FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[Horace Finklestein]

TM's only crime was fitting the GZ's stereotype of a burglar. He was young, black, male and on foot. GZ called the police to report a suspicious person when TM had done nothing out of the ordinary. It's not a crime to walk slow, it's not even out of the ordinary when you are talking on the phone. Looking back at someone who is sitting in a truck staring at you is also an expected response.

GM grabbed his gun, got out of his truck and ran after TM to make sure he didn't get away. But TM wasn't fleeing the scene of a crime, he was just walking back home.

More opinion stated as fact. We do not know that TM did not initiate the fight.

 

[imamaze]

Knock off the talk about the twitter accounts. Maybe one of the other Mods can say one way or the other what's allowed,until they do knock it off!

Ima

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Ok... last warning before time outs are given. Trayvon is a victim, we don't bash victims! We don't call anyone names and its against TOS to attack someone for an opinion.

We don't sleuth minors!

Ima

Honest question - wasn't GZ listed as a potential victim a few threads back, due to the lack of specifics about how the fight started (ie it could have been self defense). Is the GZ bashing ok?

 

[2goldfish]

He says "****ing punks". How anyone can hear other wise is beyond me.

The only reason anyone cares about this case is because they think it was a racial attack. If Martin was killed by another black man, as so many young black males are every day, no one would give a damn.

you are on a true crime forum filled with thousands of peole who care very much about all victims regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation etc and so on

it's incredibly unfair to me to state such a thing especially on WS.

 

[iluvmua]

Didn't GZ identify him as a kid in his call to the dispatcher???

Nope, not that I can tell.

 

[pinkflamingo]

Didn't GZ identify him as a kid in his call to the dispatcher???

He called him a guy. I would assume 18-23 if I saw someone that tall.

 

[songline]

I bet police find her to be a credible witness. She has no reason to lie, for one thing, and her story fits neatly with the 911 tapes which are in Zimmerman's own words.

Beyond that, we don't know what she did or said.

Even if she didn't contact someone after the conversation abruptly stopped, she may have just thought he hung up. But also, I think I understand this as a mother who has raised three teenagers. They may have phone numbers for friends, but not their friend's parents. In fact, most parents tell kids not to give out family numbers to anyone. And it's almost impossible to find a land line number anymore.

And most young teenagers wouldn't jump to the worst possible conclusion if the phone went dead. They have no life experiences to prepare them for the death of a friend on an ordinary evening. They don't automatically think they need to call 911. But again, we don't know what she did or didn't do. JMOO

I do not agree. :nono:
The only thing they can prove or have proved is that indeed TM and his GF spoke.
What exactly happened or was said they can’t prove. UNLESS there are some text messages.

IMHO if it happened as she said...NO MATTER THE AGE...even a 7 year old would know that if someone was following to go seek advice or help.
so she did not have his families #'s but she knew 911 everyone does. So her BF is followed and the phone goes dead and then what?

 

[imamaze]

Honest question - wasn't GZ listed as a potential victim a few threads back, due to the lack of specifics about how the fight started (ie it could have been self defense). Is the GZ bashing ok?

Your correct! No bashing either Trayvon or GZ, discuss them with what we know. No name calling and no bashing!

Ima

 

[Footwarrior]

GZ claimed that he was acting suspiciously like he was on drugs or something. I believe that is verbatim from the 911 call. As a bouncer, I am sure he knew what and how drugs affect people. GZ had a legal right to hold the loaded gun, and walk around the neighborhood too. And I think he thought TM was armed. jmoo

What GZ understood was what words were needed to get the police to come. The police will not respond to a report of a black male on foot.

GZ was also fired from at least one bouncer job for using excess force. He escalated conflicts instead of quieting them down.

 

[songline]

Honest question - wasn't GZ listed as a potential victim a few threads back, due to the lack of specifics about how the fight started (ie it could have been self defense). Is the GZ bashing ok?

Good morning HF
that is what I ask too.

 

[CathyinTexas]

No, this is not his actual brother, but TM's father's girlfriend's son.

This is Trayvon's blood half brother. You don't have your facts straight. He said that he doesn't believe his brother is dead, he is in denial and shock still, imo. Also, at the end he said he doesn't know for sure whose voice on the tape, that he hasn't listened that well, and when they come on television he won't listen to them. That tells me he knows it is Trayvon and it hurts too much. He hasn't accepted that his brother is dead, imo.

 

[annalia]

I'm sorry, but :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Maybe you would in your neighborhood, but I certainly wouldn't.

I'm a caucasian female, married to a white caucasian male and live in a very racially and ethnically diverse neighborhood. If I called 911 to report every young black male who fit that description, I'd put GZ to shame.

People are people. If TM had been peeking into windows or cars, or exhibiting any other sort of unusual behavior, then I could see that as suspicious. But GZ himself never stated anything of the kind. Regardless, he shouldn't have followed or confronted Trayvon, especially with a loaded gun.

Especially when in his most recent pictures, right before his death, he looked like this.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...rtin-pictures-20120328,0,3247003.photogallery

I don't know where it was ever reported that he was wearing a grill with baggy thugwear looking clothes. He was in jeans and a hoodie, what the vast majority of kids wear.

There's another pic that was posted here, I'll look for it, he was with his girlfriend and he's in a plain hoodie and cargo pants. My kids lived in cargo pants, I thought they were more prepwear.

JMHO

 

[LambChop]

Well, so, a strange guy is walking down your street with hands in his pockets, looking like TM with the grill, not TM the 12 year old pilot, 6 foot 3 in baggy clothes and you're going to be thinking, gee, what a nice guy? C'mon! REALLY? Everyone would be terrified! I would have been! Sorry if that makes me a racist. I would have been terrified by anyone that fit that description, regardless of race!

That describes pretty much most of the 17 year old black males in my county and I'm not terrified. And yes I do think they are nice because if they are coming out of the store they ALWAYS hold the door for me. Always. I'm in the south, in a county where 50% are white. I'm sure there are some trouble makers out there but I've not run into them. Maybe it's because I always genuniely smile at people when I approach. I think attitude is a big factor but someone has to initiate it in a positive manner to get results. Remember you can't see that look of distrust on your face...only they can. This was GZ problem. It's all right there on that tape to the dispatcher. TM was set up to be bad from first sight. How simple it would have been for GZ to smile and say, hey guy, you need a ride home, you're getting all wet? It's all in the approach. jmo

 

[songline]

FWIW the CNN link witht the audio snippet earlier, they were saying that TM would have had no duty to answer GZ's questions respectfully or otherwise, he was not authorized to question him and even if he had been LE you can refuse to answer even LE questioning.

I wonder why GZ did not identify himself so the kid would know he is a watchman?
If I answear my own question this is all I can come up with:
Maybe GZ wanted to see what TM may be up to.?

 

[BuzzieCat]

And while the CNN anchor involved declined to state definitively whether the slur was used, both the editor and the anchor said it sounded an awful lot like it was, especially when the word alone was isolated. Mediaite discovered the segment and linked it. You can watch and decide for yourself below:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn...mmerman-911-call-racial-slur-now-very-likely/

I posted this in the other thread..I believe this is very clear here..I hear it clearly...according to this the police claim they missed this...

Please listen and let me know if you hear what I do hear and it's a C...

That's rough. I can hear it either way. If I listen expecting a hard C, that's what I hear. If I listen expecting to hear "punks," I hear that.

 

[leanaí]

If Zimmerman wanted to make it all up then wouldn't he want to lie and say Martin was looking in windows? Wouldn't he want to make himself look way more beat up to convince people? Or atleast dirty himself up more then he was?

He didn't do any of these things so why is it people believe he was out for blood?

 

[SuziQ]

I for one do not believe a word the girlfriend says.

Does anyone know when she found out Martin was killed? If she heard all she says she did she sure wasn't concerned enough to make sure he was alright.

There is lots out there about what Trayvon's GF did. You can google the info. She acted in a timely manner and appropriately. SPD however, wouldn't return her calls.

 

[LambChop]

I do not agree. :nono:
The only thing they can prove or have proved is that indeed TM and his GF spoke.
What exactly happened or was said they can’t prove. UNLESS there are some text messages.

IMHO if it happened as she said...NO MATTER THE AGE...even a 7 year old would know that if someone was following to go seek advice or help.
so she did not have his families #'s but she knew 911 everyone does. So her BF is followed and the phone goes dead and then what?

We do not know what she did after hanging up with him and it's not fair to judge her because we do not have any direct information. And frankly seeing how she is coming under fire I hope her parents give no further statements to anyone other than LE and her statement is also sealed, along with the other minors in this case. This will scar her for the rest of her life. jmo

 

[songline]

There is lots out there about what Trayvon's GF did. You can google the info. She acted in a timely manner and appropriately. SPD however, wouldn't return her calls.

:moo:
I do not believe anything that can’t be proven 100%
I only believe that they were on the phone together.
:moo:

 

[belle3]

If Zimmerman wanted to make it all up then wouldn't he want to lie and say Martin was looking in windows? Wouldn't he want to make himself look way more beat up to convince people? Or atleast dirty himself up more then he was?

He didn't do any of these things so why is it people believe he was out for blood?

Honestly, i believe he thought it wouldnt get this far and it would just "all blow over" so to speak. He didnt expect to see himself on video and that he would have to explain himself. His story kept changing as more details of the evening were released or leaked. Which make it a little bit hard to believe his version of events. We arent privy to what exactly happened that night. From what we know Mr. Zimmerman has put a story out there that is just too hard to prove. Maybe he has other things we havent seen like pics of his injuries or more complete 911 call exists that we havent heard that more clearly describes his recollection of events. I dont believe he originally intended to kill trayvon that night. I believe he wasnt gonna let another "punk" get away, and he didnt.