FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[Sensei]

Thanks. So this newsletter says to contact GZ after calling police. That makes much more sense.

What that does is makes the Home Owners Association a Respondent in a wrongful death claim....and the minutes of the meeting where other residents were complaining of GZ's too aggressive tactics makes it likely that they will win that claim, I sure hope their insurance is paid up.

 

[songline]

Pardon, but being all about ethics and fairness, you might want to ask your attorney family and friends what they think about you serving jury duty with a defendant OR plaintiff that wears their shorts showing from beneath their pants, given what you have said in print here at Websleuths. :what:

What are you talking about? :what:
Jury duty is not the same as my previous office post?
There is no way to reply nor will I try.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

OMG - I can't believe I went to the grocery store, was gone for an hour, come back and it's still being argued that Zimmerman was on his "watch" that night or "on duty" that night. I have posted the link to this article no less than 20 times on these threads that comes straight from the mouth of the Sanford police department's liaison between neighborhood watch programs and the police. It's written in English and believe it or not, it's really simple to comprehend.

In every presentation, “I go through what the rules and responsibilities are,” she said Thursday. The volunteers’ role, she said, is “being the eyes and ears” for the police, “not the vigilante.” Members of a neighborhood watch “are not supposed to confront anyone,” she said. “We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle.”

“I believe in neighborhood watch,” she said. “I advocate for neighborhood watch. I don’t want this black eye for neighborhood watch.”

In Sanford, she said, watch groups are not even supposed to make the rounds. That is the job of another kind of volunteer organization, Citizens on Patrol, whose members are selected and trained by the police and who drive the streets in a specially marked vehicle. Members of that group, Ms. Dorival said, “are armed only with a radio.”

A wide range of neighborhood watch organizations exist across the country. Some have patrols, while others like Sanford’s do not.

The manual warns that watch members should “not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity.” It should be emphasized to members of patrols, the materials state, that “they do not possess police power and they shall not carry weapons.” The consequences of not following the guidelines are severe, the manual states: “Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority.”

“You cannot control people’s actions,” Ms. Dorival said. “I do my best to lay the groundwork,” for conducting a safe and successful neighborhood watch program, “and tell them what they can and cannot do.” She added, “Obviously, he didn’t follow the basic philosophy of the neighborhood watch."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/#.T25fPDH2b2Z

By the way, it's raining cats and dogs here in north Florida and I didn't even attempt to wait 10 minutes for it to stop so I could run my errands and apparently neither did anyone that lives around here because the stores were packed.

I'm not sure if I know what "on duty" means in regards to a Neighborhood Watch Program. Some people seem to feel its 24/7 others do not. So it appears to be open to some interpretation hence the discussions.

 

[mfcmom]

What that does is makes the Home Owners Association a Respondent in a wrongful death claim....and the minutes of the meeting where other residents were complaining of GZ's too aggressive tactics makes it likely that they will win that claim, I sure hope their insurance is paid up.

Link.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It was not the sound of a magazine being loaded. It sounded like he was patting himself on the leg or something. It was very rhythmic.

Your the first poster I've seen use the correct term. Magazine vs clip.

 

[OneLove]

Me too, I would have stayed i my car with doors locked.
But we do NOT know that GZ used any deadly force.
We do know that something did happen and a boy is dead.
That is all we really know.

Just as you can imagine that maybe GZ used deadly force.
I can also imagine that maybe TM got smart and testy and caused this.
But do I know for sure? ... No I don

 

[dsntslp]

Your the first poster I've seen use the correct term. Magazine vs clip.

LOL! Weeelllllll...here in FL we shuck our sneakers and put our flippies on when it is raining.

Most of the kids I know would not be caught dead with an umbrella, btw. The kids here all wear...you guessed it...hoodies.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

LOL! Weeelllllll...here in FL we shuck our sneakers and put our flippies on when it is raining.

Most of the kids I know would not be caught dead with an umbrella, btw. The kids here all wear...you guessed it...hoodies.

Thanks. That's nice to know.

 

[Sensei]

Link.

The homeowners association acknowledged Zimmerman and the neighborhood crime watch in a February newsletter, according to the Associated Press. The newsletter encouraged residents to contact Zimmerman in case of an incident, it said.

http://www.wina.com/Analysis-If-Trayvon-Martin-family-pursues-civil-ca/11458736?newsId=134783

At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch captain role.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

 

[csziggy]

Chapter 776 Florida Statues
The part of the Law pertaining to Justifiable Use of Force. I can't print the whole thing here but would be happy to email it to anyone.

Link to the Florida Statute: CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

 

[TorisMom003]

Could anyone tell what type of shoes Zimmerman had on in the video at the police station?

They appear to be brown work boots or just boots. They are not tennis shoes or athletic shoes though.

 

[songline]

I feel the way about the dang pants down and underwear showing, if they knew what it signified in prison they wouldn't do it. That makes me laugh inside when I see it. the youth today have no mannners and don't know how to dress. If I where ever in a position to hire, the pants, tats, hair would be very much a part of "we'll call if we have an opening" not.

This is a continuation of someone getting huffy about not judging kids with gold teeth, and grids,
and what not....
Maybe not judging kids with screwdrivers and ladies jewelry in their lockers either.
NO NOT all kids are just innocent kids, some need to be straightened out.
IMHO They do know what pants to the knee signifies, and there are many great kids out there.
But we always had the rabble types, the dare devils, the geeks and everything else.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Could anyone tell what type of shoes Zimmerman had on in the video at the police station?

Doc, have you heard that clicking sound yourself?

 

[LambChop]

I know you were just responding to someone else but Benjamin Crump is not a criminal attorney:


That is only a small amount of information from his bio at his firm's website. I'd say he is probably the best qualified attorney in Florida for this case. He is a very impressive individual.

The poster said they should have a criminal attorney (that was not me) and not a civil right's attorney. I said they should have gotten a personal injury attorney because criminal is for defense. Another poster added that Atty Crump also handles wrongful death suits. I was not suggesting that Atty Crump was, it was the other poster. Thanks, interesting information about him.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I will! I am honestly going to try and figure this out and it should be possible to reproduce just those sounds.

I got to thinking, what if those sounds are not footsteps? What if they are the sound of someone rapping on a glass patio door for help?

Have you heard this? Is that what it sounds like?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

http://www.wina.com/Analysis-If-Trayvon-Martin-family-pursues-civil-ca/11458736?newsId=134783



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

So we have a un-named residents e-mail and a un-named member of the HOA board saying this,

A member of the homeowner’s association board, who asked not to be quoted by name, said she “hadn’t heard about any complaints” about Zimmerman.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

 

[cityslick]

GZ had already admitted to 911 that he was following TM. At that point, Trayvon was justified in turning to face his stalker and ask why he was stalking him, even if he said "what is your problem" or "you got a problem, man?". This 5'2" 57 year old pasty white woman might have done the same just to show a possible creep 'up to no good' that I wasn't intimidated by him, kwim?

If this DID happen, GZ should have gotten back in his car and waited for LE, NOT chased and shot TM. To me, it is clear that GZ's action from the point of having TM tell him to back off was provoked by anger and/or a driving passion to not have "this one" GET AWAY. that's my opinion.

In other words, you and everyone else here has no idea who threw the first blow?

 

[katydid23]

Personally I would have never left my vehicle to begin with. Police had been notified and were on the way. The dispatcher was told what direction the "suspect" was going. It is not my job to follow anyone, it is not my job to decide who does or does not belong in the neighborhood that I live in and it most certainly is not my job to decide to use deadly force against someone when I could have avoided the situation entirely.

MOO

True, and I agree. But let's say you did leave your vehicle. And maybe you thought you were protecting your neighborhood by keeping an eye on him while waiting for LE.

I think there is kind of a catch 22 going on here. We see so many cases here with missing victims or people killed in their homes. And we all wish that someone in their neighborhood had kept their eyes open and watched for anything suspicious. IF Trayvon had been an armed robber, then GZ would be a hero right now. But he wasn't, he was just a teen walking home from the snack store. GZ made a horrid set of choices that night. But I do not believe he is an evil man. I believe he was trying to protect his little neighborhood and was out of line. He should have been arrested for manslaughter that first night.

But all of this hatred and outrage, calling him a cold blooded brutal killer is out of line too, imo. IF there were 8 previous burglaries where the perps were thought to be black teens, then he was thinking he was on the right track. That does not make him a Klansmen. He was wrong to follow the kid, agreed. But once he did, and that was not ILLEGAL for him to do, but once he did, what if TM did join in a struggle? What if they were fighting over the gun once TM saw it in his waistband?

As for the racial profiling question--It is strange because most of my black friends are 100% behind racially profiling at the airport. They think that Middle Eastern looking travelers SHOULD be pulled out of line and searched because that is who has been blowing up our planes. So I think it is a little hypocritical for them to wonder why a watchman might be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 inch black teen in a hoodie that night. They cannot ignore the fact that the african amercan teens are committing violent crimes at 8 times the number of other teens. Until that stops, there will be some level of racial profiling.

 

[songline]

I doubt it was necessary for Zimmerman to use deadly force to protect his own life, but that is what we have courts for, and I hope this makes it there.

My point is that Neighborhood Watch-ers are supposed to watch. They are not to pursue. They are not to put themselves in harm's way such that self-defense is even an issue. Law enforcement professionals are trained to keep loss of civilian life, in general and ideally, minimal. The real cops get to decide when to shoot in these situations, and the job of the wanna-be's is to stay home and help LE with observations, not fire power.

I see it getting to court and hope it does.
That is what I think, YES we have courts, and an investigation is important.
we also have crazy laws, (that I do not believe in - the self defense one) and I think that when one can talk and one cant you must investigate.
I do not like that GZ has been hung and TO ME that is NOT JUSTICE – I would like to see justice and that means lets deal with only what we know for sure, and hope to unleash the rest.
But a lynch mob is not my way, it should not be the American way. Nor should we allow a young life gone not to be investigated.

As far as GZ using a gun, I wonder why he did not shoot the leg or shoulder IF HE ABSOLUTLY HAD to shoot. This will eventually be answered I hope.

 

[tehcloser]

Have you heard this? Is that what it sounds like?

http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/307click.wav

12:33 PM
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/139swishing.wav
www.woodswell.com

12:33 PM
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/209alarm.wav
www.woodswell.com

Fixed it.............