FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain

[JeannaT]

The female witness also keeps calling the teenager a "little boy" but this article claims he was 6'3" so he was very tall. I don't think he looks that tall in any of the photos we have seen, though.

I think he only looks that tall in one - the one with the light colored hoodie - because he's preadolescent in the other pictures.

To me, he looks tall and lean in the one recent pic I've seen. Very handsome.

 

[jjenny]

So police claim female witness told them she didn't want to get involved, while the female witness claims she was so eager to talk to them she left them phone messages. Those two things don't jive with each other.

 

[Steely Dan]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/16/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

...Trayvon Martin was returning from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiancee in a gated community around sunset on February 26. A neighborhood watch captain, George Zimmerman, 28, saw the teen and called 911 to report a suspicious man, authorities said.
The 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman not to confront the person, but by the time police arrived, Trayvon Martin lay dead with a gunshot wound in the chest, said Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee. The teenager was carrying a small amount of cash, some candy and an iced tea.

Zimmerman told police he shot the teen in self-defense, authorities said, and he remains free as the state attorney's office investigates the case. Police said they have not charged Zimmerman because there are no grounds to disprove his story of what happened....

I'd really like to hear that 911 call and hear what the guy who shot him had to say about his motive for shooting him.

This is also from the article and very hard to argue with;

...The boy's parents and the family attorney were interviewed Friday by CNN's Soledad O'Brien.
Tracy Martin told CNN that if Trayvon pulled the trigger, "he would have been arrested on the spot."
Benjamin Crump, the Martin family's attorney, said Zimmerman should have been arrested.
"He can make that self-defense argument. But that's in court with the judge and the jury after he's been arrested," he said.
Zimmerman's freedom "doesn't pass the common-sense test," Crump said. He said the police department "passed the buck" to the state attorney's office. He said there have been "other instances like this" involving the department....

BBM

 

[LolaMoon08]

Trayvon was only 17-years-old, so technically, he was still just a child. He was not an adult or a man.

When we see all these cases of missing 17-year-old's, we don't call them a "man" or a "woman" but "boy" or "girl" because our mind's automatically know that they are still just children.

I find it more troubling that people are calling Tray a "man" as if trying to even the playing field between the only man involved in this crime. Zimmerman. Witnesses calling Tray a child are not in any way trying to make this crime look any worse than it is. Can it even get any worse? It's the people who are calling Tray a man that are trying to make the case not look as bad as it is. Tray was not a man. Tray was just a boy.

 

[jjenny]

Trayvon was only 17-years-old, so technically, he was still just a child. He was not an adult or a man.

When we see all these cases of missing 17-year-old's, we don't call them a "man" or a "woman" but "boy" or "girl" because our mind's automatically know that they are still just children.

I find it more troubling that people are calling Tray a "man" as if trying to even the playing field between the only man involved in this crime. Zimmerman. Witnesses calling Tray a child are not in any way trying to make this crime look any worse than it is. Can it even get any worse? It's the people who are calling Tray a man that are trying to make the case not look as bad as it is. Tray was not a man. Tray was just a boy.

The female witness claims she originally saw him face down. He is reportedly 6'3"-I don't know why she would describe him as "little boy." Also, at 17, while legally not an adult, I doubt he would sound as a "little boy" either.

 

[LolaMoon08]

The woman claims she saw him face down. He is reportedly 6'3"-I don't know why she would describe him as "little boy." Also, at 17, while legally not an adult, I doubt he would sound as a "little boy" either.

Because she now knows that he was just a 17-year-old boy? The voice of this 17-year-old boy probably haunts her. Probably moreso because she now knows, which she didn't at the time, that the boy that would lay dead in that yard was 17-year-old Trayvon Martin who was simply walking back from a store where he purchased an ice tea and a bag of skittles for his little brother. Because Trayvon was innocently walking home from the store, she probably sees what we all see in little children. Innocence.

ETA: I believe she is using the word "little" when she should be using the word "innocent." I believe when she talks about a little boy, she is really talking about an innocent boy. Like I said, we all see little children as innocent. That is how I take her saying "little boy." I feel awful for her. No one should ever have to witness what she witnessed.

ETA: even more... I do not believe she is trying to mislead when she says "little boy." I understand what she is saying 100%. He was just an innocent boy.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Reported on CNN today when neighbors came out they saw Zimmerman standing over Trayvon. The commentator said that it was an execution stance. as Trayvon was laying face first with Zimmerman between his legs. When the neighbors saw Zimmerman he had his hands on his head, almost to say "what did I just do?"

 

[tlcya]

Because she now knows that he was just a 17-year-old boy? The voice of this 17-year-old boy probably haunts her. Probably moreso because she now knows, which she didn't at the time, that the boy that would lay dead in that yard was 17-year-old Trayvon Martin who was simply walking back from a store where he purchased an ice tea and a bag of skittles for his little brother. Because Trayvon was innocently walking home from the store, she probably sees what we all see in little children. Innocence.

ETA: I believe she is using the word "little" when she should be using the word "innocent." I believe when she talks about a little boy, she is really talking about an innocent boy. Like I said, we all see little children as innocent. That is how I take her saying "little boy." I feel awful for her. No one should ever have to witness what she witnessed.

To expand on your thought above she may use the words little boy as she now knows his age and that the circumstances around his death are very hinky. She is probably accutely aware that this young man is someone's baby, someonoe's precious "little boy". Her experience with what has come after may well have colored her view and her using the words "little boy" clearly convey her belief that Tray was the victim in this situation.

 

[jjenny]

Reported on CNN today when neighbors came out they saw Zimmerman standing over Trayvon. The commentator said that it was an execution stance. as Trayvon was laying face first with Zimmerman between his legs. When the neighbors saw Zimmerman he had his hands on his head, almost to say "what did I just do?"

This comes from the female witness MC (we have been discussing this for while).

 

[jjenny]

To expand on your thought above she may use the words little boy as she now knows his age and that the circumstances around his death are very hinky. She is probably accutely aware that this young man is someone's baby, someonoe's precious "little boy". Her experience with what has come after may well have colored her view and her using the words "little boy" clearly convey her belief that Tray was the victim in this situation.

I agree. What did she the police after this happened, before she found out the victim was a "little boy?" So I am not sure how reliable that makes her as a witness, and now we have police claiming one thing (she didn't want to get involved) and her claiming the other (she kept calling police but they blew her off).

 

[LolaMoon08]

To expand on your thought above she may use the words little boy as she now knows his age and that the circumstances around his death are very hinky. She is probably accutely aware that this young man is someone's baby, someonoe's precious "little boy". Her experience with what has come after may well have colored her view and her using the words "little boy" clearly convey her belief that Tray was the victim in this situation.

Exactly! There is nothing misleading about her statements. I feel a great deal of sympathy for her. I am glad that she is doing the right thing because so many times people don't do the right thing because they don't want to get involved.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I agree. What did she the police after this happened, before she found out the victim was a "little boy?" So I am not sure how reliable that makes her as a witness, and now we have police claiming one thing (she didn't want to get involved) and her claiming the other (she kept calling police but they blew her off).

Is this the same witness that says when she talked to police that night they "corrected" her when she told them she heard Tray's screams?

 

[jjenny]

Is this the same witness that says when she talked to police that night they "corrected" her when she told them she heard Tray's screams?

I am not sure but I suspect that she is.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I am not sure but I suspect that she is.

I also believe that it is. So, she was talking to police and giving her account of the events as she witnessed them that night and when she told them that she had heard Tray scream, police corrected her... even though they were not there? Doesn't sound like she didn't want to get involved to me? Very much sounds like the police didn't want to get involved with her or her eye witness testimony.

 

[jjenny]

I also believe that it is. So, she was talking to police and giving her account of the events as she witnessed them that night and when she told them that she had heard Tray scream, police corrected her... even though they were not there? Doesn't sound like she didn't want to get involved to me? Very much sounds like the police didn't want to get involved with her or her eye witness testimony.

Police claim what she is telling now is not consistent with what she told police initially.

"On Thursday the police department said witness Mary Cutcher's statement during a TV interview was "inconsistent" with what she told investigators."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...oting-parents-20120316,0,7681336.story?page=1

 

[LolaMoon08]

Police claim what she is telling now is not consistent with what she told police initially.

"On Thursday the police department said witness Mary Cutcher's statement during a TV interview was "inconsistent" with what she told investigators."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...oting-parents-20120316,0,7681336.story?page=1

Do you see the problem with this though? Of course her statements would not be "consitent" since the officer had "corrected" her statement. The other problem is LE can't go from saying her "statements" are inconsistent to she "didn't want to get involved." She was obviously involved enough to give a statement. A statement that a LE officer corrected.

ETA: The statement is "inconsistent" from what LE want to say happened. Thankfully, when MC seen what was going on, she refused to just keep quiet when she could have easily done so.

 

[Velouria]

Originally Posted by jjenny
Police claim what she is telling now is not consistent with what she told police initially.

"On Thursday the police department said witness Mary Cutcher's statement during a TV interview was "inconsistent" with what she told investigators."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...6.story?page=1


The same police who claimed they couldn't release the 911 calls until the investigation had been completed?

 

[Rob774]

Does anyone else not see the dangerous precedent this will set into motion if this guy is not arrested. Basically, it will give the green light to anyone, who has a problem with someone else, approach them, and if confrontation erupts...blow them away. I mean, i can do this right now, knock on the door of an old bully, have words with him, if he takes a swing, whip out my Glock 22 and fire away...self defense!!!

 

[jjenny]

Does anyone else not see the dangerous precedent this will set into motion if this guy is not arrested. Basically, it will give the green light to anyone, who has a problem with someone else, approach them, and if confrontation erupts...blow them away. I mean, i can do this right now, knock on the door of an old bully, have words with him, if he takes a swing, whip out my Glock 22 and fire away...self defense!!!

Welcome to TX. Although I wouldn't go to somebody's house because then if a bully whips out his Glock 22 he'd be legally in the clear.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Welcome to TX. Although I wouldn't go to somebody's house because then if a bully whips out his Glock 22 he'd be legally in the clear.

I don't live in Texas. I live in Florida. Texas can do as they please, but as a Floridian, I refuse to sit back and watch my beautiful State allow someone to get away with murder. Clearly this was murder, imo.