FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[flourish]

Dispatcher may have been instructed to use that phrase as it also covers the department's a$$, should there be a law suit.

Also, just because a person has the right to do something, doesn't mean it's a good idea!!!!

Why call the police for their assistance if you're not going to be willing to accept that assistance? IMHO, calling the police for assistance essentially creates an agreement where you, the seeker of help, will be willing to accept the help you seek!!!!!

 

[Adrienne37]

Personally I would have never left my vehicle to begin with. Police had been notified and were on the way. The dispatcher was told what direction the "suspect" was going. It is not my job to follow anyone, it is not my job to decide who does or does not belong in the neighborhood that I live in and it most certainly is not my job to decide to use deadly force against someone when I could have avoided the situation entirely.

MOO

Pretty much what I got, except they were a bit more succint, not being doctors and all, they just said that they were not going to lose a patient to a closed head injury, have someone start convlusing or just die 20 minutes after they left and then be sued out of existance, they would transport, period if they had a story of someone hitting their head on concrete and saw any actual evidence of it.

Thank you!!!! This is exactly what I have been saying for the last 4 or 5 days. There is no way at all that the police or anyone for that matter is going to assume any liability whatsoever if this man's head had been slammed into the sidewalk to any degree whatsoever without taking him to be cleared by a doctor. It's just not going to happen and now we hear Junior stating that his brother was barely conscious, worrying about picking his head off the sidewalk because he was 1 step away from having to wear diapers and be spoon fed for the rest of his life. There just ain't no way in heck that's going to happen in this day and age.



~jmo~

 

[vlpate]

Wow.

TM did not live there. He could not have possibly been behind the recent burglaries in THIS PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. He was walking down the street. Even if he was "casing" the joint, as far as I understand the word, casing involves looking, which isn't a crime.

I'm continually incredulous.

This particular rash of burglaries actually started in the summer of 2011, IIRC - August, I believe.

 

[katydid23]

Excuse me... BUT.. BLACKS (as you refer to them) are not the only race of people who carry guns, use violence or jack cars....JMHO...

Of course they are not. And yes, I call 'them' blacks because my kids are both half black and that is what they call themselves. Neither of them like being called 'african american' for whatever reason.

And of course, blacks are not the only ones doing these crimes. But look at the
life culture that black artist/musicians perpetuate. Imo they are created an image that the black kids are following. And it glamorizes guns and drugs and jacking cars.

And look at the statistics. It is not my imagination that young black males kill and are killed at eight times the national average. As long as they perpetuate the violence in greater numbers there is going to be racial profiling.

 

[Adrienne37]

I didn't call LE but I did notify the front office at one point. So did others and he was searched on a few occasions.

GZ is obviously messed up in the head and should be investigated and probably arrested. But it bothers me greatly that the black activists are not looking more closely and entering in the national dialogue about WHY this suspicion of teens in hoodies exists. They are seeming to blame it all on white people being racists. And that is unfair, imo. Even rev Jackson once said that when he heard footsteps behind him at night he was relieved it was a white man.

There were 900 young black males killed in our nation. Over 800 of them were killed by other blacks. Is that due to racism? It is that level of violence that prompts some people to feel suspicious and afraid when they see black teens in hoodies walking in their neighborhood at night. they imagine, with some logic, that the teens could be packing heat.

Per the mods, we are not supposed to be discussing Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the Black Panthers or anything related them.



~jmo~

 

[Sensei]

I did hear that, and a contusion is nothing more than a bruise. I have the feeling the more evidence comes out, the story will change yet again, GZ's camp should just keep quiet, for when and if this case gets to court they will have allot of explaining to do !!

Yeppers,

Contusion: Another name for a bruise. What is a bruise ? A bruise, or contusion, is caused when blood vessels are damaged or broken as the result of a blow to the skin (be it bumping against something or hitting yourself with a hammer). The raised area of a bump or bruise results from blood leaking from these injured blood vessels into the tissues as well as from the body's response to the injury. A purplish, flat bruise that occurs when blood leaks out into the top layers of skin is referred to as an ecchymosis.

taken from Medterms.com although it is the same definition that is in my medical terminology from college, which is way older than I am going to admit and dog eared, and ratty,

 

[rotterdam]

I still can't clearly hear if he says "c**n", and like I said in a previous post, up until this incident,I haven't heard anyone refer to a black with that term in like 30 years. Its something from my parents generation. I have no idea if GZ uses Urban language,but could this be what he says?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cooffer



cooffer

A man who evokes a certain indescribable feeling of creepiness and douchebag-ity.

Never heard about that word. For the record I heard the word c**n for the first time in the 80's when I lived in Indian River County FL. I remember it succinctly because coworkers were telling a joke that I did not get. And it got explained to me. That was about the same time period when going out after work, looking for a spot to booze and not understanding why we would not go to a bar that one coworker labeled as gay. Which I thought meant happy.

 

[annalia]

Respectfully, this bbm part is where I take issue. GZ has not even been arrested yet. No one is asking him to be sent to death row without a fair trial. This exaggeration isn't helping anyone. imo

BBM

No it isn't, and no one has ever said that, even the family has always said arrest him and let a jury decide.

JMHO

 

[Adrienne37]

Respectfully, this bbm part is where I take issue. GZ has not even been arrested yet. No one is asking him to be sent to death row without a fair trial. This exaggeration isn't helping anyone. imo

Truthfully, right at this moment, it wouldn't bother me a bit to know he would spend the rest of his life on death row for what he did to Trayvon. He made a conscious decision when he stepped outside of that vehicle with a loaded weapon after being told not too. He played God with Trayvon's life so let the state of Florida play God with his.



~jmo~

 

[csziggy]

Agree totally.He was paranoid and overly suspicious. And he was wrong to get out of his car and follow.

I am just trying to put a little objectivity into some of the absolute hatred and prematurity in sending him to death row for being a racist brutal killer.

I think he has issues and was in the wrong. But it bothers me that the black activists are trying to spin this as 'white racists hunting down innocent blacks.' They are ignoring their own part in this thing. As long as they ignore the out of control culture which praises violence and makes young blacks want to carry guns and use violence and jack cars then there is going to be racial profiling.

I think the protestors are more concerned with how badly law enforcement in Sanford and that part of Florida has handled many cases involving blacks in the past. It's not just recent, it has happened over many, many years.

Why is the history of the Sanford Police Department in question?

Sanford PD's officers have suffered a series of public missteps in recent years, [link:http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local...s-overwhelmed-emails-demandi/nLTdJ/|according to local reporters]. In 2006 two private security guards—the son of a Sanford police officer, and a volunteer for the department—[link:http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2006-01-29/news/GUARDS29_1_sanford-ansley-security-guards|killed a black teen with a single gunshot in his back]. Even though they admitted to never identifying themselves, the guards were released without charges. In 2009, after an assailant allegedly attempted to rape a child in her home, the department [link:http://www.wftv.com/news/news/fingerprints-in-attempted-rape-sit-for-days/nJwgz/|was called to task] for sitting on the suspect's fingerprints, delaying identification and pursuit of the attacker.

Perhaps the most significant incident occurred in late 2010: Justin Collison, the son of a Sanford PD lieutenant, sucker-punched a homeless black man outside a bar, and officers on the scene released Collison without charges. He eventually surrendered after video of the incident materialized online. The police chief at the time was ultimately forced into retirement. "Bottom line, we didn't do our job that night," a Police Department representative [link:http://www.wftv.com/news/news/cops-son-accused-of-beating-man-walks-out-of-jail/nKJgK/|told WFTV] of the incident. The TV station [link:http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/state-attorneys-offices-overwhelmed-emails-demandi/nLTdJ/|later learned] that the Sanford patrol sergeant in charge on the night of Collison's assault, Anthony Raimondo, was also the first supervisor on the scene of Trayvon Martin's shooting death.

As a result of these incidents and their initial handling of Martin's death, the Sanford Police Department has been under increased scrutiny. Martin's parents have [link:http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local...-overwhelmed-emails-demandi/nLTdJ/|suggested] they might call for Police Chief Bill Lee to resign.

Much, much more: http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained

 

[vlpate]

Thank you!!!! This is exactly what I have been saying for the last 4 or 5 days. There is no way at all that the police or anyone for that matter is going to assume any liability whatsoever if this man's head had been slammed into the sidewalk to any degree whatsoever without taking him to be cleared by a doctor. It's just not going to happen and now we hear Junior stating that his brother was barely conscious, worrying about picking his head off the sidewalk because he was 1 step away from having to wear diapers and be spoon fed for the rest of his life. There just ain't no way in heck that's going to happen in this day and age.
~jmo~

BEM: His brother was probably being a bit dramatic here. I feel bad for Zimmerman's family too, they didn't ask for this. They are being crucified in the media. Everyone wants to know why they're not talking, and when they do, they're ridiculed. No win.

 

[katydid23]

Wow.

TM did not live there. He could not have possibly been behind the recent burglaries in THIS PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. He was walking down the street. Even if he was "casing" the joint, as far as I understand the word, casing involves looking, which isn't a crime.

I'm continually incredulous.

I WAS REPLYING TO SOMETHING ELSE, and NOT anything about TM. I am incredulous that you jumped to this conclusion. And this is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I have said many times that I believe GZ should have been arrested.

I NEVER said TM WAS casing the place. Looks like you are doing just what some are saying GZ was doing. Jumping to conclusions unfairly.

 

[Sensei]

Thank you!!!! This is exactly what I have been saying for the last 4 or 5 days. There is no way at all that the police or anyone for that matter is going to assume any liability whatsoever if this man's head had been slammed into the sidewalk to any degree whatsoever without taking him to be cleared by a doctor. It's just not going to happen and now we hear Junior stating that his brother was barely conscious, worrying about picking his head off the sidewalk because he was 1 step away from having to wear diapers and be spoon fed for the rest of his life. There just ain't no way in heck that's going to happen in this day and age.



~jmo~

Exactly, and under those conditions a patient cannot just sign a waiver of liability For the same reason that you cannot except a waiver of liability from someone who is on drugs, either legal or illegal, or someone that the medical professional has every reason to believe may have impaired thought processes, it won't hold up in Court and you will be sued if something happens. There is a reason we can't let a patient have pain medication until they have signed the consent to surgery, if they sign under the influence of pain killers then it is not legal.

 

[csziggy]

OMG, HAHAHAHAHAHAH, I DID ask some of our EMT's what they would do if someone told them they had had their head hit against concrete and even that got me some looks like I was nuts....

My husband laughed when he came in and I was watching the video of GZ walking into the SPD. He remembers how unsteady and nauseous **I** was when a horse knocked me down and I hit my head against a concrete wall. AND another time when a horse knocked me down and I hit my head against an oak root.

There is no way I could have stood like that and walked without assistance and my head only got knocked ONCE each time. Both times I did have mild concussions but it took a few days for me to get back feeling capable of dealing with the horses again.

For the record - the oak root did more damage to my head than the concrete wall. It actually crushed the outer bone of my skull slightly. Also, both times, the injury was lower on the skull than any of the video artifacts seen in the video of GZ at SPD.

 

[vlpate]

Agree totally.He was paranoid and overly suspicious. And he was wrong to get out of his car and follow.

I am just trying to put a little objectivity into some of the absolute hatred and prematurity in sending him to death row for being a racist brutal killer.

I think he has issues and was in the wrong. But it bothers me that the black activists are trying to spin this as 'white racists hunting down innocent blacks.' They are ignoring their own part in this thing. As long as they ignore the out of control culture which praises violence and makes young blacks want to carry guns and use violence and jack cars then there is going to be racial profiling.

BEM: Sing it Katy girl! Cops in Chicago are afraid to make arrests in a lot of the neighborhoods that are predominantly AA because if the cop is white, they get the race card thrown half the time. There are many, many cases where LE is accused of racial profiling when it is not the case at all, the perp really did it. But it's a hard one to fight when hundreds and thousands are yelling "racist".

Sometimes one really has no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Exactly, and under those conditions a patient cannot just sign a waiver of liability For the same reason that you cannot except a waiver of liability from someone who is on drugs, either legal or illegal, or someone that the medical professional has every reason to believe may have impaired thought processes, it won't hold up in Court and you will be sued if something happens. There is a reason we can't let a patient have pain medication until they have signed the consent to surgery, if they sign under the influence of pain killers then it is not legal.

I think we have hints Zimmerman's lawyer it really looking at this no treatment thing too. He said Zimmerman asked for medical attention and did not get it.

I have a feeling he is going to go the route: his injury was so bad nothing in his statement can be used against him.

 

[katydid23]

Discussing black on black crime in this context doesn't make sense. Just like black males kill each other a majority of the time, a white person is also more likely to be killed by another white person. So, your argument plays up fears that a) don't really pertain to the situation and b) are unfounded anyway.

JMO :twocents:

Imo, the black on black crime rate is relevant. Rev Jackson said " Black males are being HUNTED." and he was implying that white racists were to blame. And that is not the case at all. Look at the statistics. They are not unfounded. Black males are eight times as likely to die in a violent manner and are responsible for the violence 90% of the time. My son is half black. He is well aware of this fact himself.

 

[flourish]

I think the problem was that there were not a lot of teens outside walking around in hoodies or not. So he sees someone walking and he has never seen him before so he is going to check him out. Again, he is in his mind, a neighborhood watchman, so in his feeble mind, he is doing what he is supposed to do. I do not agree with his actions at all. I think he should have been arrested.

But to blame him for being suspicious of black teens is kind of unfair, imo. And my kids are both half black. But I am not going to pretend that there is no reason to be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 black kid walking at night in the neighborhood. There is a prominent and out of control culture which makes it seem cool to burglarize and jack cars and carry guns. And until these gangs are under control the people are going to be 'suspicious' of teens in hoodies.

The "at night" part bothers me. This is a little after 7 pm, not sometime after midnight. It had not been dark that long, correct? It also isn't as if Trayvon had been someone that was going to break into a condo that he would have done so knowing that the vast majority of the condo community would still be up and wide awake.

MOO

But in our neighborhood most of the recent burglaries have been in the afternoon and early evening. People break in while the families are most likely to be away from home. And the perps often case the areas during the early evevning so they will not look suspicious.

Wow.

TM did not live there. He could not have possibly been behind the recent burglaries in THIS PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. He was walking down the street. Even if he was "casing" the joint, as far as I understand the word, casing involves looking, which isn't a crime.

I'm continually incredulous.

I WAS REPLYING TO SOMETHING ELSE, and NOT anything about TM. I am incredulous that you jumped to this conclusion. And this is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I have said many times that I believe GZ should have been arrested.

I NEVER said TM WAS casing the place. Looks like you are doing just what some are saying GZ was doing. Jumping to conclusions unfairly.

Here's the last several posts so any confusion on any part might be cleared?

 

[Emeralgem]

BEM: His brother was probably being a bit dramatic here. I feel bad for Zimmerman's family too, they didn't ask for this. They are being crucified in the media. Everyone wants to know why they're not talking, and when they do, they're ridiculed. No win.

Personally I would prefer to hear from GZ himself however, it isn't just the media crucifying GZ's family... My understanding is GZ's own lawyer is ridiculing GZ brother..JMHO//

 

[HiHater]

Probably the same facts we all had at the time IMO Unless it can be proven TM did not confront and attack GZ first he was within the law.TM's own GF says TM speaks the first words which means to me he started the confrontation,he had to have come up on GZ to ask him why was he following him.IF TM started the fight which is what GZ is stating then TM made the mistake of attacking an armed man.JMO

So I can chase you, and get in your face, but if you SAY anything to me, you're the aggressor?

Example...