FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[rossva]

it's an lg, service through net10

what kind of phone do you have exactly?

 

[Lovejac]

Less suspicious? Ducking under an awning of an unoccupied building as compared to ducking under the awning of an occupied condo? And pulling up the hoodie only after noticing some one watching you? While he didn't deserve to die, I'd call those activities suspicious.

Ducking under ANYTHING and putting your hoodie up are suspicious............if the sun is shining. It was raining.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

"At shortly before 7:15, George Zimmerman, who volunteered for the development's neighborhood watch, spots Trayvon standing outside the development's clubhouse near the community mailboxes, where the teen had ducked under an awning to get out of the rain. "

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/tra...timeline-leaves-many-unanswered-questions.php

Thank you. This contradicts your statement that he ducked onto a "porch," which to me suggests a private residence, which a clubhouse is not.

So I don't see how this ducking under an awning in a public space to get out of the rain made him look suspicious, as you stated.

 

[rossva]

Now photoshop that pic so the lighting is dusk/early evening, seen from 20 or so yards away, and seen from an angle, as compared to one of an individual who is not wearing a hoodie.

No problem.

 

[rotterdam]

Can Trayvon's family sue Zimmerman for wrongful death, i wonder? Would at least make him explain himself...
Although my ultimate hope is for an arrest..

Not sure. The SYG statute gives the perpetrator immunity from any civil suit. May other Fl self defense statutes do too. This is a lawyer question.

 

[LambChop]

A clubhouse is an unoccupied building now? Our clubhouse, in my gated apartment complex, certain areas are open until 10pm. The laundry room, the pool, and the gym.

ETA: It was only 7:00pm?

And some clubhouses have soda machines in them. But it was raining and he had put his earbuds in to call his gf so I might imagine he was protecting his earbuds from the rain. This is consistent with the conversation he was having with his gf. From GZ's viewpoint he had already decided TM was suspicious but not enough to confront him at the clubhouse. While he had the dispatcher on the phone why didn't he ask TM what he was doing. GZ admits TM was walking towards him. With an officer on the line he had the perfect opportunity to find out if TM lived there and he did nothing except to pursue him.

What is suspicious is that while on the phone with the dispatcher GZ is clearly painting a picture of a suspect for LE. Given the chance to confront TM at the clubhouse (which he could have done) he let it slide, made an attempt to follow TM, was told he did not have to and he agrees by saying okay, then hangs up with the officer who now thinks GZ is in his truck waiting for LE to show up. However GZ isn't doing that but continues his pursuit. The whole thing stinks. jmo

 

[Lovejac]

While pointing out discrepencies in various stories, how about this:


"I figured that they had gone to the movies, because they had said they might"

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20581404,00.html

While visiting his father, Tracey Martin, in the upscale, gated community known as the Retreat at Twin Lakes, Trayvon took a walk in the rain to a nearby store, telling his father he was going for some candy.

Read more: http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/seventeen-year-old-trayvon-martin-shot/#ixzz1q5AjyrH2

I'm not seeing the discrepency.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Now photoshop that pic so the lighting is dusk/early evening, seen from 20 or so yards away, and seen from an angle, as compared to one of an individual who is not wearing a hoodie.

I don't have photoshop and even if I did I would not do that because there is no evidence any of that stuff happened unless you have a link to the angle he was standing and the lighting where he was standing.

 

[LambChop]

Yeah, but we also know that it's been stated that his serious cut to the back of his head didn't require stitches because it was already healing? So when did Zimmerman decide to go to the hospital?

Doctors and hospitals are bound by HIPPA laws and can not releave patient records unless the patient signs a release. GZ's attorney would know that. If GZ were concerned that people did not believe him I think I would have had my attorney release those records. They could be evidence of defensive wounds. jmo

 

[LolaMoon08]

And some clubhouses have soda machines in them. But it was raining and he had put his earbuds in to call his gf so I might imagine he was protecting his earbuds from the rain. This is consistent with the conversation he was having with his gf. From GZ's viewpoint he had already decided TM was suspicious but not enough to confront him at the clubhouse. While he had the dispatcher on the phone why didn't he ask TM what he was doing. GZ admits TM was walking towards him. With an officer on the line he had the perfect opportunity to find out if TM lived there and he did nothing except to pursue him.

What is suspicious is that while on the phone with the dispatcher GZ is clearly painting a picture of a suspect for LE. Given the chance to confront TM at the clubhouse (which he could have done) he let it slide, made an attempt to follow TM, was told he did not have to and he agrees by saying okay, then hangs up with the officer who now thinks GZ is in his truck waiting for LE to show up. However GZ isn't doing that but continues his pursuit. The whole thing stinks. jmo

We also don't even know if this was written in Zimmerman's original statement to police or if it came afterwards? Until we see that original written/recorded statement, I have no idea what Zimmerman is claiming?

 

[Sensei]

Less suspicious? Ducking under an awning of an unoccupied building as compared to ducking under the awning of an occupied condo? And pulling up the hoodie only after noticing some one watching you? While he didn't deserve to die, I'd call those activities suspicious.

And to you they MAY be suspicious, but the fact of the matter is, that I can go outside and do as many suspicious things as I want to, I can burn clothes in my barbeque grill, and I can dig grave sized holes in my yard....I can put on a ski mask in the summer, or long sleeves, and lurk around my neighborhood....but as long as what I am doing is not illegal, then nobody except LE can require that I answer their questions, and if I choose to simply ignore them and leave they can't shoot me....

IMO, JMHO and stuff, All the rhetoric about how TM just MUST have attacked Zimmerman in some manner makes absolutely no sense at all, I think Zimmerman must have been parked in an area that TM path to where he was staying brought him alongside on the sidewalk, or closer to him, and that's where he thought TM was "checking him out" When TM realized he was being followed he attempted to get away, and told his girlfriend that he thought he has lost his follower, and then bam, there he was again. The fact that he asked GZ "why are you following me" leads me to believe that when he realized that Zimmerman was still there or was back again, that Zimmerman was much closer than TM was comfortable with, and the next thing we hear is "What are you doing around here" and common sense tells me (particularly in light of the fact that it is apparent that Zimmerman was thoroughly invested in this chase because A$$&** always get away) that the next thing that happened was that TM turned and attempted to actually get away, and Zimmerman attempted to restrain him in some manner, by grabbing him, and got bopped in the nose, and maybe surprised so much by that that he slipped in wet grass and fell flat on his fanny and smacked the back of his head in the bargain causing an abraison, (I totally discount that there was a cut or gash, because he would have been taken to ER for stitches and CT scan otherwise, and yes, if he was not transported he did have to sign a release for emt's very similar to the release against medical advice, so that he could not at a later date sue them if he did have a subdural hematoma or something and was seriously injured. If he had a "broken" nose, then he would have required extensive medical since a broken nose can result in some very serious medical complications due to swelling in some cases, and he could not have been questioned under those circumstances. This is what my common sense and the little information we have leads me to believe, and it is what I will believe until there is concrete information that refutes it once again IMO, JMHO and stuff.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Doctors and hospitals are bound by HIPPA laws and can not releave patient records unless the patient signs a release. GZ's attorney would know that. If GZ were concerned that people did not believe him I think I would have had my attorney release those records. They could be evidence of defensive wounds. jmo

Yes, but if Zimmerman had injuries this serious, I would think that LE would have taken photographs of them? A broken nose and a serious cut to the head? Even if Zimmerman didn't want his medical records released, they could at least ask LE to release the photographs they took of the evidence... oh wait? :waitasec:

 

[SuziQ]

While pointing out discrepencies in various stories, how about this:


"I figured that they had gone to the movies, because they had said they might"

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20581404,00.html

While visiting his father, Tracey Martin, in the upscale, gated community known as the Retreat at Twin Lakes, Trayvon took a walk in the rain to a nearby store, telling his father he was going for some candy.

Read more: http://blogcritics.org/politics/article/seventeen-year-old-trayvon-martin-shot/#ixzz1q5AjyrH2

Discussing with his dad what he's doing now and what he might do later?

 

[Lovejac]

Yes, but if Zimmerman had injuries this serious, I would think that LE would have taken photographs of them? A broken nose and a serious cut to the head? Even if Zimmerman didn't want his medical records released, they could at least ask LE to release the photographs they took of the evidence... oh wait? :waitasec:

:floorlaugh: Exactly! What photos?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

A narcotics officer was at the scene - he was questioned at the station.


Which homicide case are you referring to?

Again, which homicide case? His injuries are in the initial police report.

Seriously, there is no homicide case I can find under the name George Zimmer. I'd like to read about a witness being coached to change her statement though? Was this on ABC?

The police report that is on SPD's website is listed as a homicide. Look in the upper left hand corner.

 

[Lovejac]

And to you they MAY be suspicious, but the fact of the matter is, that I can go outside and do as many suspicious things as I want to, I can burn clothes in my barbeque grill, and I can dig grave sized holes in my yard....I can put on a ski mask in the summer, or long sleeves, and lurk around my neighborhood....but as long as what I am doing is not illegal, then nobody except LE can require that I answer their questions, and if I choose to simply ignore them and leave they can't shoot me.....

Respectfully snipped by me.

Sensei, you are my kinda neighbor! :rocker:

 

[Sensei]

Yes, but if Zimmerman had injuries this serious, I would think that LE would have taken photographs of them? A broken nose and a serious cut to the head? Even if Zimmerman didn't want his medical records released, they could at least ask LE to release the photographs they took of the evidence... oh wait? :waitasec:

Really, I am suspcious that the injuries were anything more than superficial to beging with because I am an ER nurse, and here were I live, LE brings people in all the time, it seems that in our neck of the woods they have a rule about questioning someone who is spurting blood from a severe gash in the head, (a severe laceration of the scalp is going to bleed until stitched because the scalp is extremely vascular, and usually a CT scan is done to confirm that there are no other injuries from head trauma, like fractured skull or subdural hematoma, along with other tests for concussion and such) or a broken nose that is causing extreme facial swelling and possible interfering with a person being able to breath....they bring them in even in handcuff, and get them treated BEFORE they take them to the station for questioning...

Guess they are just different than Florida PD that way....

 

[LambChop]

It was evening. May be the narcotics detective was the only one on duty and available immediately. Besides suspect they did want to keep good old buddy GZ in jail overnite. This surely must have been the fastest homicide "investigation" that exonerated the known killer, on record. Just amazing.

Well my husband was on call 24 hours if there was more than one homocide for the duty detective to handle another one off duty would be called in. It appears this should have been called into homocide by the responding officers and not called into the narcotics division. But it's just ironic that GZ mentions he thinks the kid is on drugs and acting strangely and a narcotics officer shows up and no sign of homocide. Way too neat a package for me. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. To me by not have a homocide detective investigate they compromised the scene.

It sounds to me as if they were all out of there within the hour. Bet a homocide detective has this case now. jmo

 

[princesspjs]

Less suspicious? Ducking under an awning of an unoccupied building as compared to ducking under the awning of an occupied condo? And pulling up the hoodie only after noticing some one watching you? While he didn't deserve to die, I'd call those activities suspicious.

Absolutely! It was the CLUBHOUSE not an unoccupied unit where he may be seen as a threat to someone if he had looked into a window or something but.... I can't believe you are even saying that it is MORE suspicious to duck under a CLUBHOUSE awning to jump out of the rain and put up his hoodie to protect his head and phone headset from the rain and then step right back out to continue walking home in the rain. Neither of those instances would be even remotely suspicious to me. (ETA - UNLESS he was peeking into windows...which he was NOT) <modsnip>

 

[Dr.Fessel]

The police report that is on SPD's website is listed as a homicide. Look in the upper left hand corner.

Right, any killing of a person by another person is a homicide.