FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[Concerned Papa]

http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/307click.wav

12:33 PM
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/139swishing.wav
www.woodswell.com

12:33 PM
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/209alarm.wav
www.woodswell.com

Fixed it.............

Thanks, here's why it got my attention. I finally isolated what I think is TM's residence and where he was headed.

I finished this post this morning and was just waiting for this place to settle down some.

_________________________________________________________________

In trying to sort my way through this case, I realized that although I knew from several sources where Trayvon was at when “Captain” George called 911, I wasn’t sure where he was going other than home. To me, at least, it seems important to establish where he was going, particularly when the circumstances surrounding the final parts of his path of travel and subsequent murder are the subject of such great debate.

Where was he trying to go, at the 2:08 mark of the 911 call, when he started running with “Captain” George in hot pursuit?

Oddly enough, we may have our answer in a video hosted by the right Reverend Al Sharpton. MSNBC did an interview with Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father, where they walked through the development retracing his final steps.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php

At the 00:52 mark of this video, Tracy Martin is near the clubhouse and says this:

“The easiest path to get home from there is if Trayvon came straight down here, walked down this sidewalk, and then down the back sidewalk.

After walking the street and retracing Trayvon’s path of travel, Mr. Martin walked down this “back sidewalk” and described the positioning and location of his son’s body. From that point at the 1:42 mark of the video, he said this:

“It wasn’t even a football field’s length from the back door, about 70 yards at best.”

210 feet to the back door? Since I knew where Mr. Martin was standing when he said that, with Google Earth that’s pretty much all I needed to know:

I guess a case could be made that I don’t know which of the 2 residences down that sidewalk at 210 feet is actually the one, but I’m gonna go with the one on the left. Mr. Martin kept making reference to the back door and it seems to me if he meant the one on the right, Trayvon would have gone down the street instead of the sidewalk to the front door, since it would have been a shorter route.

Either way, Trayvon Martin was just trying to go home.

 

[Concerned Papa]

http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/307click.wav

12:33 PM
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/139swishing.wav
www.woodswell.com

12:33 PM
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/209alarm.wav
www.woodswell.com

Fixed it.............

Thanks, here's why it got my attention. I finally isolated what I think is TM's residence and where he was headed.

I finished this post this morning and was just waiting for this place to settle down some.

_________________________________________________________________

In trying to sort my way through this case, I realized that although I knew from several sources where Trayvon was at when “Captain” George called 911, I wasn’t sure where he was going other than home. To me, at least, it seems important to establish where he was going, particularly when the circumstances surrounding the final parts of his path of travel and subsequent murder are the subject of such great debate.

Where was he trying to go, at the 2:08 mark of the 911 call, when he started running with “Captain” George in hot pursuit?

Oddly enough, we may have our answer in a video hosted by the right Reverend Al Sharpton. MSNBC did an interview with Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father, where they walked through the development retracing his final steps.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php

At the 00:52 mark of this video, Tracy Martin is near the clubhouse and says this:

“The easiest path to get home from there is if Trayvon came straight down here, walked down this sidewalk, and then down the back sidewalk.

After walking the street and retracing Trayvon’s path of travel, Mr. Martin walked down this “back sidewalk” and described the positioning and location of his son’s body. From that point at the 1:42 mark of the video, he said this:

“It wasn’t even a football field’s length from the back door, about 70 yards at best.”

210 feet to the back door? Since I knew where Mr. Martin was standing when he said that, with Google Earth that’s pretty much all I needed to know:

I guess a case could be made that I don’t know which of the 2 residences down that sidewalk at 210 feet is actually the one, but I’m gonna go with the one on the left. Mr. Martin kept making reference to the back door and it seems to me if he meant the one on the right, Trayvon would have gone down the street instead of the sidewalk to the front door, since it would have been a shorter route.

Either way, Trayvon Martin was just trying to go home.

 

[OneLove]

When a person defends oneself by shooting someone to death, they have defended with DEADLY force. It's really pretty simple.

 

[Bee Happy]

I do wonder if the people defending GZ would be if it were their child killed. I certainly wouldn't. I would want a COMPLETE investigation, which may mean arresting him, and going to trial. Sit back and just say, "oh..okay." Not a chance.

 

[Bee Happy]

Can ANYONE explain how "getting smart and testy" can cause a person to be shot dead? Well, outside of Ku Klux Klan territory where being "uppity" was considered justifiable grounds?

I guess you have to know your place? :waitasec:

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Can ANYONE explain how "getting smart and testy" can cause a person to be shot dead? Well, outside of Ku Klux Klan territory where being "uppity" was considered justifiable grounds?

Where is "getting smart and testy" coming from?

 

[cityslick]

I don't NEED to know who might have thrown a blow, if there even were actually blows thrown. This is because we know that TM did not drag GZ forcibly all the way from GZ's car to the back of the house before getting shot. GZ followed/ stalked/ whatever vocabulary you want to use, GZ is the one who pursued with a handgun a person who had not even been observed committing a crime. Remember that walking in the rain, with WHATEVER expression on his face, was not a crime.

GZ is lucky HE didn't end up shot with TM having justifiable cause for shooting HIM dead.

The phrase 'pursued with a handgun' implies to me he went chasing after him, gun drawn. I'm not so sure that's been established as fact yet.

If the gun was in the holster, who's to say TM even knew he had a gun when GZ first approached him?

 

[dsntslp]

http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/307click.wav

12:33 PM
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/139swishing.wav
www.woodswell.com

12:33 PM
http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/209alarm.wav
www.woodswell.com

Fixed it.............

Thank you and CSZiggy as well.
Sounds like keyboard clicks to me...

 

[TonyGatto]

Snce we do not know why it all happend we do not know that
GZ used deadly force.
He may have indeed been defending himself.

WE DONT KNOW YET!

Whether he is a cold blooded killer, guilty of murder, or someone who was one hundred percent justified becuse he was defending himself -- HE USED DEADLY FORCE. He used force -- the gun. A man is dead. That is usnig deadly force. This is not an argument about facts in the case or the law -- now we're arguing about the English language!!!!!

 

[claudicici]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/...that-Black-Men-Commit-More-Crime-than-Whites-
Best article I have read regarding the issues.I do not believe for one minute that blacks actually commit more crime than whites.
And Katydid23 as for all your black friends that welcome racial profiling in airports because they are biased against Middle Easterners I would like for you to let them speak for themselves otherwise I find that very hard to believe as well.

 

[csziggy]

I know you aren't asking me but I just listened to the tape and to me it sounds like the dispatcher is hitting keys on his keyboard. Perhaps the enter key three times in the row or something like that. It does not sound like it is something that is coming from Zimmerman's end of the conversation though.

MOO

Oh - good possibility! Thanks! :seeya:

 

[OneLove]

Where is "getting smart and testy" coming from?

[ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7743368]Originally Posted by songline[/ame]<br />
Me too, I would have stayed i my car with doors locked. <br />
But we do NOT know that GZ used any deadly force. <br />
We do know that something did happen and a boy is dead.<br />
<u>That is all we really know.</u><br />
<br />
Just as you can imagine that maybe GZ used deadly force.<br />
I can also imagine that maybe TM got smart and testy and caused this.<br />
But do I know for sure? ... No I don

 

[JBounds]

After much thought I've come to the conclusion that both seemed to overreact about the whole situation. Unfortunately with Trayvon dead. It appears to be a case of Zimmerman exceeding his authority/responsibities as a Neighorhood Watch member triggering an overreaction by Martin, creating a situation that got out of control in a matter of seconds. Yet there are still some unanswered questions.

And if supposedly Zimmerman was stalking(which I don't believe and the full 911 audio doesn't lead me to believe that)why didn't Trayvon call 911 or his girlfriend?

Also if it has not been posted I can post a link to the Police report.

 

[TorisMom003]

The phrase 'pursued with a handgun' implies to me he went chasing after him, gun drawn. I'm not so sure that's been established as fact yet.

If the gun was in the holster, who's to say TM even knew he had a gun when GZ first approached him?

Zimmerman pursued Trayvon. Zimmerman had a handgun on his person at the time. Therefor Zimmerman pursued Trayvon with a handgun. The shooting would not have happened if Zimmerman had pursued Trayvon without a handgun.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

So when you see a white kid walk into a suburban high school do you think to yourself -- I wonder if he is going to start shooting? Because, you know, white teens are the ones who generally are responsible for the mass shootings at schools, such as Columbine.

Yep, sometimes I do. I worked in the public school system for 15 years. And I did have a few white kids that made me very nervous. One of them did actually get arrested for having a 'death list' on his FB.

 

[jjenny]

I do wonder if the people defending GZ would be if it were their child killed. I certainly wouldn't. I would want a COMPLETE investigation, which may mean arresting him, and going to trial. Sit back and just say, "oh..okay." Not a chance.

No, people wouldn't be defending GZ if that was their child killed. Maybe that's why we don't let relatives to be judge and jury.

 

[LambChop]

True, and I agree. But let's say you did leave your vehicle. And maybe you thought you were protecting your neighborhood by keeping an eye on him while waiting for LE.

I think there is kind of a catch 22 going on here. We see so many cases here with missing victims or people killed in their homes. And we all wish that someone in their neighborhood had kept their eyes open and watched for anything suspicious. IF Trayvon had been an armed robber, then GZ would be a hero right now. But he wasn't, he was just a teen walking home from the snack store. GZ made a horrid set of choices that night. But I do not believe he is an evil man. I believe he was trying to protect his little neighborhood and was out of line. He should have been arrested for manslaughter that first night.

But all of this hatred and outrage, calling him a cold blooded brutal killer is out of line too, imo. IF there were 8 previous burglaries where the perps were thought to be black teens, then he was thinking he was on the right track. That does not make him a Klansmen. He was wrong to follow the kid, agreed. But once he did, and that was not ILLEGAL for him to do, but once he did, what if TM did join in a struggle? What if they were fighting over the gun once TM saw it in his waistband?

As for the racial profiling question--It is strange because most of my black friends are 100% behind racially profiling at the airport. They think that Middle Eastern looking travelers SHOULD be pulled out of line and searched because that is who has been blowing up our planes. So I think it is a little hypocritical for them to wonder why a watchman might be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 inch black teen in a hoodie that night. They cannot ignore the fact that the african amercan teens are committing violent crimes at 8 times the number of other teens. Until that stops, there will be some level of racial profiling.

The minute GZ made that call to the dispatcher it became a police matter. GZ had no proof of any crime, no proof TM was up to no good, no proof he did not live there or whether he was visiting there, just acted on a whim. It is up to LE to do their job. If the gun had gone off in a struggle and the bullet hit and killed the 13 year old someone else would have died. This is why LE tells you to stay where you are. There was no threat of imminent danger, no one screaming, yelling for help, nothing. GZ created his own crime scene by not listening. This was never a situation of life or death at the time GZ called it in. Had he left LE do their job they would have either caught up with TM or TM would have made it home safely and LE may never have found him. In which case it would have been resolved peacefully and isn't that what we all want? GZ did not use his head. Why would he follow? He told LE TM was headed toward the back gate. What was the worst that could have happened? He'd get away and no one would have been hurt.

GZ claims no one helped me but they did what they were told. They called 911. Had their tried to interfer they could have been lying face down in the grass because now they were the aggressor. Think of it that way folks. You think you are being a good guy chasing after someone who steals a purse, grab them and they turn and shoot you and yell to LE.....I feared for my life.

Chasing is LE's job....they're good at it. Let them do their job. It's your civic duty. jmo

 

[Emeralgem]

I have not caught up yet...still reading page one or two and trying not to vomit at the blatant victim-blaming going on...my goodness some folks act as though they were never 15 years old and if they were they were perfect angels beyond any reproach.

I LOVE this photo. What a loss for the family, friends, and the entire world. The world is now a darker place with Trayvon no longer in it. What a shame.

Thank you for posting the picture...As I see it from what I have seen posted some here seem to view the world as now being a "LIGHTER" place with Trayvon no longer in it..IMHO..To that I say... What a shame.. JMHO

 

[OneLove]

The phrase 'pursued with a handgun' implies to me he went chasing after him, gun drawn. I'm not so sure that's been established as fact yet.

If the gun was in the holster, who's to say TM even knew he had a gun when GZ first approached him?

Again, it's simple. He had a handgun in his possession. He pursued him. He pursued him WITH a handgun.

He did NOT choose to leave his handgun locked in his vehicle.

He pursued him WITH a handgun.

 

[Bee Happy]

Question: If someone is following/stalking you, and you are afraid for your life, do you have the right to use deadly force? If so, does that person have the right to use deadly force against you? Such a sticky law.

I was approached by a sexual predator the other day. Crazy things went through my head. I kept thinking, if I attack him first because he's harassing me and grabbing me, he could shoot me dead. Then say, "oh..I was just asking her the time and she went nuts!"

*sigh*