FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

[tehcloser]

Nothing we have seen points to it being racial so far.

EXCEPT: JJ, AS,and the Black Panthers telling us it is.

That's a matter of opinion, some of us see that there could be some racial issues involved.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I understand his past is relevant, but how long ago was this? 2004? Wasn't the guy 19-20 yrs old? Older a few years older than TM was?

If you read through all the transcripts, there really is a pattern there. It was getting more and more obsessive and it was only a matter of time before this happened. He is not a stable man, imo. I think he has some serious issues with anger, authority, power, etc...

 

[iluvmua]

I'm confused by your response.

Was this the description GZ gave in a call?
If so, there is nothing racist about it.
It's a description,

A description of me would go something like this:

Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Adult white female “apprx 35 years old, five feet six inches tall “round build short brown hair” last seen wearing an LSU t-shirt and blue jeans.

I'm white. White would be in my description


Am I missing something???

The 911 operator asked George weather the person was White, Black, or Hispanic and George said "He Looks Black".

exactly He was asked a question by the 911 oparator.

 

[Bottle Cap]

That didn't answer my question.
I asked if its ok to advocate for someone you know is lying.

Everybody has civil rights correct? Even white people?

We do all have civil rights of course. In the larger picture, that is human rights. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 however, is more in keeping with this particular topic.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/civil-rights/

According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: "In contemporary political thought, the term ‘civil rights’ is indissolubly linked to the struggle for equality of American blacks during the 1950s and 60s. The aim of that struggle was to secure the status of equal citizenship in a liberal democratic state. Civil rights are the basic legal rights a person must possess in order to have such a status."

It has broadened since 1964 to apply not just to minorities and women to include those with disabilities and sexual orientation issues. In other words, those who are at a disadvantage in the civil rights sweepstakes as compared with the rest of the population. We don't expect women's rights campaigners to take on campaigning for the GLBT community, so we shouldn't expect Sharpton to advocate for virtually every whose civil rights are in danger either.

 

[LolaMoon08]

The 911 operator asked George weather the person was White, Black, or Hispanic and George said "He Looks Black".

exactly He was asked a question by the 911 oparator.

And if Trayvon had already walked up to Zimmerman's car and asked "What's your f***ing problem" and Zimmerman replied: "Nothing man." and rolled up his window and called LE after that... he would have known Trayvon was black. He wouldn't have just thought Trayvon was black.

 

[LambChop]

and his own people say he knew brawley was lying and advocated against the "white men" anyway.
Yuck.

what does this have to do with this case??? It might help to get back on topic so Beach can get some sleep tonight. jmo

 

[dienermom]

People who have worked for him say that even when he knows someone is lying, he will advocate for them anyway.

I never mentioned Trayvon.

Do you have a cite for this? Also, respectfully, even if true, how is this relevant in this case, unless you believe someone is lying here?

 

[pkz]

People who have worked for him say that even when he knows someone is lying, he will advocate for them anyway.

I never mentioned Trayvon.

Tucker Carlson went on a college tour with him, so I can hardly believe that he is all that terrible

 

[iluvmua]

Nothing we have seen points to it being racial so far.

EXCEPT: JJ, AS,and the Black Panthers telling us it is.

My thoughts exactly

 

[annalia]

I can only imagine how this case has increased guns sales.If people are afraid of riots, I would think they will make sure they have guns in case the crowds go wild.

I was thinking about gun sales increasing but my thought was people will buy guns to protect themselves from any vigilantes who might mistake them for a criminal and think they needed to be chased down.

I was also thinking that maybe as soon as kids turn 18 they should be given a gun for the same reason, because skittles and iced tea don't seem to work as well in protecting oneself.

JMHO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Nothing we have seen points to it being racial so far.

EXCEPT: JJ, AS,and the Black Panthers telling us it is.

Well the city Sandford is asking the United States Justice Department to come in because of evidence and complaints that people of color are treated differently in cases.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

That's a matter of opinion, some of us see that there could be some racial issues involved.

Could be.

COULD being the operative word.

 

[pinkflamingo]

Nothing is stopping anyone from making a thread about this case you linked? This forum is to discuss Trayvon's case. I am outraged by many, many cases. Especially those in the Crimes Against Children section, but a thread can always be made about a case you want to discuss?

I don't see stories like this becoming front page news or inciting riots or marches by white people. Why? However, this GZ/TM case which may or may not be an incident of racism (no one knows for sure even a month later) and it is making front page news and incurring the wrath of Al Sharpton/ Jesse Jackson. Why the double standard is my point?

 

[LolaMoon08]

If there was ever a case where Al Sharpton and the NAACP should be involved in... it is this one.

I admit that they have gotten involved in many cases that they should not have gotten involved in, but this is one I believe there is cause for them to be involved.

MOO

 

[CHICANA]

I'm not sure that there is any MSM information that could answer your legitimate question satisfactorily, but under the circumstances I submit the following 'walks like a duck, quacks like a duck' information:

From:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...an-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

Quote:
"36. April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9” years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair” last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts"

I read about a call made that he was concerned about a young child in the street alone or something like that, could that have been this call ?

 

[iluvmua]

So now we have two accounts of George Zimmerman losing his cool on women. Once with an ex-fiance and once while bouncing at an "illegal party." We have his 911 transcripts starting all the way back to 2004 where we know on at least one occasion he chased after another motorist and we have no idea how many lives he may have put in jeopardy, depending on the speed he was traveling while doing this.

IMO, George Zimmerman has been a reckless man for a very long time. A dangerous man for a very long time. I have no doubt that had it not been Trayvon that night, it would have happened eventually.

ETA: I think that is something we should really think long and hard about. If it was not Trayvon that night, it would have eventually been someone else's child. White, Black, Hispanic, Asian. Girl. Boy.

Have you ever heard that people CAN change????? < mod snip>.

That was 8 years ago.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Do you have a cite for this? Also, respectfully, even if true, how is this relevant in this case, unless you believe someone is lying here?

AS is an activist in THIS case. So I'd say it's relevant.
His character is relevant.

IMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

I don't see stories like this becoming front page news or inciting riots or marches by white people. Why?

I don't know? I'm sure if you wanted to start a riot or march for justice for this young victim, you could? Start an online petition? Start calling Nancy Grace? Anderson Cooper? Demand that this story get some press? I know that many of us here have called upon different people in the press to get a story out there?

There was a case here (my part of Florida) a few years ago where a white kid was brutally beat by a cop (proven unjustified) and the black community stood side by side with the white community in protest of Police Brutality.

 

[Boytwnmom]

but why does that mean this one doesn't exist? This case is about more than one thing-it's about one guy making race based decisions about whether a person belongs and has so much faith in his decision that he feels confident in going after it carrying deadly force. There's the issue of police conduct or misconduct and how it was so quickly determined, right at the scene that no crime had been committed, that there was no need to secure the location, find evidence, get down witness testimony etc. There's a police chief acting as defense atty for the shooter. There's a dead boys family seemingly treated quite disrespectfully.

Given the history of racial problems in this country is it really so hard to empathize with people who have historically been marginalized and treated as outsiders, as those who don't really belong and have no real right to co-exist in society. Those who, if they're walking in a gated community, are assumed to not belong, even though other black people live there. People who see this boy shot and killed for no good reason that has been shown.

I just don't find it at all hard to empathize here with the Martins while I find it very hard to empathize with GZ. I admit that. I don't think he had any right to do what he did. If he had just stayed in his car or left his gun in the car if he HAD to pursue this boy, this didn't have to end in a death. His extremely wrong judgment about this person would not have had a deadly ending if he had just left it with 911 and waited for the cops who were on their way. Then his "mistake" about Trayvon maybe could have ended with an introduction that may have set everyone on a more productive path to seeing another person as an individual and not a type. But once he was committed to voluntarily undertaking a confrontation with deadly force I place the blame on him as the adult and the one with clearer choices. For we don't know what Trayvon thought or did beyond what his GF remembers him saying about the weird guy and being followed. He was always the prey and GZ the hunter who didn't have to start or end the hunt. Some may believe Trayvon started the altercation but I haven't seen evidence of that.

Yes, there are lots of problems in the larger black community. There are problems in poor and lower class neighborhoods all over the country. Some people are scared that Sharia law is coming...whatever. That doesn't mean that there is no problem in Sanford FL that has to do with the death of Trayvon.

I agree---GZ should have been arrested.

But it is sickening the way that Sharpton and Jackson go out there and pretend that the young black males are all dying because they are being killed by white racists. That is exactly what they are trying to spin this into.

and what is the truth?

" Blacks are six times more likely to be victims of violent crime than whites. The same study reports that Blacks are eight times more likely than whites to be perpetrators of violent crime than their white counterparts."

http://newsone.com/nation/tjstarr/black-male-on-black-male-crime/

Meanwhile these national protests are all about 'white people killing young blacks' for no apparent reason. Ignoring the facts completely that helped to create the bias some might have when they see a teen black at night wandering their neighborhood. Sharpton is trying to make this all about white racism and is ignoring the responsibility that he has as a leader to get his own house in order too. This whole thing is interrelated, imo.

If statistically it can be shown that black males are EIGHT TIMES more likely to be violent perps in the neighborhood than whites, is it justified for a watchman to feel suspicious and even nervous?

 

[joypath]

I was fairly certain that bruises form when tissue is damaged and capillaries are damaged as a result. The red blood cells then leak out of the capillaries into the surrounding tissue, discoloring it. The citation you provided supports this. I'm not sure if that's what you were trying to get across, but as I understand it, it has little to do with actual burst blood cells and more to do with burst capillaries that leak blood cells into the surrounding tissue.

If the victim suffered a major arterial perforation (I'm assuming, based on the current evidence that he probably had a perforated aorta), the body would almost immediately go into hypovolemic shock due to a severe decrease in blood volume. Capillaries would constrict, and blood would start to get diverted to the "trunk" of the body. If it was an aortic perforation, the blood being diverted would most likely get pumped out of the body just as fast as it arrived. In those circumstances, it doesn't seem likely that much, if any bruising would occur post-mortem.

You're on point with the info provided re: caps, I just diverted the issue directly to the source (erythrocytes) of the bilirubin & biliverdin that are part of the observable bruise.
AND...your scenario of hypovolemic shock is also on point, mine was regarding the anticipated bruises on one's hard fist making contact with another hard surface as the distortion to the cardiac flow (the gunshot & subsequent wound) was described to be in response to the serious and sever beating.
PERI-mortem bruising can occur in cases where the decedent is "treated roughly" as in tossed off of another, tossed onto or into a hard surface, kicked, etc.
Given the probable rapid exsanguination of the decedent in this case, post-mortem bruising would not be expected UNLESS there was gross mishandling of the corpse but tissue sections MIGHT shed light on that issue.