FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

[csziggy]

BBM
Looks like Sanford PD is using Florida statue 776.013(3) Justifiable use of force.

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Now if GZ was doing something illegal(assault?)when he confronted Trayvon, this statue would not apply.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

Wouldn't that hold true for Tray? After all, he had a legal right to be where he was. If GZ assaulted Tray first, wouldn't the law be inclined to go his way? The problem is that GZ survived and Tray didn't so we will never know Tray's side of the story.

I want to know what the forensics tell us about evidence of a fight on Tray's body. I'm suspicious of what GZ says and wonder about the indications of a fight on his person. One of the stories said there was blood on the back of GZ's shirt - whose blood? How did it get there?

I could see GZ rolling around, roughing himself up once he realized he needed a reason to have shot this young man. If there are no marks at all on Tray, that would be a good reason to doubt GZ's claims. How could a smaller man do all that damage to the much larger GZ without leaving some evidence on the smaller person? MOO, of course.

 

[jjenny]

Based on what witness said, it's extremely unlikely that GZ rolled around after shooting the teenager. Witness saw him standing over the teenager, not rolling around.

 

[JeannaT]

Wouldn't that hold true for Tray? After all, he had a legal right to be where he was. If GZ assaulted Tray first, wouldn't the law be inclined to go his way? The problem is that GZ survived and Tray didn't so we will never know Tray's side of the story.

I want to know what the forensics tell us about evidence of a fight on Tray's body. I'm suspicious of what GZ says and wonder about the indications of a fight on his person. One of the stories said there was blood on the back of GZ's shirt - whose blood? How did it get there?

I could see GZ rolling around, roughing himself up once he realized he needed a reason to have shot this young man. If there are no marks at all on Tray, that would be a good reason to doubt GZ's claims. How could a smaller man do all that damage to the much larger GZ without leaving some evidence on the smaller person? MOO, of course.

This does hinge on who punched first, I completely agree. Since it has turned out there was at least one witness to this altercation, I think we can put to rest the idea that GZ injured himself on purpose after shooting Trayvon.

BTW, all the media articles I've read state GZ had blood coming out of his head and nose, but that would probably trickle down to his shirt. I haven't seen an article about blood on his shirt.

I hope they did good forensics on Trayvon's body before his burial to determine how many injuries he sustained before being shot vs. GZ.

If there are no marks on Tray, that would actually be great reason to believe GZ. That it wasn't really a fight, it was an assault and GZ had to defend himself with his gun.

But we don't know any of these answers yet, we're still just kind of discussing the questions that should be asked.

 

[JeannaT]

"Our entire family is deeply sorry for the loss of Trayvon," Robert Zimmerman's letter says. "We pray for the Martin family daily. We also pray that the community will grieve together and not be divided by more unwarranted hate."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ing-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1160767.story

Interesting commentary by GZ's dad. The longer the details of the altercation remain hidden from public view, the more passions will be inflamed.

Doesn't LE see that? Surely their investigation is complete. This isn't dying down, it's escalating. It seems time for the details - whatever they are - to be made public so frustrations don't just simmer and then explode in a violent boil.

 

[Lovejac]

IMO, the statute could just as easily be applied to the actions of Trayvon. If he perceived GZ as an attacker, then he also had a right to self defense.

respectfully snipped by me and bolded by me.

THIS! THIS!

Trayvon is a 17 yo boy, being followed by someone in a car and then confronted by this same person!

GZ was older AND outweighed Trayvon!

 

[LolaMoon08]

Interesting commentary by GZ's dad. The longer the details of the altercation remain hidden from public view, the more passions will be inflamed.

Doesn't LE see that? Surely their investigation is complete. This isn't dying down, it's escalating. It seems time for the details - whatever they are - to be made public so frustrations don't just simmer and then explode in a violent boil.

I don't see how they can't see it? I don't usually question LE unless there is a really good reason for it and I am really questioning LE in this case. At least let the family listen to the tapes and they can make a statement to the public if everything is on the up and up! The investigation is done. The family deserves answers.

 

[Lovejac]

"Our entire family is deeply sorry for the loss of Trayvon," Robert Zimmerman's letter says. "We pray for the Martin family daily. We also pray that the community will grieve together and not be divided by more unwarranted hate."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ing-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1160767.story

Well, it looks like the Zimmerman family finally got a PR person. Good for them.

I don't ever condone death threats and I am sorry they have received them. That being said, this statement has not changed my feelings.

I'm glad that a black neighbor would trust her life to GZ and I'm glad that the Zimmermans have black people in their family. <insert sarcasm>

I don't give a hoot what color they were. Trayvon was a 17 year old boy who was followed and confronted by a 28 year old man, after being advised not to. That's all I need to know.

 

[jjenny]

And we still haven't got neither 911 calls nor autopsy results (despite sunshine laws). I am very curious if they can tell what position the teenager was in when he was shot, direction of the shot, and whether teenager had any bruising, etc, from this fight.

 

[daisy7]

I don't know that autopsy reports are usually made public, even with our Sunshine laws. But, WTH are the 911 calls??!! Has there been anything reported about an upcoming court hearing from what was filed by his family about releasing the calls?

 

[Lovejac]

I don't know that autopsy reports are usually made public, even with our Sunshine laws. But, WTH are the 911 calls??!! Has there been anything reported about an upcoming court hearing from what was filed by his family about releasing the calls?

Nothing yet, daisy. Very odd isn't?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-fa...rmed-teen-shot-neighborhood/story?id=15888961

Local police declined to comment on the case at this time although they did provide ABC News with a copy of the police report. The 911 tapes, say police, will be released next week.

The date of the article is March 9th

 

[daisy7]

Nothing yet, daisy. Very odd isn't?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-fa...rmed-teen-shot-neighborhood/story?id=15888961



The date of the article is March 9th

Thanks, LJ!

That's the first I've heard anything about the 911 calls being released. Hope it's true - but why wait til next week?

 

[daisy7]

"Our entire family is deeply sorry for the loss of Trayvon," Robert Zimmerman's letter says. "We pray for the Martin family daily. We also pray that the community will grieve together and not be divided by more unwarranted hate."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ing-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1160767.story

from the link:

But it does challenge one basic assumption: that Zimmerman got out of his SUV to confront Trayvon after calling police to report a suspicious person.

Getting out of his car = confrontation to me. IMO.

 

[Lovejac]

Thanks, LJ!

That's the first I've heard anything about the 911 calls be released. Hope it's true - but why wait til next week?

I read a different article (can't find it now of course :waitasec and LE said it wouldn't be released until after their investigation was over.

The case was sent to the SA yesterday, so as far as I'm concerned LE's part of the investigation is over.

Release the tapes!!

 

[daisy7]

I read a different article (can't find it now of course :waitasec and LE said it wouldn't be released until after their investigation was over.

The case was sent to the SA yesterday, so as far as I'm concerned LE's part of the investigation is over.

Release the tapes!!

Yep, I've read several articles that said that and still no tapes

 

[daisy7]

They heard the desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.

Trayvon Martin, 17, died Feb. 26 in a dark pathway some 20 minutes after a neighborhood watch volunteer called police saying he thought a young stranger looked suspicious. It was raining, and the volunteer thought the kid in the hoodie walked too slow and peeked in windows.

Three witnesses contacted by The Miami Herald say they saw or heard the moments before and after the Miami Gardens teenager&#8217;s killing. All three said they heard the last howl for help from a despondent boy, and believe the sequence of sounds shatters the notion that Trayvon was killed in self-defense.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446/trayvon-martin-case-give-do-public.html#storylink=cpy

 

[jjenny]

They heard the desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.

Trayvon Martin, 17, died Feb. 26 in a dark pathway some 20 minutes after a neighborhood watch volunteer called police saying he thought a young stranger looked suspicious. It was raining, and the volunteer thought the kid in the hoodie walked too slow and peeked in windows.

Three witnesses contacted by The Miami Herald say they saw or heard the moments before and after the Miami Gardens teenager&#8217;s killing. All three said they heard the last howl for help from a despondent boy, and believe the sequence of sounds shatters the notion that Trayvon was killed in self-defense.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446/trayvon-martin-case-give-do-public.html#storylink=cpy

So now we have two articles about what the boy with a dog saw. Both say he saw a man on the ground. One article says it was GZ because of red shirt. This one implies it was the teenager. The woman witness quoted in this article is contradicted by police that say she told them she didn't want to get involved.

"Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern on Thursday issued a statement disputing Cutcher's version of events, calling her statements to WFTV "inconsistent with her sworn testimony to police.""

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...tin-witness-tv-report-20120315,0,559932.story

 

[Lovejac]

They heard the desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.

Trayvon Martin, 17, died Feb. 26 in a dark pathway some 20 minutes after a neighborhood watch volunteer called police saying he thought a young stranger looked suspicious. It was raining, and the volunteer thought the kid in the hoodie walked too slow and peeked in windows.

Three witnesses contacted by The Miami Herald say they saw or heard the moments before and after the Miami Gardens teenager’s killing. All three said they heard the last howl for help from a despondent boy, and believe the sequence of sounds shatters the notion that Trayvon was killed in self-defense.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446/trayvon-martin-case-give-do-public.html#storylink=cpy

The clock is ticking. You can only cover up if EVERYONE agrees to the cover up.

These witnesses have no personal stake in this case, they have no reason to not tell the truth.

GZ is the only one to benefit from the lies.

Keep talking witnesses. Help right this wrong.

 

[daisy7]

So now we have two articles about what the boy with a dog saw. Both say he saw a man on the ground. One article says it was GZ because of red shirt. This one implies it was the teenager. The woman witness quoted in this article is contradicted by police that say she told them she didn't want to get involved.

"Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Morgenstern on Thursday issued a statement disputing Cutcher's version of events, calling her statements to WFTV "inconsistent with her sworn testimony to police.""

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...tin-witness-tv-report-20120315,0,559932.story

Lee released a statement Thursday disputing Cutcher’s account, saying it differed from what she originally told police, which she angrily denies.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...martin-case-give-do-public.html#storylink=cpy

What is sworn testimony to police? I've never heard of sworn statements except in court.

 

[JeannaT]

They heard the desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.

Trayvon Martin, 17, died Feb. 26 in a dark pathway some 20 minutes after a neighborhood watch volunteer called police saying he thought a young stranger looked suspicious. It was raining, and the volunteer thought the kid in the hoodie walked too slow and peeked in windows.

Three witnesses contacted by The Miami Herald say they saw or heard the moments before and after the Miami Gardens teenager&#8217;s killing. All three said they heard the last howl for help from a despondent boy, and believe the sequence of sounds shatters the notion that Trayvon was killed in self-defense.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446/trayvon-martin-case-give-do-public.html#storylink=cpy

Desperate wail of a child? Who would say that? Both men would have male voices, between them WHO would call their verbalizations a "desperate wail of a child"? How confusing. It's totally confusing which of these two men would have a lower or a higher voice. There are NO children's voices between these two men.

It seems to me these commenters opinions have been greatly colored by the very old pictures that the media has been running of Trayvon about 5 or so years ago when he was a child.

 

[jjenny]

The female witness also keeps calling the teenager a "little boy" but this article claims he was 6'3" so he was very tall. I don't think he looks that tall in any of the photos we have seen, though.