FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[OneLove]

Me too, I would have stayed i my car with doors locked.
But we do NOT know that GZ used any deadly force.
We do know that something did happen and a boy is dead.
That is all we really know.

Just as you can imagine that maybe GZ used deadly force.
I can also imagine that maybe TM got smart and testy and caused this.
But do I know for sure? ... No I don

 

[Sensei]

So we have a un-named residents e-mail and a un-named member of the HOA board saying this,


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html

If it was printed in the newsletter then there will be copies of it somewhere, I am only providing the links to what is published I did not see the newsletter myself, the link to other residents who felt that GZ's tactics were too aggressive also, but if we will all recall that is not the first time that we have heard that charge, along with him emailing descriptions of suspcious people and also the one resident who realized he looked like the profile of the perpetrator in one of Zimmerman's emails and decided that he was not going to walk around is own neighborhood for fear of someone calling LE on him.

 

[TorisMom003]

Have you heard this? Is that what it sounds like?

I know you aren't asking me but I just listened to the tape and to me it sounds like the dispatcher is hitting keys on his keyboard. Perhaps the enter key three times in the row or something like that. It does not sound like it is something that is coming from Zimmerman's end of the conversation though.

MOO

 

[songline]

True, and I agree. But let's say you did leave your vehicle. And maybe you thought you were protecting your neighborhood by keeping an eye on him while waiting for LE.

I think there is kind of a catch 22 going on here. We see so many cases here with missing victims or people killed in their homes. And we all wish that someone in their neighborhood had kept their eyes open and watched for anything suspicious. IF Trayvon had been an armed robber, then GZ would be a hero right now. But he wasn't, he was just a teen walking home from the snack store. GZ made a horrid set of choices that night. But I do not believe he is an evil man. I believe he was trying to protect his little neighborhood and was out of line. He should have been arrested for manslaughter that first night.

But all of this hatred and outrage, calling him a cold blooded brutal killer is out of line too, imo. IF there were 8 previous burglaries where the perps were thought to be black teens, then he was thinking he was on the right track. That does not make him a Klansmen. He was wrong to follow the kid, agreed. But once he did, and that was not ILLEGAL for him to do, but once he did, what if TM did join in a struggle? What if they were fighting over the gun once TM saw it in his waistband?

As for the racial profiling question--It is strange because most of my black friends are 100% behind racially profiling at the airport. They think that Middle Eastern looking travelers SHOULD be pulled out of line and searched because that is who has been blowing up our planes. So I think it is a little hypocritical for them to wonder why a watchman might be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 inch black teen in a hoodie that night. They cannot ignore the fact that the african amercan teens are committing violent crimes at 8 times the number of other teens. Until that stops, there will be some level of racial profiling.

POST OF THE WEEK :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[LambChop]

I'm not sure if I know what "on duty" means in regards to a Neighborhood Watch Program. Some people seem to feel its 24/7 others do not. So it appears to be open to some interpretation hence the discussions.

If you do not read the manual it is up to interpretation. However, if you read the manual you will see there is no "on duty", no obligation to do anything other than call in suspicious behavior. That is it. No 24/7, no patrol, just be aware of your surroundings and report problems of a criminal nature. Not trash in the road, kids playing ball in the street, etc.

The manual is very clear, there could never be a misunderstanding if you attended the meeting by LE or read the manual. jmo

 

[Donjeta]

True, and I agree. But let's say you did leave your vehicle. And maybe you thought you were protecting your neighborhood by keeping an eye on him while waiting for LE.

I think there is kind of a catch 22 going on here. We see so many cases here with missing victims or people killed in their homes. And we all wish that someone in their neighborhood had kept their eyes open and watched for anything suspicious. IF Trayvon had been an armed robber, then GZ would be a hero right now. But he wasn't, he was just a teen walking home from the snack store. GZ made a horrid set of choices that night. But I do not believe he is an evil man. I believe he was trying to protect his little neighborhood and was out of line. He should have been arrested for manslaughter that first night.

But all of this hatred and outrage, calling him a cold blooded brutal killer is out of line too, imo. IF there were 8 previous burglaries where the perps were thought to be black teens, then he was thinking he was on the right track. That does not make him a Klansmen. He was wrong to follow the kid, agreed. But once he did, and that was not ILLEGAL for him to do, but once he did, what if TM did join in a struggle? What if they were fighting over the gun once TM saw it in his waistband?

As for the racial profiling question--It is strange because most of my black friends are 100% behind racially profiling at the airport. They think that Middle Eastern looking travelers SHOULD be pulled out of line and searched because that is who has been blowing up our planes. So I think it is a little hypocritical for them to wonder why a watchman might be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 inch black teen in a hoodie that night. They cannot ignore the fact that the african amercan teens are committing violent crimes at 8 times the number of other teens. Until that stops, there will be some level of racial profiling.

I think common sense should have told him that even if some black teenagers are criminals not all of them commit criminal acts all of the time and the police don't have the resources to chase down every single black teenager who is doing nothing wrong at the time.

 

[OneLove]

In other words, you and everyone else here has no idea who threw the first blow?

I don't NEED to know who might have thrown a blow, if there even were actually blows thrown. This is because we know that TM did not drag GZ forcibly all the way from GZ's car to the back of the house before getting shot. GZ followed/ stalked/ whatever vocabulary you want to use, GZ is the one who pursued with a handgun a person who had not even been observed committing a crime. Remember that walking in the rain, with WHATEVER expression on his face, was not a crime.

GZ is lucky HE didn't end up shot with TM having justifiable cause for shooting HIM dead.

 

[katydid23]

Pardon, but being all about ethics and fairness, you might want to ask your attorney family and friends what they think about you serving jury duty with a defendant OR plaintiff that wears their shorts showing from beneath their pants, given what you have said in print here at Websleuths. :what:

Do you really think defendant or a plaintiff is going to appear in court with their undies up over their waistbands? I highly doubt that.

 

[csziggy]

Could anyone tell what type of shoes Zimmerman had on in the video at the police station?

I can't tell - maybe tennis shoes?

 

[flourish]

That means to me his future was supposed to have no limits.Fly with the angels Trayvon.

I have not caught up yet...still reading page one or two and trying not to vomit at the blatant victim-blaming going on...my goodness some folks act as though they were never 15 years old and if they were they were perfect angels beyond any reproach.

I LOVE this photo. What a loss for the family, friends, and the entire world. The world is now a darker place with Trayvon no longer in it. What a shame.

 

[csziggy]

3 clicks...like loading a clip maybe?

Would one very nice poster please direct me to the clearest audio available, please?

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call1.wav

My clip out of that recording of the clearest of the three clicks:
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/307click.wav

Here's the clip of the other set that does not have GZ talking over it:
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/241click1.wav

 

[Dr.Fessel]

3 clicks...like loading a clip maybe?

Would one very nice poster please direct me to the clearest audio available, please?

This is a clear one. I am listening to it with earphones on too but not sure if it makes any difference.

I hear running footsteps at 2:47 and 3:09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL72w4xiTVU&feature=youtu.be

 

[Donjeta]

Do you really think defendant or a plaintiff is going to appear in court with their undies up over their waistbands? I highly doubt that.

There might be photos in evidence.

 

[vlpate]

No, GZ determined he acted in self defense, the homocide detective decided he did not.

This was explained by SPD the day after the homicide officer's report was leaked.

"A reporter stated that based on the description of the incident on the report, that the officer on scene wished to have Mr. Zimmerman arrested and charged with the “Uniform Crime Code” listed on
the report. That is not accurate." http://www.sanfordfl.gov/press_releases/Release22.pdf

<snipped>

 

[songline]

RBBM.

Actually we do in fact know that Zimmerman used deadly force as Trayvon is dead and was already dead when police arrived on scene.

MOO

Snce we do not know why it all happend we do not know that
GZ used deadly force.
He may have indeed been defending himself.

WE DONT KNOW YET!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If you do not read the manual it is up to interpretation. However, if you read the manual you will see there is no "on duty", no obligation to do anything other than call in suspicious behavior. That is it. No 24/7, no patrol, just be aware of your surroundings and report problems of a criminal nature. Not trash in the road, kids playing ball in the street, etc.

The manual is very clear, there could never be a misunderstanding if you attended the meeting by LE or read the manual. jmo

So in your opinion GZ would not be considered on duty 24/7 ? And if he called the city to complain about trash in the roadway, it would be as a private citizen and not as a watch man?

 

[TorisMom003]

I can't tell - maybe tennis shoes?

In this clip you can see Zimmerman's shoes. They are brown and do not have laces on them. I would say they are either work boots or just boots. To me they appear to be suede leather.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsLBVaCnPis"]Escort.avi - YouTube[/ame]

 

[csziggy]

It was not the sound of a magazine being loaded. It sounded like he was patting himself on the leg or something. It was very rhythmic.

That was one of my theories - maybe nervous tapping with keys or something?

I just can't tell!

 

[TonyGatto]

True, and I agree. But let's say you did leave your vehicle. And maybe you thought you were protecting your neighborhood by keeping an eye on him while waiting for LE.

I think there is kind of a catch 22 going on here. We see so many cases here with missing victims or people killed in their homes. And we all wish that someone in their neighborhood had kept their eyes open and watched for anything suspicious. IF Trayvon had been an armed robber, then GZ would be a hero right now. But he wasn't, he was just a teen walking home from the snack store. GZ made a horrid set of choices that night. But I do not believe he is an evil man. I believe he was trying to protect his little neighborhood and was out of line. He should have been arrested for manslaughter that first night.

But all of this hatred and outrage, calling him a cold blooded brutal killer is out of line too, imo. IF there were 8 previous burglaries where the perps were thought to be black teens, then he was thinking he was on the right track. That does not make him a Klansmen. He was wrong to follow the kid, agreed. But once he did, and that was not ILLEGAL for him to do, but once he did, what if TM did join in a struggle? What if they were fighting over the gun once TM saw it in his waistband?

As for the racial profiling question--It is strange because most of my black friends are 100% behind racially profiling at the airport. They think that Middle Eastern looking travelers SHOULD be pulled out of line and searched because that is who has been blowing up our planes. So I think it is a little hypocritical for them to wonder why a watchman might be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 inch black teen in a hoodie that night. They cannot ignore the fact that the african amercan teens are committing violent crimes at 8 times the number of other teens. Until that stops, there will be some level of racial profiling.

So when you see a white kid walk into a suburban high school do you think to yourself -- I wonder if he is going to start shooting? Because, you know, white teens are the ones who generally are responsible for the mass shootings at schools, such as Columbine.

 

[OneLove]

Can ANYONE explain how "getting smart and testy" can cause a person to be shot dead? Well, outside of Ku Klux Klan territory where being "uppity" was considered justifiable grounds?