Identified! FL - Big Cypress Natl Preserve, Male Hiker, Denim & “Mostly Harmless” July 2018 - Vance Rodriguez #3

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  • #861
Hi all - first time poster, long time reader. Thank you for your discussion on this strange case. It certainly captivated me and I’ve enjoyed many of your deep dives, especially the words of the hikers.

Please tell me where I’m off-base. To me, what is most fascinating and perhaps disturbing are the last few months of his life from when the last photo of him was taken, on March 17, 2018, to when he was found, four months later. Something has gone terribly wrong during these months. If we apply some logic, as far as I can tell, there are three possible conclusions that we could reach:

1) He continued hiking southbound. This seems the least plausible to me, as also mentioned by Narkj and Vespertine, as the Keys are highly populated, there’s only one main road in and out that he’d have to navigate, and there almost certainly would have been sightings. Vespertine also stated that “Mike” said that he did not show up on any trail cameras south of where he was found (where did this information come from? sorry if I missed it). Also: there were fires in the area.

Furthermore: he would doubtlessly be noticed by a hiker, or just another human, if he was approaching that incredibly low weight. If we look at the March 17, 2018 photo, to me, taking into account that photos aren’t always a good gauge, I would still say that if he was 5' 8" he would still be around 130 pounds in that photo. “Hiker skinny” as someone stated. That would mean that between mid-March and mid-July, he lost around 50 pounds of body weight. This would be noticeable.

2) He was living in the park (as the NAMUS info suggests). This is plausible to me. However, if this is indeed the case, it opens up a number of problematic questions.

Why on earth live at a campsite so far away from a re-supply area for food? If he were camped there, he would have had to eventually re-supply with long hikes in and out, and again, he probably would be noticed. Especially if he were approaching that dangerously unhealthy weight.

The Everglades in July is an incredibly inhospitable area to set-up shop for a couple of months, with 90-degree heat and humidity and regular brutal thunderstorms. He was in a tent, doing…nothing? Writing Screeps code as he wasted away? Again, it doesn’t seem logical unless you allow for the fact that something was going on, physically or psychologically, or both.

I believe he would have eventually noticed his own wasting condition and could not pass it off as hiking weight loss. His clothes would not fit - at that weight, his lime green shorts would have just fallen off his body. He would have been weak, exhausted. If he had noticed it, why had he not sought help? Why did he not move closer to a populated area? If a person was trapped in the park, unable to move, wouldn’t they have left a note, yelled at a passing hiker?

Did he have a condition? The autopsy, as everyone has pointed out, does not indicate anything immediate. One person on this list correctly listed Type 1 diabetes as a possible reason. Initially I thought this was possible - I am a Type 1 and just before I was diagnosed, I had lost 25 pounds in less than two months without trying, due to raging hyperglycemia and the cells not getting enough glucose, and thus eating your fat to survive. Since he probably had little to no body fat and was hiking nonstop, this could have happened even more quickly. There is no possible way you can keep on weight, when this condition takes hold.

However, you would absolutely feel the physical ramifications of this. Crushing fatigue, the pain of ketoacidosis, especially in your upper thighs - you can’t do a damn thing, let alone hike with a heavy load. If he did nothing, he would gradually suffer organ failure, paralysis - I do believe this would show on an autopsy in some fashion, even if it happened pretty quickly. It certainly could be true, as moonriverfarm suggested in their talks with the hiker who found him, that if he was there he had not moved much in some time - either unable or unwilling to move - and simply died of arrest.

But whether he had a physical condition or didn’t perhaps isn’t the point: it seems possible that whatever the case, he ignored his body’s physical response and allowed himself, for whatever reason, to get to 83 pounds, seemingly without ever asking for help or hiking to civilization when - at least it seems - these options were available. This dramatic wasting would not have happened over a week. Therefore, if he did indeed hunker down in the park for 2-3 months, it remains a bizarre choice to do so. Could he not move, perhaps? Again, it seems illogical based on the autopsy.

3) He did something else, then returned to the park. There are so many potential “what-ifs” in this scenario, it’s not even worth really digging into. But, if he was not in the park for the duration, and he was not continuing to hike, then surely, once again, he would have been noticed by someone.

Well, thanks for reading this rumination :)
 
  • #862
Hi all - first time poster, long time reader. Thank you for your discussion on this strange case. It certainly captivated me and I’ve enjoyed many of your deep dives, especially the words of the hikers.

Please tell me where I’m off-base. To me, what is most fascinating and perhaps disturbing are the last few months of his life from when the last photo of him was taken, on March 17, 2018, to when he was found, four months later. Something has gone terribly wrong during these months. If we apply some logic, as far as I can tell, there are three possible conclusions that we could reach:

1) He continued hiking southbound. This seems the least plausible to me, as also mentioned by Narkj and Vespertine, as the Keys are highly populated, there’s only one main road in and out that he’d have to navigate, and there almost certainly would have been sightings. Vespertine also stated that “Mike” said that he did not show up on any trail cameras south of where he was found (where did this information come from? sorry if I missed it). Also: there were fires in the area.

Furthermore: he would doubtlessly be noticed by a hiker, or just another human, if he was approaching that incredibly low weight. If we look at the March 17, 2018 photo, to me, taking into account that photos aren’t always a good gauge, I would still say that if he was 5' 8" he would still be around 130 pounds in that photo. “Hiker skinny” as someone stated. That would mean that between mid-March and mid-July, he lost around 50 pounds of body weight. This would be noticeable.

2) He was living in the park (as the NAMUS info suggests). This is plausible to me. However, if this is indeed the case, it opens up a number of problematic questions.

Why on earth live at a campsite so far away from a re-supply area for food? If he were camped there, he would have had to eventually re-supply with long hikes in and out, and again, he probably would be noticed. Especially if he were approaching that dangerously unhealthy weight.

The Everglades in July is an incredibly inhospitable area to set-up shop for a couple of months, with 90-degree heat and humidity and regular brutal thunderstorms. He was in a tent, doing…nothing? Writing Screeps code as he wasted away? Again, it doesn’t seem logical unless you allow for the fact that something was going on, physically or psychologically, or both.

I believe he would have eventually noticed his own wasting condition and could not pass it off as hiking weight loss. His clothes would not fit - at that weight, his lime green shorts would have just fallen off his body. He would have been weak, exhausted. If he had noticed it, why had he not sought help? Why did he not move closer to a populated area? If a person was trapped in the park, unable to move, wouldn’t they have left a note, yelled at a passing hiker?

Did he have a condition? The autopsy, as everyone has pointed out, does not indicate anything immediate. One person on this list correctly listed Type 1 diabetes as a possible reason. Initially I thought this was possible - I am a Type 1 and just before I was diagnosed, I had lost 25 pounds in less than two months without trying, due to raging hyperglycemia and the cells not getting enough glucose, and thus eating your fat to survive. Since he probably had little to no body fat and was hiking nonstop, this could have happened even more quickly. There is no possible way you can keep on weight, when this condition takes hold.

However, you would absolutely feel the physical ramifications of this. Crushing fatigue, the pain of ketoacidosis, especially in your upper thighs - you can’t do a damn thing, let alone hike with a heavy load. If he did nothing, he would gradually suffer organ failure, paralysis - I do believe this would show on an autopsy in some fashion, even if it happened pretty quickly. It certainly could be true, as moonriverfarm suggested in their talks with the hiker who found him, that if he was there he had not moved much in some time - either unable or unwilling to move - and simply died of arrest.

But whether he had a physical condition or didn’t perhaps isn’t the point: it seems possible that whatever the case, he ignored his body’s physical response and allowed himself, for whatever reason, to get to 83 pounds, seemingly without ever asking for help or hiking to civilization when - at least it seems - these options were available. This dramatic wasting would not have happened over a week. Therefore, if he did indeed hunker down in the park for 2-3 months, it remains a bizarre choice to do so. Could he not move, perhaps? Again, it seems illogical based on the autopsy.

3) He did something else, then returned to the park. There are so many potential “what-ifs” in this scenario, it’s not even worth really digging into. But, if he was not in the park for the duration, and he was not continuing to hike, then surely, once again, he would have been noticed by someone.

Well, thanks for reading this rumination :)

Ok, I highlighted two points in red. I will give my two cents on them.

I personally feel like between the lack of sightings and the lack of evidence that he had been in the park long term, it is possible that these two points could support the idea that he actually did stay with someone (sister) in the Florida area for a while (as one person claimed he said that he did at that time) If he was picked up by her, or if she lived much closer than the recollection (Fort Meyers or Sarasota) then he would not have been seen by hikers or trail cams, as he was probably enjoying time with this person (alleged sister theory).

I also think that one of the big questions could possibly be tied to this: "Where was that massive pack we saw in pictures?" Well, if he did stay with a sister, he may have stored it at her home and/or asked her to mail it to him, or just hold onto it until he came back later for a more orthodox visit (plane, car, etc)

I highlighted a second set of points in green, to expand upon.

What really throws me off about MH's weight is other cases that have involved rapid decomposition, seemingly for no reason. There are two other cases I can think of (I cannot remember one but it involved a female) and the other being Ricky McCormick (the 1999 death with strange cryptic notes). McCormick's body was very badly decomposed, and it was confirmed that he was alive a few days before he was found. McCormick was found in summer heat, in St. Charles county near St. Louis MO. The point is, his body was very badly decomposed for no explainable reason (and if I remember correctly it made his cause of death extremely hard to identify).

I realize I am mentioning decomposition, and in 100% transparency, I am not sure if MH was decomposing, or was just very lightweight when found. McCormick's body was very light when it was found, also.
 
  • #863
Thanks for your response!

The missing pack indeed is something, I agree. I didn't mention it because I was strictly trying to focus on variables based on what we do know. Of course, totally subjective and I indeed strayed!

If we allow for the fact that he did indeed stay with someone (sister), and that indeed he was NOT in the park for very long before being found, then that would mean that said sister - or anyone out in public who knew/noticed him - would have noticed his wasting condition and did nothing. I do believe that even if he was 110 pounds when he visited sister, and, say, lost a remaining 30 in the park in short order, he still would have looked dangerously thin and deeply ill. Theoretically, at least, that would mean that sister/friend/public did nothing. Again, I allow all of this to be potentially wrong, since it's all anecdotal.
 
  • #864
I also can't imagine him living in the park for three months.
 
  • #865
Those of you who have connections to the CCSO, what do you think about asking about Matthew Pendergrast? I had submitted his name ages ago & didn't hear back. I think about him periodically & wonder still...

Matthew David Pendergrast – The Charley Project
 
  • #866
IMO Just wanted to add the notebook writings, Dungeons & Dragons play, video games, etc have always made me wonder. Also, when I look at him, I see a young MH. I know it is far fetched because he has been missing for 20 years, but...
 
  • #867
Thanks for your response!

The missing pack indeed is something, I agree. I didn't mention it because I was strictly trying to focus on variables based on what we do know. Of course, totally subjective and I indeed strayed!

If we allow for the fact that he did indeed stay with someone (sister), and that indeed he was NOT in the park for very long before being found, then that would mean that said sister - or anyone out in public who knew/noticed him - would have noticed his wasting condition and did nothing. I do believe that even if he was 110 pounds when he visited sister, and, say, lost a remaining 30 in the park in short order, he still would have looked dangerously thin and deeply ill. Theoretically, at least, that would mean that sister/friend/public did nothing. Again, I allow all of this to be potentially wrong, since it's all anecdotal.

That's part of why this entire situation is so hard! No one would let their loved one go back on the trail in good conscious. Though, he could have looked normally healthy and lost all of that weight after his death or due to decomposition (which both or either seem extremely unlikely).

A side-note, there was a poster from a forum once who somehow interpreted MH visiting his sister as not visiting a living person, but visiting her grave. (This would totally throw off the pick-up and visit theory, unless he took transportation to visit the grave).

There is definetley parts of the story that would make everything click, but unfortunately those parts are unknown between the time of his last sighting and the time that his body was found.
 
  • #868
IMO, his final weight at death is something I can't even visualize on an adult male. It would have to look beyond shocking and alarming to see.

I keep picturing this scenario where he got to that location and made no attempt to go further. That's a terrible thought as well because the state of mind you would have to be in to just stay put and maybe pass the time by writing in your notebooks and sleeping.

IIRC, they believe he was only deceased a couple of days before being found.

It's crazy to think (to me at least) that if it would just been a few days earlier and those hikers found him alive but barley hanging on - what would have happened then.

I also believe his backpack was recovered but for whatever reason they didn't list it. IMO
 
  • #869
As part of my reporting and dead ends, I put in a public info request with NY state parks about anyone ticketed for illegally camping at Harriman or Bear Mountain and any cars abandoned there. They redacted most of the personal info, which made it mostly useless, but I suppose one of these cars could be his. I forwarded this all to CCSO and didn't hear anything back on it. Here's a link to my Dropbox with all the files. Not sure it will help, but there was more abandoned cars there than I would have imagined. Dropbox - Harriman-Bear - Simplify your life
Thank you for sharing these! I love this avenue of investigation, but if he lived in the city, it's entirely possible he didn't have a car.

I think these two are the most promising.
Dropbox - Vehicle Impound 17-11017.pdf-redact_Redacted.pdf - Simplify your life
Dropbox - Vehicle Impound 17-12195.pdf-redact_Redacted.pdf - Simplify your life
If anyone has access to NY vehicle registrations...
 
  • #870
Thank you for sharing these! I love this avenue of investigation, but if he lived in the city, it's entirely possible he didn't have a car.

I think these two are the most promising.
Dropbox - Vehicle Impound 17-11017.pdf-redact_Redacted.pdf - Simplify your life
Dropbox - Vehicle Impound 17-12195.pdf-redact_Redacted.pdf - Simplify your life
If anyone has access to NY vehicle registrations...
yes, they are both very close to New York City as far as parks go, and very popular with people who live there. I would imagine there's a bus or something.
 
  • #871
Thank you for sharing these! I love this avenue of investigation, but if he lived in the city, it's entirely possible he didn't have a car.

I think these two are the most promising.
Dropbox - Vehicle Impound 17-11017.pdf-redact_Redacted.pdf - Simplify your life
Dropbox - Vehicle Impound 17-12195.pdf-redact_Redacted.pdf - Simplify your life
If anyone has access to NY vehicle registrations...

I also find this angle to have a high amount of potential.

I think the biggest problem (besides the likelihood of no vehicle) is that Bear Mountain may not have been where he started. One FaceBook user claims that MH told them he took a bus to Bear Mountain (grain of salt)...point being that Bear Mountain (regardless of FaceBook) may not have been where his car (if he had one) was left, as we know that Brooklyn (as a residence) and New Jersey (as a place of work) are frequently mentioned.

Another angle that could become incredibly frustrating, incredibly quickly, is trying to narrow down overdue bills (water/electric/etc) and/or delinquent payments on a storage unit.

One angle I dabbled in was looking through social media posts to try and find a woman who was happy to see her brother (on a potentially surprise visit/stopped in unexpectedly while hiking) at her Florida home during Christmas 2017 or any time between the times of his last sighting and the time that his body was found. Not only difficult, but unfruitful for me.
 
  • #872
This may be a dumb suggestion but.. if MH was an avid hiker, and met lots of other avid hikers on the trail, would it make sense to put up fliers in REI stores up and down the East Coast? REI recently opened after only offering curb-side service in many places, and they're extremely busy because everyone has a lot of free time. There's a lot of foot traffic. There's also Orvis, Patagonia, etc.
 
  • #873
Do we know for a fact that he wrote in these notebooks? Or is it possible that they belonged to someone else. Is it considered that possibly there is no sister? I would love to identify this gentleman along with many more but I'm starting to get confused on how we will do this by solving his screeps codes and how his autopsy will help. I had mentioned in another group that possibly he is gay and that seemed to upset a lot of people. I didn't say it was a fact but is it wrong to go down that avenue and share to some groups? I'm not trying to get kicked off or deleted I just said it's possible. Other opinions would greatly be appreciated because I didn't realize people would get angry over this.

I don't see anyone on WS getting upset over the suggestion a UID may be gay. I think all of us who have offered up the possibility of sexual preference being a reason for a murder or disappearance are not presenting it as an indictment of the person's moral code but as another link in a chain that might move an investigation forward.

If you've been on a website where people get upset over the suggestion then it sounds like they are not open to alternate speculation. They may have taken Mostly Harmless under their virtual wing to protect his memory from suggestions they see in a negative light. I would place them in the camp of the meme "Leave Britney alone!"
 
  • #874
I don't see anyone on WS getting upset over the suggestion a UID may be gay. I think all of us who have offered up the possibility of sexual preference being a reason for a murder or disappearance are not presenting it as an indictment of the person's moral code but as another link in a chain that might move an investigation forward.

If you've been on a website where people get upset over the suggestion then it sounds like they are not open to alternate speculation. They may have taken Mostly Harmless under their virtual wing to protect his memory from suggestions they see in a negative light. I would place them in the camp of the meme "Leave Britney alone!"

This exactly!

It is why I inserted the "value to your audience" quote. It is the year 2020 and most of us have no quarrels. Sites or forums where people would get upset over the suggestion do exist, and most of us also know that if you post suggestions like that in those specific forums, you will get specific (expected) results.

Having said that, hopefully we can offer this poster some help with their goals regarding this angle.
 
  • #875
IMO, his final weight at death is something I can't even visualize on an adult male. It would have to look beyond shocking and alarming to see.

I keep picturing this scenario where he got to that location and made no attempt to go further. That's a terrible thought as well because the state of mind you would have to be in to just stay put and maybe pass the time by writing in your notebooks and sleeping.

IIRC, they believe he was only deceased a couple of days before being found.

It's crazy to think (to me at least) that if it would just been a few days earlier and those hikers found him alive but barley hanging on - what would have happened then.

I also believe his backpack was recovered but for whatever reason they didn't list it. IMO

I think it has been verified that his backpack and jacket were recovered.
 
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  • #876
Ok, I highlighted two points in red. I will give my two cents on them.

I personally feel like between the lack of sightings and the lack of evidence that he had been in the park long term, it is possible that these two points could support the idea that he actually did stay with someone (sister) in the Florida area for a while (as one person claimed he said that he did at that time) If he was picked up by her, or if she lived much closer than the recollection (Fort Meyers or Sarasota) then he would not have been seen by hikers or trail cams, as he was probably enjoying time with this person (alleged sister theory).

I also think that one of the big questions could possibly be tied to this: "Where was that massive pack we saw in pictures?" Well, if he did stay with a sister, he may have stored it at her home and/or asked her to mail it to him, or just hold onto it until he came back later for a more orthodox visit (plane, car, etc)

I highlighted a second set of points in green, to expand upon.

What really throws me off about MH's weight is other cases that have involved rapid decomposition, seemingly for no reason. There are two other cases I can think of (I cannot remember one but it involved a female) and the other being Ricky McCormick (the 1999 death with strange cryptic notes). McCormick's body was very badly decomposed, and it was confirmed that he was alive a few days before he was found. McCormick was found in summer heat, in St. Charles county near St. Louis MO. The point is, his body was very badly decomposed for no explainable reason (and if I remember correctly it made his cause of death extremely hard to identify).

I realize I am mentioning decomposition, and in 100% transparency, I am not sure if MH was decomposing, or was just very lightweight when found. McCormick's body was very light when it was found, also.


According to the young man who found him, he was not decomposed. this young man and i have had several conversations about that day and as close as he was to the tent, he does not even remember a foul odor.
 
  • #877
According to the young man who found him, he was not decomposed. this young man and i have had several conversations about that day and as close as he was to the tent, he does not even remember a foul odor.

I always found that a little odd considering the temperature and humidity that day and the days leading up to up were in the 90's and they estimated he died up to two days prior. Plus it had been very wet.

When you look up circumstances that could slow down decomposition NONE of those listed above would be included.

If you want to get into some supernatural aspects of death, the Catholic Church considers no decomp or odor a sign of holiness.
 
  • #878
I always found that a little odd considering the temperature and humidity that day and the days leading up to up were in the 90's and they estimated he died up to two days prior. Plus it had been very wet.

When you look up circumstances that could slow down decomposition NONE of those listed above would be included.

If you want to get into some supernatural aspects of death, the Catholic Church considers no decomp or odor a sign of holiness.


I found this report from the 1940's which is discussing the peat deposits in the US and mention the Everglades, specifically the area of Big Cypress as a special interest.

There have been many cases of mummified remains, found all over the world, that have been preserved because they were found in bogs. The high acid level slow down or completely eliminate the decomposition of dead bodies.

Here's the link. The pages referring to the Everglades start on page 117. You can go directly to the pertinent pages by clicking on the GO TO: page number.

The peat deposits of Florida, their occurrence, development and uses ( FGS: Bulletin 30)
 
  • #879
The autopsy report looks to be vague when it comes to decomposition. However, in multiple places, they do indicate "early stages" and "early changes" of decomposition. The body begins to bloat after 3-5 days of composition (the 2nd stage of decomposition) and there is no mention of that in the report, despite no estimated date of death listed. That, perhaps coupled with moonriverfarm's discussion with the hiker who discovered MH that he did not notice a smell in the subtropical heat of a Floridian summer, leans evidence more toward death being 1-3 days before discovery. Again, it's vague, but if I understand correctly, it seems that anything after the bloating stage means substantial bodily decay when it comes to inner organs (sorry...graphic).

So...the large backpack was found by law enforcement, but not listed? Is this documented anywhere? I couldn't find it directly, but I see people have mentioned it to be true. If so, then that leaves less potential evidence of him leaving the park to visit a relative. What would be interesting to definitively know from LE is if they found his large backpack nearby, and if he still had all those winter clothes with him that he was carrying back in mid-March.
 
  • #880
Matthew is interesting, I have bought the silver elves book but didn't glean anything from it, perhaps I need to try and find th epath he took through the book (It's a choose your own path/adventure book) .
I do wonder how if he had slowly starved none of his organs showed any signs of failing? They all seemed fairly healthy on the report. Could have have just been maintaining at a very low level enough so that organ failure didn't occur but then decided or something happened very quickly at the end to push him over and because he had the very low weight he didn't have any to spare to use in recovery. I wonder if he was bitten by something and they missed the puncture wound, is there animals that venom would dissipate in the blood after a certain time? I don't know finding his cause of death shouldn't be my main focus.
With the "Could he be Gay?" Statement, a few weeks ago on one of the Facebook groups someone asked this but more along the lines of "Could have had Aids.. maybe he's Gay", or something close which upset people. It was worded in a way that seemed to me to judge that perhaps all or only gay people have Aids, which obviously we know that disease doesn't discriminate, plus on the other side it would have shown on the autopsy and blood tests. I think you may be just posted it at a wrong time after an argument.
 
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