FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[LambChop]

BEM: Seems rather odd since I can hear the yelling myself for a full 45 seconds of the second 911 call I added to my previous post.

Different witnesses at the same shooting, one heard something, the other did not - one can't prove there wasn't a fight because one didn't hear or see it.... trees in the forest and all that

The shooting took place at least 3 house down from where the fight took place according to Mary. The shooting happened right off of Mary's back porch and she and her husband said there was only whimpering/pleading that sounded like a child prior to the shooting, no fighting right before the shot was fired. jmo

 

[rossva]

BBM Perhaps Zimmerman thought Martin would have looked in windows had ZIMMERMAN not caught him ducking under the awning. Would you not call that suspicious? You see a person go under an awning, he notices you watching, flips his hoodie up and retreats away. I can 100% see how Zimmerman would interpret that as suspicious.

Absolutely! It was the CLUBHOUSE not an unoccupied unit where he may be seen as a threat to someone if he had looked into a window or something but.... I can't believe you are even saying that it is MORE suspicious to duck under a CLUBHOUSE awning to jump out of the rain and put up his hoodie to protect his head and phone headset from the rain and then step right back out to continue walking home in the rain. Neither of those instances would be even remotely suspicious to me. (ETA - UNLESS he was peeking into windows...which he was NOT) <modsnip>

 

[jjenny]

From memory so it may not be accurate - in several newspaper reports there was a young man who saw part of the altercation and said a man on the ground. I don't know if it was the same young man who was on the 911 call with his sister. Both were described as walking dogs.

I don't have links to any of the articles that quoted the young man. If I remember correctly he was the one who was traumatized because he identified with TM as a young black man.

I am pretty sure it's the same 13 year old boy. He only saw one man on the ground, and I've yet to see anything to suggest he identified TM as the one he saw on the ground. At least one article claimed that the man he saw on the ground was wearing red (which would make him Zimmerman).

 

[vlpate]

Thanks vlpate.

This is for all posters: when you are posting quotes etc from transcripts, please provide the link to the transcript you are referring to.

Just for clarity, there is no transcript of the 911 call, that I am aware of, to link to online. I would love to find one in its entirety though!

I was quoting the actual 911 call by Zimmerman.

 

[jjenny]

The shooting took place at least 3 house down from where the fight took place according to Mary. The shooting happened right off of Mary's back porch and she and her husband said there was only whimpering/pleading that sounded like a child prior to the shooting, no fighting right before the shot was fired. jmo

And on 911 call there is very loud yelling that can be heard, and then a very loud shot. I am going to believe my very own two ears.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Zimmerman witnessed him hiding his face by pulling the hoodie up.

Link?

 

[rossva]

Does the quote say he told his father in person? Didn't Trayvon have a phone? <modsnip>

Do you know what time Tracy Martin left the home? No.

Dad wasn't home that night so TM couldn't have said anything to him.

 

[gitana1]

BEM: Trayvon was 6' and Zimmerman is 5'9".

Zimmerman outweighed Trayvon by almost double.

It's not that I'm laying blame on Mr. Martin but it would be foolish to not recognize that some of his behavior very likely added suspicion to the situation Mr. Zimmerman was confronted with. Does this wash away Mr. Zimmerman's responsibility to conduct himself in a professional manner, no it does not. However given the totality of the situation it does demonstrate how various missteps on both parties fault likely lead to this unfortunate situation...

Again Mr. Martin wasn't some child he was a 17 year old man.

So, do you allow your 17 year old son to smoke, drink? Can he vote? Have sex with a 30 year old woman? Surely, no 17 year old man could be forced to go to school or grounded? And they should be allowed to put on a uniform and fight in a war if they are men, right?

Why did he try to lose GZ? He wasn't being chased when he started running, he was coming toward Zimmerman.


Imagined what?



Bernard Goetz was a vigilante killer. Vigilantes usually don't call the police before they start shooting, nor do cold blooded murderers. So, for me, he doesn't fit either. Both would have just shot him and drive away. Wouldn't you think?

Zimmerman said that the kid noticed him and began to approach. Zimmerman also said he looked suspicious, on drugs and put his hands in his waistband. IMO, Zimmerman is a big, fat liar.

Hopefully, after this, you would rethink such a move. If, that is, one believes Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose and was shot for it.

Heck no! Somewhere in this world is a song from a band that looped my voice as a 19 year old saying, "Screw you dude, shoot me now!" I would much rather fight someone assaulting me and be shot on the street than end up in someone's trunk, repeatedly raped and tortured before I die. In the first example, there is a small chance of survival. In the second, death only after a good bit of torment. You don't allow a stranger to accost you, put your hands on you or approach you, ever, especially when it is night and you are alone.

 

[Talina]

I've seen several posts saying that Trayvon put his hoodie up to hide his face from GZ. Where is that coming from? Has GZ actually said that he thinks that is why Trayvon put his hoodie up?

 

[LambChop]

The gated community had some break ins where the perps got away and they were teenagers.So yes some a******** did get away with robbing in that area.

Yes some teens got away with some material property, I know the feeling had to deal with a couple of breakins myself, once while on vacation but I never had the urge to try and go after them, that is what 911 is for.

Now the HOA is being sued, their insurance rates will suddenly go up and those who had breakins will wish they never heard of GZ and will go out and get that alarm system for their home they should have purchased after the first breakin was reported. It's the times we live in. But GZ's way of handling security clearly does not work because he totally messed up. jmo

 

[rotterdam]

I don't think sleuthing his injuries are bullc***, they are part of what happened - one can't just ignore documented facts and expect one's theory to be taken seriously, IMO.

The problem is there are so few reliable documented facts, including those on the extent of GZ's injuries. The partial police reports are so insufficient. And I do not put much credence in GZ's lawyer statements. His job is to drum up sympathy for his client and knows these hospital "facts" are very difficult to verify .

 

[LambChop]

And on 911 call there is very loud yelling that can be heard, and then a very loud shot. I am going to believe my very own two ears.

I was quoting a woman who was there when TM was shot right outside her kitchen window. Have you watched her interview????

 

[Talina]

Does the quote say he told his father in person? Didn't Trayvon have a phone? <modsnip>

Do you know what time Tracy Martin left the home? No.

BBM

I've not seen that reported by any media source nor seen it said on any of the interviews that the parents have given. Right now, I'd be more inclined to think that is the opinion of the blogger and not based on actual facts that can be sourced. - IMO
<modsnip>
Trayvon wasn't visiting his father in the gated community. His father didn't live there. His father was also a guest there, along with Trayvon.

<modsnip>

 

[vlpate]

The shooting took place at least 3 house down from where the fight took place according to Mary. The shooting happened right off of Mary's back porch and she and her husband said there was only whimpering/pleading that sounded like a child prior to the shooting, no fighting right before the shot was fired. jmo

Quoted from: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call2.wav taken from:http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html

Caller: "I just heard a shot right behind my house"
Caller: "They were wrestling right in back of my porch"
Caller: "The guy was yelling help so I'm not going outside (chuckles)"

Would this be the same husband, I wonder?

 

[i.b.nora]

The blogcritic article is an opinion piece. It is not mainstream media and it cites no sources for its quotations or its 'facts'. So, I am not so sure that quoting anything from that article is worth anything.

 

[LambChop]

BBM Perhaps Zimmerman thought Martin would have looked in windows had ZIMMERMAN not caught him ducking under the awning. Would you not call that suspicious? You see a person go under an awning, he notices you watching, flips his hoodie up and retreats away. I can 100% see how Zimmerman would interpret that as suspicious.

It was the clubhouse.

 

[jjenny]

I was quoting a woman who was there when TM was shot right outside her kitchen window. Have you watched her interview????

Yes, I watched the interview. But again, I am going to believe what I heard on 911 calls because that's actually a record of what was happening.
The loud screams are heard, a loud shot is heard. How does that fit with a scenario of child whimpering?

 

[rossva]

It was a chilly (for central FLORIDA) rainy night. At 7:00 pm February 26, 2012, the weather report stated rain, light rain, and chance of t-storms. Again, I do not know the rules at that particular gated community, but based on the rules of the gated community I live in, the pools, due to insurance problems and lack of life guards, close at dusk, and most certainly at any sign of an electrical storms.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Plus the clubhouse has a pool. What draws the attention of kids these days faster than a pool? He could have been check to see if anyone was in the Clubhouse or if the pool would be open later. Any number of reasons to be at the Clubhouse. The most logical is he called his gf and put his earbuds in and did not want them to get wet. And given what we know, it makes more sense. jmo

 

[rossva]

Its absolutely not relevant to Martin's death. I posted it just to show there are discrepencies in reports on both the Zimmerman point of view and the Martin point of view in the media and reports we have seen so far.

Do we know when this conversation took place and how? By phone maybe? How is this relevant anyways?

 

[i.b.nora]

Awnings are meant to be 'gone under'.