FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

[Emeralgem]

I disagree.
I'd rather nobody stand up for me than have someone that has a track record of dishonesty and hate do it.

He would never stand up for me anyway. So I guess I'll never have that problem.

I learned many moons ago to never ever say...never...JMHO

 

[LolaMoon08]

Have you ever heard that people CAN change????? < mod snip>.

That was 8 years ago.

Yes, people can change? I'm not basing my opinion of Zimmerman only on his past violent tendencies? I am including the 911 transcripts where it was becoming very clear that he was becoming more and more obsessive. His neighbor even said he had "fed up issues."

MOO

 

[dienermom]

Believe it or not...Al Sharpton has a show on MSNBC M-F 6-7pm EST
He has toned down alot....alot...he interviews people that I would have never dreamed, and he is frequent guest on Morning Joe.
He paid his dues, he marched with MLK, and yes, is rather boisterous at times, but he is an activist...the way I look at it? Someone HAS to do it, grateful that some do.

I completely agree that he has toned it down. It is funny that some people want everyone to forget actions in the recent past by GZ, someone actually involved here, but won't do the same for Sharpton, who is at best a very tangential figure in this matter.

 

[gitana1]

Or we could put it another way.....You do not have the right to chase someone down so that you have to shoot them. Maybe that will make sense to some.

I still wonder why the homocide detective felt it was not justified that very night?????? jmo

Same reason most of us don't.

Why is there not outrage over incidents like this? http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station granted the kid didn't die but I don't see this as a major news story. Racism stinks in either direction. Why no public outcry over this?

There is tons of outrage. But, it doesn't become a national issue for two main reasons:
1. As others have said repeatedly, there were arrests and the path to justice has begun in that case.
2. The racist acts of the perps in that case are not supported by institutional racism, especially a hundreds year old history of institutional racism.

Sharpton has a controversial history < mod snip >.

Yeah, he's made some comments I disagree with. His comments 20 years ago during the Crown Heights riots were racist, to me, even though he tried to justify them for years as being out of context. But he didn't start those riots. He just did nothing to quell them and instead marched and chanted "no justice, no peace," in the middle of them, when he should have, as a minister and activist, called for peace.

But that was 20 years ago and he has apologized and changed since then: http://www.jta.org/news/article/201...s-he-made-mistakes-during-crown-heights-riots
And that was the only instance wherein he could be connected to violent protests. In this case, he is doing the opposite of making inciting comments, IMO. He's asking that people conduct themselves in a dignified manner.

That didn't answer my question.
I asked if its ok to advocate for someone you know is lying.

Everybody has civil rights correct? Even white people?

Yes, but white people are the only group in our country that haven't had to fight for their civil rights to begin with.

 

[tlcya]

Nothing we have seen points to it being racial so far.

EXCEPT: JJ, AS,and the Black Panthers telling us it is.

I don't tend to put much stock in what the talking heads and activists have to say about it but from the limited facts we do have access to, I see enough to cause me suspicion that what drew GZ to notice, follow and then eventually struggle with (allegedly) and shoot TM may have been racially motivated so we will have to continue to agree to disagree.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Same reason most of us don't.



There is tons of outrage. But, it doesn't become a national issue for two main reasons:
1. As others have said repeatedly, there were arrests and the path to justice has begun in that case.
2. The racist acts of the perps in that case are not supported by institutional racism, especially a hundreds year old history of institutional racism.



Yeah, he's made some comments I disagree with. His comments 20 years ago during the Crown Heights riots were racist, to me, even though he tried to justify them for years as being out of context. But he didn't start those riots. He just did nothing to quell them and instead marched and chanted "no justice, no peace," in the middle of them, when he should have, as a minister and activist, called for peace.

But that was 20 years ago and he has apologized and changed since then: http://www.jta.org/news/article/201...s-he-made-mistakes-during-crown-heights-riots
And that was the only instance wherein he could be connected to violent protests. In this case, he is doing the opposite of making inciting comments, IMO. He's asking that people conduct themselves in a dignified manner.



Yes, white people are the only group in our country that haven't had to fight for their civil rights to begin with.

Our civil rights are the same no matter color.

 

[LambChop]

AS is an activist in THIS case. So I'd say it's relevant.
His character is relevant.

IMO

It has nothing to do with this case. The case is about what happened not about the family, their lawyers or anyone who speaks up for them. They have lost their child. The worst possible thing that can ever happen to a parent is to lose their child. This forum is about what happened before TM was shot and now what is happening with GZ. Trying to figure out what happened and as the MODs put it as far as we know, unless otherwise told they are both presumed victims.

Activists are political figures are they not??? They work for the good or bad of the system. They have nothing to do with what happened on February 26th. TM story stopped on Feb. 26th. He has no history after that date. GZ's story seems to be still evolving. What Al did 20 years ago or today has nothing to do with TM or why he died. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

On Friday, we will air a special town hall at 8 p.m. ET called "Beyond Trayvon: Race and Justice in America."
Soledad O'Brien will moderate a discussion among family members and friends of Martin and Zimmerman, law enforcement officials, citizen watch organizers, civil rights leaders, pro-gun advocates, legal experts and concerned parents. The conversation will take place before an audience of ordinary citizens who will participate in the questioning.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/opinion/whitaker-in-depth-martin/index.html

This should be interesting.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I don't tend to put much stock in what the talking heads and activists have to say about it but from the limited facts we do have access to, I see enough to cause me suspicion that what drew GZ to notice, follow and then eventually struggle with (allegedly) and shoot TM may have been racially motivated so we will have to continue to agree to disagree.

Ok I get that.

But what they are saying is making a HUGE impact on this country right now.

There are people who are feeding off of this stuff. For instance, the group of kids who stormed the Wal-Greens and tore it up. They were incited by the "activists" and the race speeches.

I wonder, we're those kids charged?
They had great video of all of them running through the doors.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I have a question? Let's just for a moment think about this?

If Zimmerman is never arrested, charged, prosecuted for the death of Trayvon Martin and he was allowed to just go on with his life as he had left off before this happened, would you want him in your neighborhood? Would you feel safe with him having a gun and becoming the Neighborhood Watch Captain of your neighborhood? Would you allow your child to go and pick up some snacks from a store if you knew George Zimmerman was lurking around the neighborhood?

 

[Inabsentia]

If GZ's lawyer's claims are true I wonder why the brothers hadn't spoken in years. If GZ is the warm, honest, caring, helpful person his brother says he is, than why the estrangement? I would want a brother like that in my life.

I suspect George is the black sheep in that family, the son of educated, accomplished, affluent parents he has little higher education, a past filled with violence and skirmishes with the law, under-age drinking, and a sketchy at best employment history. I think I remember hearing that he had to undergo both an anger management program and some sort of alcohol education program. Now this. I wonder if Dad will get tired of GZ's foibles. Moo

 

[LambChop]

Same reason most of us don't.



There is tons of outrage. But, it doesn't become a national issue for two main reasons:
1. As others have said repeatedly, there were arrests and the path to justice has begun in that case.
2. The racist acts of the perps in that case are not supported by institutional racism, especially a hundreds year old history of institutional racism.



Yeah, he's made some comments I disagree with. His comments 20 years ago during the Crown Heights riots were racist, to me, even though he tried to justify them for years as being out of context. But he didn't start those riots. He just did nothing to quell them and instead marched and chanted "no justice, no peace," in the middle of them, when he should have, as a minister and activist, called for peace.

But that was 20 years ago and he has apologized and changed since then: http://www.jta.org/news/article/201...s-he-made-mistakes-during-crown-heights-riots
And that was the only instance wherein he could be connected to violent protests. In this case, he is doing the opposite of making inciting comments, IMO. He's asking that people conduct themselves in a dignified manner.



Yes, but white people are the only group in our country that haven't had to fight for their civil rights to begin with.

BBM: LOL Well that would be because we always had them. Those who control are the ones with all the rights. jmo

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It has nothing to do with this case. The case is about what happened not about the family, their lawyers or anyone who speaks up for them. They have lost their child. The worst possible thing that can ever happen to a parent is to lose their child. This forum is about what happened before TM was shot and now what is happening with GZ. Trying to figure out what happened and as the MODs put it as far as we know, unless otherwise told they are both presumed victims.

Activists are political figures are they not??? They work for the good or bad of the system. They have nothing to do with what happened on February 26th. TM story stopped on Feb. 26th. He has no history after that date. GZ's story seems to be still evolving. What Al did 20 years ago or today has nothing to do with TM or why he died. jmo

They are having a lot of impact on this country right now in the name of Trayvon.

IMO its relevant to the case.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I have a question? Let's just for a moment think about this?

If Zimmerman is never arrested, charged, prosecuted for the death of Trayvon Martin and he was allowed to just go on with his life as he had left off before this happened, would you want him in your neighborhood? Would you feel safe with him having a gun and becoming the Neighborhood Watch Captain of your neighborhood? Would you allow your child to go and pick up some snacks from a store if you knew George Zimmerman was lurking around the neighborhood?

If the evidence shows it was self defense, yes to all the questions.

 

[SuziQ]

Our civil rights are the same no matter color.

All U.S. citizens should be treated the same way and they are not.

 

[SuziQ]

Our civil rights are the same no matter color.

All U.S. citizens should be treated the same way and they are not.

 

[m00c0w]

So, I came across this article where Jesse Jackson was doing an interview about the Trayvon Martin case:

Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson said Friday that he's grateful the rest of the country has sat up and taken notice of the tragic slaying of Trayvon Martin. But he can't help but wonder: Why has it taken so long for everyone else to recognize the chronic injustices that African Americans face?

Jackson predicted that the protests will continue to multiply in number and that the ranks of protestors will swell until Zimmerman is arrested.
"As long as he is outside of the court system, the protests will intensify and spill over into other dimensions," Jackson said. "His lack of appearance in the court system is a source of embarrassment and humiliation. He needs to face the court."

He added: "Blacks are under attack." African American families are facing record home foreclosures and unemployment. Their children are burdened with student loan debt. States, particularly conservative ones, are passing voter laws that leaders know will disenfranchise blacks and other minorities. Meanwhile, the nation's prisons are brimming with black faces, he said, and their numbers that suggest that the legal system is quicker to send blacks to prison than whites.

"Our disparities are great," he said. "Targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business."

"No justice, no peace," he said. "The indifference to this kind of pain is just going to intensify the protests."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...n-case-jesse-jackson-20120323,0,2131299.story

It doesn't seem like he's necessarily advocating peaceful demonstrations when he says things like, "No justice, no peace." It seems like he's race-baiting when he goes into how "Black are under attack", and "Targeting, arresting, convicting blacks and ultimately killing us is big business." It certainly comes across to me like he's pushing his own agenda.

 

[tlcya]

Ok I get that.

But what they are saying is making a HUGE impact on this country right now.

There are people who are feeding off of this stuff. For instance, the group of kids who stormed the Wal-Greens and tore it up. They were incited by the "activists" and the race speeches.

I wonder, we're those kids charged?
They had great video of all of them running through the doors.

as is his right under the guarantee of freedom of speech. Just like that horrible little man the preacher who goes round with his hate at funerals, this is the price tag that comes attached to free speech. For AS - for you - for me.

 

[Inabsentia]

Our civil rights are the same no matter color.

Really, that's all you took away from Gitana's lengthy, well thought out, and thoughtful, obviously time consuming response to the question's YOU asked? Huh...

 

[LambChop]

You're on point with the info provided re: caps, I just diverted the issue directly to the source (erythrocytes) of the bilirubin & biliverdin that are part of the observable bruise.
AND...your scenario of hypovolemic shock is also on point, mine was regarding the anticipated bruises on one's hard fist making contact with another hard surface as the distortion to the cardiac flow (the gunshot & subsequent wound) was described to be in response to the serious and sever beating.
PERI-mortem bruising can occur in cases where the decedent is "treated roughly" as in tossed off of another, tossed onto or into a hard surface, kicked, etc.
Given the probable rapid exsanguination of the decedent in this case, post-mortem bruising would not be expected UNLESS there was gross mishandling of the corpse but tissue sections MIGHT shed light on that issue.

Maybe you can help me understand this. Mr. Z claims TM was banging his head on the cement and I'm assuming that would have been with TM's hands. But GZ had no hair for TM to have grabbed onto which you might expect when you grab someone to bang their head. So TM would have had to had GZ's head in his hands which would, IMO, cause bruising to himself or scraping his knuckles at the very least. Wouldn't that be apparent after his death? jmo