two things stand out.

1. Penny had been very stressed, as stressed as her family had ever seen her. She wouldn’t talk about it.
2. There’s mention of an adopted child earlier on in her life.

These two facts add up to blackmail and a spurred child could have the emotion to react as feverishly as the perpetrator did.

Has anyone else come across this line of enquiry before?

adopted child. never heard this before. i know penny was adopted.

 

[lee sumner]

I am sure I read that the daughter has a pretty good idea who the culprit is. Perhaps they have now found the evidence to pursue this.

SIO ds brian edwards knows who the killer is, but he could never prove it.

 

[lee sumner]

penny bell was director of coverstaff. she was earning about 80 thousand a year as a director. she set up the company with her partner michael carpenter. she had worked for MC years before and the 2 decided to set up there own company, coverstaff, which supplies catering staff for big events like ascot and wimbledon, they supplied staff for hotels as well. this is me giving a basic overview of PB and company, coverstaff.

michael flynn was her partner at coverstaff. my mistake.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

SIO ds brian edwards knows who the killer is, but he could never prove it.

In one interview, the daughter says she thinks she knows who did it. But what was the motive?