FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

[SuziQ]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html?ref=mostpopular

(snip)
Benjamin Crump, the Martin family’s attorney, filed a public records lawsuit last week seeking the 911 recordings for the night of the shooting. Crump said people with access to the tapes told him Zimmerman made a comment about Martin’s race during the call and said he had no intention of letting the youth get away because, “they always get away.”

 

[SoBeCzar]

That was sarcasm (posted on a blog) not something from bylaws.

I see. I knew that sounded wrong.

 

[Velouria]

This brings to mind the cop-wanna-bees who are so dangerous. Makes me wonder if he's already been turned down when applying for an LE position.

Frankly, the comments about Tray being dangerous or a are unfounded. We have seen NOTHING to indicate that Tray did anything but walk down the street. I'll believe what's on the 911 call when I hear it, and until then I'm chalking GZ's injuries up to what he deserved when he confronted Tray against the advice of the 911 operator.

If he had stayed in his car like they told him, everyone would still be alive right now.

BBM

Thank you!

Since when is it self-defense to go out of one's way confront an unarmed individual for merely walking down the street, shooting them when they dare to resist or question? GZ had no legal authority to detain, even within the bounds of this gated community.

I'm hoping that the SA is gifted with more reasoning ability than the Sanford Police Dept appears to have. Their "logic" involving the applicable laws truly escapes me.

 

[daisy7]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html?ref=mostpopular

(snip)
Benjamin Crump, the Martin family’s attorney, filed a public records lawsuit last week seeking the 911 recordings for the night of the shooting. Crump said people with access to the tapes told him Zimmerman made a comment about Martin’s race during the call and said he had no intention of letting the youth get away because, “they always get away.”

Oh, my. WHEN are we gonna get the calls??!! If LE had nothing to hide, they would release the darn calls!

 

[nursebeeme]

jjenny I completely understand what you're saying, but I think this becomes more confusing all the time.

Neither of these men are passifists. Each is looking for a fight, from what I can tell from the information available. It was a tragedy that they met each other.

Statistically - it also seems unlikely that Trayvon would have survived to middle age.

Trayvon was a victim. A child victim. And he could have lived to a ripe old age if he hadn't met this guy on his way to get skittles and snacks:moo:

 

[JeannaT]

Trayvon was a victim. A child victim. And he could have lived to a ripe old age if he hadn't met this guy on his way to get skittles and snacks:moo:

We don't know that. We don't know that he was a victim - he may very well have attacked GZ.

I'm still waiting to hear what he was suspended for, which we may never know, but it may shed some light on what happened that night.

 

[Salem]

Zimmerman is Captain of a neighborhood watch? Why the heck is he even carrying a gun? Florida guns laws must be pretty lax?

Salem

 

[Reader]

Zimmerman is Captain of a neighborhood watch? Why the heck is he even carrying a gun? Florida guns laws must be pretty lax?

Salem

The Fl. legislature in their infinite wisdom recently, I think this last session, passed a law that allows anyone with a concealed weapon permit to carry the weapon on the street and even in the workplace, and to use it if they feel 'threatened'.

This may be why the local police has not filed charges, although I fail to see how GZ being the aggressor and starting the confrontation would pass the smell test of being 'threatened' by a kid carrying candy and tea.

 

[Reader]

<modsnip>

I agree...whatever happened in his school has nothing to do with this incident and certainly provides no excuse for his killing by a man who, against advice from LE, got out of his vehicle and started the confrontation. There are no statistics, whatever they show about a general population, which would provide an excuse for this particular killing of an unarmed child either.

 

[Salem]

We don't know that. We don't know that he was a victim - he may very well have attacked GZ.

I'm still waiting to hear what he was suspended for, which we may never know, but it may shed some light on what happened that night.

At this point, he is a victim. It appears that MSM is telling us that GZ acted against the advice of LE and confronted the teenager. And now the teen has died. That makes him a victim for this thread. Until we get something different from either LE or MSM, we will treat him like a victim.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Velouria]

Orlando Watch Shooting Probe Reveals Questionable Police Conduct
By MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC) and SENI TIENABESO ORLANDO, Fla., March 13, 2012

ABC News has uncovered questionable police conduct in the investigation of the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a white neighborhood watch captain in Florida, including the alleged "correction" of at least one eyewitness' account.
<snip>

Read full article at link:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborho...s-questionable/story?id=15907136#.T1-n7PWDmSo

But after the shooting, a source inside the police department told ABC News that a narcotics detective and not a homicide detective first approached Zimmerman. The detective pepppered Zimmerman with questions, the source said, rather than allow Zimmerman to tell his story. Questions can lead a witness, the source said.
Another officer corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.
The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.

And for those wondering about Trayvon's suspension:

Trayvon Martin had no arrest record or disciplinary action for violence as a student in North Miami's Krop High School.

 

[tlcya]

I found this at the end of that article:


Despite these charges, Zimmerman was working as a neighborhood watch “commander” apparently with permission to shoot and kill “suspicious” people. Sanford Police say they are not hiding the 911 tape, but say they cannot release it because it is part of an “ongoing investigation,” but also say the tape justifies the murder.
Never heard of anyone having permission to shoot and kill suspicious persons. This does not sound right.

I think the permission to shoot to kill suspicious people sentence was sacrasm on the part of the reporter writing the article, and not factual information as to any actual license to kill.

 

[angelmom]

jjenny I completely understand what you're saying, but I think this becomes more confusing all the time.

Neither of these men are passifists. Each is looking for a fight, from what I can tell from the information available. It was a tragedy that they met each other.

Statistically - it also seems unlikely that Trayvon would have survived to middle age.

What statistics are these? We have heard not one thing to indicate that Tray is at risk. Are you telling me that every kid who gets suspended in HS will probably be gunned down in a life of crime before he hits 35? Because right now, that's all we know about Tray, other than that he was unarmed.

Where is the evidence that Tray was looking for a fight? We have heard not one thing to indicate that he has a hot temper or was in trouble for fighting.

We don't know that. We don't know that he was a victim - he may very well have attacked GZ.

I'm still waiting to hear what he was suspended for, which we may never know, but it may shed some light on what happened that night.

He may have fought back, but even GZ never said that Tray attacked him or started it. Tray is a victim. FGS, GZ was carrying a semi-automatic weapon to patrol a suburban neighborhood! That right there is a HUGE red flag.

 

[MicciStella]

I just hope that is not going to end up as coverup from LE...

I deeply hope for justice

Micci

 

[jjenny]

It's starting to look a little shady to me. Why would police officer correct a witness who believed it was the teenager screaming for help and not GZ? At that time police were supposed to collect statements from witnesses and correcting the witness seems like very poor investigative practices. How did officer know who was providing accurate information? Seems like it was decided to be "self-defense" right there on the spot and then whatever might have contradicted that idea was made to fit.

"The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborho...-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136

 

[daisy7]

The Fl. legislature in their infinite wisdom recently, I think this last session, passed a law that allows anyone with a concealed weapon permit to carry the weapon on the street and even in the workplace, and to use it if they feel 'threatened'.

This may be why the local police has not filed charges, although I fail to see how GZ being the aggressor and starting the confrontation would pass the smell test of being 'threatened' by a kid carrying candy and tea.

There was a new law passed last year or the year before, which allows people with concealed gun permits to keep guns in their cars in places that otherwise would have disallowed them (i.e., city parks through local statues or businesses through their own rules). I've looked for a link and can't find one (sorry!), but I remember all the debate about it when it happened.

Here is the FL law about using deadly force:

Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

A cool head and even temper can keep handgun carriers out of trouble. You should never carry a gun into a situation where you might get angry.

(snip)

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It's starting to look a little shady to me. Why would police officer correct a witness who believed it was the teenager screaming for help and not GZ? At that time police were supposed to collect statements from witnesses and correcting the witness seems like very poor investigative practices. How did officer know who was providing accurate information? Seems like it was decided to be "self-defense" right there on the spot and then whatever might have contradicted that idea was made to fit.

"The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborho...-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136

It's definitely strange for a cop to say that to the witness. If the police arrived after the shooting, how in the world could one of them correct this witness's statement?

 

[MicciStella]

And the officer showing up on scene first basically gave GZ a free pass with not taking his statement but more or less made the case with asking questions...
Even we here know better than to do so...

And I think we really need the calls because when there is the gun shot heard, which is mentioned in the article, there would be really clear to hear GZ yelling for help... If he did... And correcting a witness?.... Wow... Are they trying to fabricate a case here?....

Praying for justice...

Micci

 

[jjenny]

I think it's certain somebody yelled for help. But unclear which one -GZ or the boy. One witness believed it was the boy who yelled for help. For whatever reason, it appears the police officer took it upon himself to correct this witness, so I presume that ended up in the police report. At this point they would need voice analysis if any screams for help are heard on tape.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think it's certain somebody yelled for help. But unclear which one -GZ or the boy. One witness believed it was the boy who yelled for help. For whatever reason, it appears the police officer took it upon himself to correct this witness, so I presume that ended up in the police report. At this point they would need voice analysis if any screams for help are heard on tape.

If the police officer put in his/her report that they "corrected" a witness statement, he or she is going to be in some big trouble.