FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[mikeysmommom]

LE needs to hasten this procedure so that this whole country doesn't blow up in rage.

I would think a grand jury could be convened in an emergency situation, so that this doesn't turn into extreme violence.

I fully do understand there's an old history of LE not reacting to violence against Blacks in the US, including the horrific story of Emmett Till, but this is a different day and age and I guess I'm still smarting from the mainstream media's refusal to cover the Christian/Newsome murders. Those crimes were so horrific that you can't even google that house where they occurred - Google has removed that property.

I just want the truth to come out, whatever the truth is, before the streets erupt in violence.

None of us - NONE OF US - know what happened that night. Until we do it would be nice to have patience to wait and hear the outcome without further bloodshed.

I agree 200%.

 

[HiHater]

I am very impressed with the way they present themselves, such reserve. You can hear and see the pain and grief but they are not angry or attempting to incite others, just the opposite. They just want justice for their dear son.

Exactly. They haven't convicted him, they just want an arrest!

 

[SuziQ]

What if the Grand Jury decides GZ was in the right,and backs it up with evidence then what?What if no heads roll over this?What if GZ was being attacked would anyone believe it?

So what if GZ was being attacked. GZ pursued a kid who had no idea whether GZ was a Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy. Don't we teach our kids to fight for their lives if they are accosted by a stranger? We know at minimum that GZ got out of his car with a loaded weapon and hunted this kid down.

Personally I think the reason Trayvon didn't run is because he had a gun drawn on him.

 

[rossva]

IIRC - LE couldn't use the phone because Martin had a lock code on it. LE couldn't check the phone for outgoing calls, incoming calls or contacts.

They would not have needed a warrant, Trayvon was not being investigated for a crime---at least he should not have been. The phone could have been used to make a notification, just like his wallet would have been.

Even IF they needed a warrant, this happened Sunday night. Are you trying to say that first thing Monday morning they could not have gotten one?

ETA: Her parents have not said no to a grand jury. They said NO to Sanford PD and the general public.

 

[curl_in_progress]

Did his dad hear a gunshot?Does not seem like he was far enough away
Not to hear the gunshot.If my son was out of the house and someone was shot in my gated community and he did not come home I sure as heck would have been trying to find out what happened.

As far as I know, Tracy Martin hasn't spoken about that in any of his interviews, so I don't know. And I agree with you. I would have been trying to figure out what happened as well. But maybe everyone in the house where he was staying was wrapped up in the all star game. Sanford PD was probably out of that complex in 15 minutes based on the little that they have done to investigate this crime, so there was probably not enough time for Tracy Martin to even realize something had happened out there.

I can only speculate and this is just my opinion.

 

[JeannaT]

Seems like NYPD should have been prepared for this rally...

I agree. They do appear completely prepared - most of the people in the video are just milling around, kind of uninvolved and the police are there with a large presence.

They're prepared to deal with a violent protest. At this point they seem to completely outnumber any protesters.

 

[gitana1]

This just beeped across my TV. Sanford City Commissioners just voted for a finding of "no confidence" in the police chief resulting from this case. The City Manager is considering asking for the chief's resignation.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/tensions-rise-rallies-expected-continue-seeking-ju/nLYmF/

Good. I hope he does ask for his resignation. The police chief made a most disgusting comment to me, insinuating that Trayvon was some who instigated his own murder.

IMO Race is playing a huge part in the response to this shooting!Gathering groups ,Calling for jobs,playing on the fears of rioting breaking out in the streets seems to be due to racial tensions brewing.A lot of people here who live in the area seem to fear riots and tension rising.If any injustices were done with a grand jury in a few weeks it will hear the facts and make a decision. I have seen it written here that if this was a white kid killed by an African American man he would have been on death row.How does the white race cause a Hispanic man to get away with killing an African American Teen?

The white race doesn't cause a Hispanic (half, by the way) man to get away with killing a black teenager. But racism in general does.

They couldn't access the phone from "day one", due to not having a warrant, and I think the parents have been quite clear that this girl will only speak to this lawyer, no one else.

I'm not sure why you believe she would have no problem appearing before a grand jury. Her parents have basically said no.

Her parents said she wouldn't appear before a grand jury? And she'll only talk to Trayvon's family's lawyer? Why do you say that? It sounds like you are insinuating that this girl is hiding something or otherwise lying. Can you provide a link?

What if the Grand Jury decides GZ was in the right,and backs it up with evidence then what?What if no heads roll over this?What if GZ was being attacked would anyone believe it?

To me, it defies logic based on the facts and the witness statements. A scared, 17 year old kid is being followed by a large stranger, at night. He communicates his fear to his girlfriend. He tries to get away. He thinks he has escaped the scary man when the man reappears. Trayvon is shot minutes later. Two witnesses hear no sounds of a fight, just the sounds of a kid whimpering and calling for help and then a man standing over the kid's body.

The man claims he was attacked. But the victim has no history of criminal activity, criminal complaints or aggressive behavior of any kind. He is known to be a gentle, soft-spoken kid.

The killer, however, does have a history or violence. He attacked a police officer and his charges were only dismissed after he underwent a diversion program. His ex girlfriend tried to get a restraining order against him citing violence against her on his part, on multiple occasions spanning a few years.

Some residents also claim this killer was overly aggressive in his self-appointed policing of the neighborhood. He has called the police 46 times since January. Most of the calls were about suspicious black people, including children playing the street.

He wanted to be a cop and never was, for whatever reason, but now he has a gun, ignores the police dispatcher's admonition to not follow the kid, after saying, "These a$$holes always get away." He used his gun and shot an unarmed child who he outweighed by double.

Further, his statements to the dispatcher defy credibility and thus, coupled with everything else in this case, including that a frightened child is now dead, indicate he was lying and trying to set up a situation that would allow him to justifiably use his gun.

Trayvon was a good kid. The worst that could be said about him is he was suspended for being tardy at school. (If there was anything remotely bad about this kid, in this internet day and age, with FB, etc., it would have come out by now). He was on his way to get tea and candy for the little brother who will never, ever see him again. Yet, we are expected to believe that this unarmed child, saw a large, strange man following him, at night, in a vehicle, and instead of trying to get away, acted suspiciously, acted like he was on drugs, cased houses, advanced unprovoked towards the strange man and reached threateningly into his waistband? For what, the candy? Clearly, none of that is true. The girlfriend can attest to Trayvon's fear and confusion. Zimmerman simply wanted an excuse to use his gun and make sure one more black "" didn't get away. So if these statements defy credibility then the statements that a frightened, stalked 17 year old boy aggressively attacked his pursuer, are doubtful as well.

But let's say he did attack Zimmerman after Zimmerman stalked him and then chased him down? IMO, the law still would not excuse the killer. He had the right to stand his ground and use his weapon during an unprovoked attack upon him. If Trayvon did try to defend himself from a frightening strange man following him, then Trayvon's "attack" would have been provoked and my understanding of the law would not allow Zimmerman to excuse the homicide.

IMO, Zimmerman made a big mistake assuming that a young black person walking at night would not have a virtually spotless record and reputation. That mistake was due to racism, IMO.

And, IMO, the Sanford police also made a big mistake assuming that a young black person shot by a "law abiding" cop wanna be, would not have a virtually spotless record and reputation. That mistake was also due to racism, I believe.

This case is blowing up because Trayvon was a sweetheart with nothing to suggest he would react the way Zimmerman claimed. The woman crying on the 911 call after Trayvon was murdered, stated emphatically that it was a kid's voice she heard, begging for help. Zimmerman, the liar, claimed it was he. The same way he claimed, after being accused of DV, that he was not the aggressor, his girlfriend was. The same way he claimed that an unassuming teen boy on his way home with candy, suddenly and unprovoked, attacked Zimmerman, a man twice his size, who had a gun.

Luckily, most of the nation sees this case for what it is. And hopefully that will lead to certain justice for Trayvon and his family. May God grant that tiny bit of peace for them.

 

[LambChop]

Ok. Here's where I am confused about this, so if anyone can direct me to something I've missed, please do. If TM was shot 70 yards from his fathers home, why didn't anyone from the home hear the commotion going on down the street? Were there sirens from the police cars or ambulance? How many response vehicles would have shown up? LE, Fire, Coronor? Why didn't someone say, "Hey! Is that the kid staying in that unit there with Mr. Martin?" Or why didn't anyone from the Martin home know about all of the commotion going on down the street? Did the little brother not think it odd that Trayvon hadn't made it back from the store? Did he look out and see all of the cars and people coming and going? I just don't understand how all of this was going on so close to TM's house and no one from the home bothered to come down and check it out. I'd like to understand this because I have trouble understanding that. TIA!

It may not be unusual to here sirens in that neighborhood, police, fire department, etc. Mr. Martin could have heard them but ignored them not realizing they were that close. When TM did not come home it may have occurred to him that he heard the sirens earlier and that may be why he called LE to see if his son had been arrested. Not everyone runs out the door when they hear sirens and from the looks of the condos Mr. Martin's place may have been one street over and his view was probably blocked to what was happening. Right in front of my house, I'd be looking, yes, but a street over from me, no. It's just a guess.

 

[curl_in_progress]

IIRC - LE couldn't use the phone because Martin had a lock code on it. LE couldn't check the phone for outgoing calls, incoming calls or contacts.

Locked cell phones can be used to dial 911. They could have traced the number. I am 100% convinced that if they REALLY wanted to know the name of the dead young man in their morgue, they could have found out. And furthermore, they could have left the phone on and waited for someone to call Trayvon. I'm sure his father tried to reach him at some point and we now know he had a girlfriend who he spoke to for over 400 minutes that day. So I'm pretty sure SOMEONE tried to call Trayvon after he was killed.

The Sanford PD did not care.

MOO

 

[pkz]

So what if GZ was being attacked. GZ pursued a kid who had no idea whether GZ was a Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy. Don't we teach our kids to fight for their lives if they are accosted by a stranger? We know at minimum that GZ got out of his car with a loaded weapon and hunted this kid down.

Personally I think the reason Trayvon didn't run is because he had a gun drawn on him.

BBM That is an incredible statement and true I am sure.

 

[mikeysmommom]

I find this to be extremely remote. Would anyone believe it? NO. This is a case of cold-blooded murder. There is too much evidence to back it up, even with all the screw-ups from LE.

I know how you feel because I feel the same way about the girlfriend just coming out weeks later stating she was on the phone.She was on the phone but no way can she know what happened she was not there.Threats of violence by groups can not change the facts of what happened.We do not have enough FACTS as of yet IMO.

 

[CathyinTexas]

They would not have needed a warrant, Trayvon was not being investigated for a crime---at least he should not have been. The phone could have been used to make a notification, just like his wallet would have been.

Even IF they needed a warrant, this happened Sunday night. Are you trying to say that first thing Monday morning they could not have gotten one?

ETA: Her parents have not said no to a grand jury. They said NO to Sanford PD and the general public.

Can anyone say no to a grand jury if summoned? I assumed if subpoened you would have to show up.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I can kind of agree with that, but then I also see the law as giving victims a fighting chance.

I think the law is a necessary evil...and by nothing wrong with the law, I more so mean that this case isn't the best one to spark the debate (though it should be had). George Zimmerman was not being attacked.

He may have been attacked. GZ had injuries and one witness reported seeing Trayvon on top of GZ attacking him.

 

[JeannaT]

So what if GZ was being attacked. GZ pursued a kid who had no idea whether GZ was a Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy. Don't we teach our kids to fight for their lives if they are accosted by a stranger? We know at minimum that GZ got out of his car with a loaded weapon and hunted this kid down.

Personally I think the reason Trayvon didn't run is because he had a gun drawn on him.

No, I didn't. If my kids were in a condominium complex, and being followed by some guy in a very public place, and the guy said what are you doing here, my boys would have said what they were doing. "My stepmom lives here and I'm staying at her house". They would probably arrive at the house with tales of the a*hole who confronted them, and that would be that. My kids HAVE been confronted by neighborhood busybodies, and they have never attacked the person confronting them.

I fully believe GZ was a neighborhood nosy guy, and Tray attacked him. That's what I believe based on my own experience with having teenage boys and neighborhood watch.

I will say this one caveat, my neighborhood is white and my kids are white. So that may make some difference. On the other hand, Tray was a light black skinned man, and GZ had virtually the same exact skin color although he was black/hispanic mixed race.

 

[HiHater]

IIRC - LE couldn't use the phone because Martin had a lock code on it. LE couldn't check the phone for outgoing calls, incoming calls or contacts.

Trayvon's father said he was calling the phone. You do not need a lock code to answer a phone. Especially not an iPhone.

 

[LambChop]

Good. I hope he does ask for his resignation. The police chief made a most disgusting comment to me, insinuating that Trayvon was some who instigated his own murder.



The white race doesn't cause a Hispanic (half, by the way) man to get away with killing a black teenager. But racism in general does.



Her parents said she wouldn't appear before a grand jury? And she'll only talk to Trayvon's family's lawyer? Why do you say that? It sounds like you are insinuating that this girl is hiding something or otherwise lying. Can you provide a link?



To me, it defies logic based on the facts and the witness statements. A scared, 17 year old kid is being followed by a large stranger, at night. He communicates his fear to his girlfriend. He tries to get away. He thinks he has escaped the scary man when the man appears. Trayvon is shot minutes later. Two witnesses hear no sounds of a fight, just the sounds of a kid whimpering and calling for help and then a man standing over the kid's body.

The man claims he was attacked. But the victim has no history or criminal activity, criminal complaints or aggressive behavior of any kind. He is known to be a gentle, soft-spoken kid.

The killer, however, does have a history or violence. He attacked a police officer and his charges were only dismissed after he underwent a diversion program. His ex girlfriend tried to get a restraining order against him citing violence against her one multiple occasions spanning a few years.

Some residents also claim this killer was overly aggressive in his self-appointed policing of the neighborhood. He has called the police 46 times since January. Most of the calls were about suspicious black people, including children playing the street.

He wanted to be a cop and never was, for whatever reason, but now he has a gun, ignores the police dispatcher's admonition to not follow the kid, after saying, "These "a$$holes always get away." He used his gun and shot an unarmed child who he outweighed by double.

Further, his statements to the dispatcher defy credibility and thus, coupled with everything else in this case, including that a frightened child is now dead, indicate he was lying and trying to set up a situation that would allow him to justifiably use his gun.

Trayvon was a good kid. The worst that could be said about him is he was suspended for being tardy at school. (If there was anything remotely bad about this kid, in this internet day and age, with FB, etc., it would have come out by now). He was on his way to get tea and candy for the little brother who will never, ever see him again. Yet, we are expected to believe that this unarmed child, saw a large, strange man following him, at night, in a vehicle, acted suspiciously, acted like he was on drugs, cased houses, advanced unprovoked towards the strange man and reached threateningly into his waistband? For what, the candy? Clearly, none of that is true. The girlfriend can attest to Trayvon's fear and confusion. Zimmerman simply wanted an excuse to use his gun and make sure this black didn't get away. So if these statements defy credibility then the statements that a frightened, stalked 17 year old boy aggressively attacked his pursuer, are doubtful as well.

But let's say he did attack Zimmerman after Zimmerman stalked him and then chased him down? IMO, the law still would not excuse the killer. He had the right to stand his ground and use his weapon during an unprovoked attack upon him. If Trayvon did try to defend himself from a frightening stranger man following him, then Trayvon's "attack" would have been provoked and my understanding of the law would not allow Zimmerman to excuse the homicide.

IMO, Zimmerman made a big mistake assuming that a young black person walking at night would not have a virtually spotless record and reputation. That mistake was due to racism, IMO.

And, IMO, the Sanford police also made a big mistake assuming that a young black person shot by a "law abiding" cop wanna be, would not have a virtually spotless record and reputation. That mistake was also due to racism, I believe.

This case is blowing up because Trayvon was a sweetheart with nothing to suggest he would react the way Zimmerman claimed. The woman crying on the 911 call after Trayvon was murdered, stated emphatically that it was a kid's voice she heard, begging for help. Zimmerman, the liar, claimed it was he. The same way he claimed, after being accused of DV, that he was not the aggressor, his girlfriend was. The same way he claimed that an unassuming teen boy on his way home with candy, suddenly and unprovoked, attacked Zimmerman, a man twice his size, who had a gun.

Luckily, most of the nation sees this case for what it is. And hopefully that will lead to certain justice for Trayvon and his family. May God grant that tiny bit of peace for them.

And may it be done in a peaceful and orderly manner. Excellent post. Thanks

 

[Ada]

I'm watching a live feed of the march and rally in New York for Trayvon. Things are getting tense.

http://www.ustream.tv/timcast#utm_campaign=ustreamsocials&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=timcast

Thank you! I wish I could be there.

 

[HiHater]

No, I didn't. If my kids were in a condominium complex, and being followed by some guy in a very public place, and the guy said what are you doing here, my boys would have said what they were doing. "My stepmom lives here and I'm staying at her house". They would probably arrive at the house with tales of the a*hole who confronted them, and that would be that. My kids HAVE been confronted by neighborhood busybodies, and they have never attacked the person confronting them.

I fully believe GZ was a neighborhood nosy guy, and Tray attacked him. That's what I believe based on my own experience with having teenage boys and neighborhood watch.

I will say this one caveat, my neighborhood is white and my kids are white. So that may make some difference. On the other hand, Tray was a light black skinned man, and GZ had virtually the same exact skin color although he was black/hispanic mixed race.

What makes a neighborhood white?

Same type of language that fed into this situation.

 

[Velouria]

I know how you feel because I feel the same way about the girlfriend just coming out weeks later stating she was on the phone.She was on the phone but no way can she know what happened she was not there.Threats of violence by groups can not change the facts of what happened.We do not have enough FACTS as of yet IMO.

She was on the phone with him up to the point that GZ confronted him and asked TM what he was doing there. You don't think that's relevant?

Was a 16 year-old supposed to contact Sanford Police herself and demand they take her statement?

 

[rossva]

But they had EVERY reason to believe he was SOMEWHERE out there - in a neghborhood he was unfamilar with. I'm sorry, but if my 17 year old was visiting in that situation I would at least drive around the neighbor hood looking for him, and sure as heck, if there was a commotion a mere 70 yards from my house I would have at least checked it out.

By the way, the people on the 911 tapes wouldn't go out of their house PRIOR to police arriving; it was during the process of the 911 calls they wouldn't go outside. Watch what little video (I am trying to find links from http://www.cfnews13.com/ now but have to run out)) there is of the scene that night and there are some views of civilians standing around police cars and IIRC crime scene tape.

Most of the people on the 911 tape wouldn't even go outside. Why would Trayvon's family have done so? They had no reason to believe it was him out there. Also, we don't know that his father was home, do we?