FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[IzzyBlanche]

TM had a phone. If Dad was not home when TM left for the store I imagine TM called his Dad said he was running to the store and he might go to the movies later with his cousin. Why would the father lie? jmo

IDK--I was just pointing out what I thought rossva saw as the discrepancy.

 

[momshrink]

I'm hoping the DOJ looks into his phone records. I would like to know too.

I would also really like to see Zimmerman's original written statement. Not one written a day or two later. One that was written/recorded that night.

I agree. I would also like to see his wife's, father's, and mother's phone records. IMO calls may have been made from those phones for favors.

JMO

 

[annalia]

I'm lost as to why this is important. Maybe it's already answered, but I'm trying to catch up....

In my opinion, it's neither relevant or important, but I believe it originally began with not believing that Trayvon's father really called looking for Trayvon. And not believing that the phone calls wouldn't show if Trayvon's phone was shut down. I may be wrong but I think that's the gist of it.

JMHO

 

[jjenny]

Really? Did you read the whole article or only the paragraph that was cut/pasted to the post? The next paragraph in the article reads:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/17/trayvon-martin-killing-yo_n_1355795.html

Absolutely nothing I said contradicts what is in that paragraph. 13 year old doesn't know who was screaming. He only saw one man on the ground.

 

[LambChop]

I could see GZ grabbing at TM so he would not "get away" and TM turning and swinging at GZ enough to bring them both down if GZ had ahold of the sleeve of TM's shirt. Once down with TM on top I could see GZ panicking because of the gun in his pants and fearful that TM would use it on him. But TM did not have the gun, did not shoot GZ nor did he ever attempt to. Once GZ touched TM it because a self-defense matter for TM, not GZ. I doubt if GZ would every admit he touched TM but history often repeats itself. If GZ once had no fear of shoving a police officer what would stop him from grabbing a kid. If he had problems with domestic violence what would stop him from grabbing or hitting anyone. He has already proven he could not follow a simple direction from LE when he was told he did not have to follow, GZ said okay but disregarded the officers request showing his lack of respect of directions from LE. jmo

 

[jjenny]

I could see GZ grabbing at TM so he would not "get away" and TM turning and swinging at GZ enough to bring them both down if GZ had ahold of the sleeve of TM's shirt. Once down with TM on top I could see GZ panicking because of the gun in his pants and fearful that TM would use it on him. But TM did not have the gun, did not shoot GZ nor did he ever attempt to. Once GZ touched TM it because a self-defense matter for TM, not GZ. I doubt if GZ would every admit he touched TM but history often repeats itself. If GZ once had no fear of shoving a police officer what would stop him from grabbing a kid. If he had problems with domestic violence what would stop him from grabbing or hitting anyone. He has already proven he could not follow a simple direction from LE when he was told he did not have to follow, GZ said okay but disregarded the officers request showing his lack of respect of directions from LE. jmo

Speculating is all well and good, and makes sense, but prosecution will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and how are they going to do that? IF GZ initiated the fight then stand your ground law doesn't cover him (he'd have to attempt to get away first) but how does prosecution prove that?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Not particularly, but if the injuries were superficial and not serious it would be far more difficult to convince me and I am sure many other people that Mr. Zimmerman was in fact seriously afraid for his life, and that his fear was the fear that a reasonable person would feel, enough fear to respond with deadly force....IMO, JMHO and stuff

He wouldn't necessarily have to fear for his life. Trying to prevent great bodily harm would allow the use of deadly force under Florida law.

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

 

[jjenny]

He wouldn't necessarily have to fear for his life. Trying to prevent great bodily harm would allow the use of deadly force under Florida law.


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

And he doesn't have to have serious injuries either.

 

[LambChop]

BEM: What judgment call did a patrol officer make without evidence?

My understanding was that it was determined by the investigating officer that GZ was justified because GZ said it was self defense. There was no homocide detective on the scene. Much of the evidence is gone. No tests were done on GZ. jmo

 

[Sensei]

Regarding Zimmerman's injuries, the NEW claims don't hold water. The initial police report says SFD (an EMT I'm guessing) checked Zimmerman out in the back of a police car. In order to believe that his nose was broken or that the cut required stitches, we would also have to believe that trained first responder was inept, incompetent, or just not doing his/her job.

If he had serious injuries, he would have been transported to the hospital, stabilized, and then questioned.

If it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true. JMO MOO IMO

The broken nose is the one that just floors me....If you have a broken nose, and do not get immediate treatment you could have a crooked nose, you could end up with a deviated septum, or a nose that you can't breathe through for the rest of your life....and if you wait to get it treated, they may have to rebreak it to attempt to set it straight....broken noses are common and some think they are simple and kinda minor, but they can be anything but that, and I do NOT see LE allowing him to go to the station and not the hospital for treatment if he actually had a broken nose, JMHO and stuff

 

[Salem]

What about the other cases where people who walked out after stand your ground was determined with little more than a police report. At least 50 cases. Did the police know them too? Call the law problematic, call the cops inept, but saying just because they knew him they let him go doesn't wash with the statistics.

Hi vlpate - can you link this up please? What other 50 cases? Where are you getting these stats from? Was this reported in MSM? I would very much like to see these stats, especially if the 50 cases are from Florida.

Thanks so much,

Salem

 

[LambChop]

Speculating is all well and good, and makes sense, but prosecution will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and how are they going to do that? IF GZ initiated the fight then stand your ground law doesn't cover him (he'd have to attempt to get away first) but how does prosecution prove that?

This is why when they determined that TM was deceased they needed to call in a homocide detective for a proper investigation. That was not done. Valuable evidence is missing because it was not gathered. jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

And he doesn't have to have serious injuries either.

Correct. You don't have to sustain a certain amount of injuries before your allowed to prevent great bodily harm by using force or even deadly force.

 

[Sensei]

Speculating is all well and good, and makes sense, but prosecution will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and how are they going to do that? IF GZ initiated the fight then stand your ground law doesn't cover him (he'd have to attempt to get away first) but how does prosecution prove that?

the prosecution is not going to have to prove that. Zimmermans Attorney of record at this time is stating that the SYG rule does not apply to him, but that he is going to claim straight affirmative self defense.

He also backed away from the claim that the shooting was justified under Flordia’s controversial “Stand Your Ground” law, saying that the shooting was an act of self-defense: "You have a right to defend yourself. So the next issue [that] is going to come up is, was [Zimmerman] justified in using the amount of force he did?" Sonner added that he had not actually met with his client in person, as he has gone into hiding, apparently out of fear for his life. As he put it:

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/03/george-zimmermans-lawyer-says-his-client-is-not-a-racist.html?mid=rss

 

[jjenny]

Here is abc article that says witness told them Zimmerman was the one screaming for help.

"A witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman told ABC News the same: the pleas for help were Zimmerman's."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...1-tapes-belong/story?id=15994640#.T25pBdkyCSo

 

[songline]

The broken nose is the one that just floors me....If you have a broken nose, and do not get immediate treatment you could have a crooked nose, you could end up with a deviated septum, or a nose that you can't breathe through for the rest of your life....and if you wait to get it treated, they may have to rebreak it to attempt to set it straight....broken noses are common and some think they are simple and kinda minor, but they can be anything but that, and I do NOT see LE allowing him to go to the station and not the hospital for treatment if he actually had a broken nose, JMHO and stuff

REPORT SAID BLOODY NOSE not broken

 

[songline]

here is abc article that says witness told them zimmerman was the one screaming for help.

"a witness who saw martin on top of zimmerman told abc news the same: The pleas for help were zimmerman's."
http://abcnews.go.com/us/trayvon-ma...1-tapes-belong/story?id=15994640#.t25pbdkycso

thank you

 

[vlpate]

First of all, thank you so much for the map...

Doc was right, the 100 yds. Trayvon's father was talking about was from where the incident occurred to Trayvon's house.

<modsnip>

Credit to Lolamoon08 for the photo! The colored lines belong to Lola whose post can be found up-thread, when I find it again I will link.

 

[jjenny]

the prosecution is not going to have to prove that. Zimmermans Attorney of record at this time is stating that the SYG rule does not apply to him, but that he is going to claim straight affirmative self defense.




http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/03/george-zimmermans-lawyer-says-his-client-is-not-a-racist.html?mid=rss

Is this lawyer experienced in these type of cases, because this law clearly doesn't cover only those who are in their homes?

 

[rotterdam]

Yes, but Casey Anthony wasn't arrested either, and she still tried to get her statements to LE thrown out based on Miranda Warning.

Oh my, pls help me out. I though GZ was cuffed and taken to the station but not charged after being questioned by the narcotics detective. Would that not be called an arrest? And released same nite after a warp speed homicide investigation.