GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #4

[Abigail]

I definitely think she was planning to kill herself - she had no thought that she would go to jail because she thought she'd be dead. But she messed up her own suicide.

Curious that...she reloaded the gun to shoot herself, after shooting the kids -- 5 bullets -- in case she didn't get it right the first time, she said.

ETA: so...I been trying to think how that would work...I mean, if I were going to shoot myself, I suppose I'd put the gun at my temple or into my mouth. I'm pretty sure one bullet would do it, and if it didn't, I don't think I'd be in any shape to shoot any more.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

She had plenty of time to build up a huge resentment during those 7-8 weeks the family ignored her while she languished in bed.

I've been wondering about that! According to Parker's letter, she was in bed until 4 or 5 PM. At least on weekdays, that meant that the kids were in school, PS at work during those hours. Who, other than the bi-weekly house cleaner was there to check in on her?

 

[LambChop]

I've been wondering about that! According to Parker's letter, she was in bed until 4 or 5 PM. At least on weekdays, that meant that the kids were in school, PS at work during those hours. Who, other than the bi-weekly house cleaner was there to check in on her?

If she were a smoker, I doubt she was in bed that whole time. As you say, who was there to check up on her, and she would manage to get up to pick up the kids from school because she had the carpool. That takes an effort. jmo

 

[turaj]

I've never known a doctor or mental health professional to ignore it. But, often they CYA and just indicate it in a report or hand over the person talking about suicide to another pro.

Unfortunately, the families of people threatening suicide suffer the most to the point of becoming immune to the threats. Families often think the person is looking for attention.

I think there is a real danger of family getting immuned to the threats and it clearly happened here. But a professional should never ever become immuned to anything...especially one that does not have a long history with a patient. My opinion is that this Dr. failed to even do the minimum CYA as was evidenced by his confusion on the stand and some critical events in their interaction not even documented. (example I offer her inpatient and she declined and not one shred of paper to support that...frankly he could and did say anything on stand). I think anyone trying to say this guy did his job would be hard pressed to want him on the case if they had a family member with mental illness.

 

[Nymeria]

He said that men are 99.9% effective and usually don't tell anyone. Women who talk about is usually a cry for help. The ones who don't talk about don't want anyone to know because they don't want to be saved.

I think I am a little offended.....that is kind of sexist :snooty:

Kidding (but it does make it sound like women are needy).

Also, Happy Mothers Day to all the Moms out there! :toastred:

 

[Nymeria]

Does anyone remember this story? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hter-shoots-son-head-turning-gun-himself.html

Ironic that it is actually being played out again in the same area where this trial is happening.
The family in Tampa that the Father killed his wife, 2 kids and then himself (and burned down the house).
This seems to be happening so much more, I can not imagine things ever getting so bad that you would resort to this

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...e-20140507_1_murder-suicide-mansion-fireworks

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I am so pleased that so many members here have shared their experiences with MI here, both personal and family/friend related. I know I have used both to figure the puzzle of JS here.

In fact, it is a 3-D puzzle with very few pieces that clearly fit together. Some of the pieces are filled in by JS's statements to LE. Others are filled in by PS, JS's other family members, and doctors. So many pieces are a total blank.

Two of the pieces contain JS's outbursts in court. They tell us what makes her angry. In the first, she tries to manipulate her way out of agreeing to the date her children were murdered. The second tells us that she is angry the doctor didn't initially admit he told her it was OK to drink 1 or 2 alcoholic beverages with oxys. After the outburst, the doctor did admit to the ONE drink, which is a major flaw in his testimony. Never tell an alcoholic she can have one drink, there is no such thing.

The fact that JS told the housekeeper that she drank more when PS was away tells me that she wasn't going to comply with any instructions that went against what she wanted to do.

The same went for her bi-polar medications. IIRC, when the CSI testified, he read off the names/dates of various medications and clearly, JS wasn't taking them as instructed. There were too many pills in some of those bottles.

What bottles were empty were the pain pills. Her efforts to obtain some from her psychiatrist indicate she wanted more and she said she was craving them.

Clearly, she wanted to self-medicate with pain-killers and alcohol, not with the medications that had such horrible side-effects on her.

Can anyone with more knowledge than I comment on the ramifications of this?

To me, it means she needed major hospitalization to get herself on track. Would insurance pay for that? It sounds like they had the lower plan offered. Would she continue to be in denial that she was addicted to inappropriate "medications" which would not help her towards some semblance of wellness?

 

[turaj]

I am so pleased that so many members here have shared their experiences with MI here, both personal and family/friend related. I know I have used both to figure the puzzle of JS here.

In fact, it is a 3-D puzzle with very few pieces that clearly fit together. Some of the pieces are filled in by JS's statements to LE. Others are filled in by PS, JS's other family members, and doctors. So many pieces are a total blank.

Two of the pieces contain JS's outbursts in court. They tell us what makes her angry. In the first, she tries to manipulate her way out of agreeing to the date her children were murdered. The second tells us that she is angry the doctor didn't initially admit he told her it was OK to drink 1 or 2 alcoholic beverages with oxys. After the outburst, the doctor did admit to the ONE drink, which is a major flaw in his testimony. Never tell an alcoholic she can have one drink, there is no such thing.

The fact that JS told the housekeeper that she drank more when PS was away tells me that she wasn't going to comply with any instructions that went against what she wanted to do.

The same went for her bi-polar medications. IIRC, when the CSI testified, he read off the names/dates of various medications and clearly, JS wasn't taking them as instructed. There were too many pills in some of those bottles.

What bottles were empty were the pain pills. Her efforts to obtain some from her psychiatrist indicate she wanted more and she said she was craving them.

Clearly, she wanted to self-medicate with pain-killers and alcohol, not with the medications that had such horrible side-effects on her.

Can anyone with more knowledge than I comment on the ramifications of this?

To me, it means she needed major hospitalization to get herself on track. Would insurance pay for that? It sounds like they had the lower plan offered. Would she continue to be in denial that she was addicted to inappropriate "medications" which would not help her towards some semblance of wellness?

I agree major hospitalization needed to get a balance in meds...was not going to happen at home...would that help long term..I don't know in this case...I found the comment about having a "lower plan" for insurance interesting. Not sure if that has any basis in fact...I mean they lived a very nice lifestyle and JS had been sick for many many years...he was career military and high ranking...why would they not have the best insurance available ? Insurance or not she needed to be in a hospital and I have already gone on about what I think of the handling of her case by the Dr. and assume his superiors have taken a serious look a t it. Hope to see therapist next and Parker...but defense can't be planning much with the timeline they have set out. I think their client will be put away for life..even if they go with straight prison and no regard for the insanity just a matter of days or months before she will be transported right to the place she would go immediately if found insane. The results here will be similar no matter what. They are not going to have what it takes to deal with her in the more general prison.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I agree major hospitalization needed to get a balance in meds...was not going to happen at home...would that help long term..I don't know in this case...I found the comment about having a "lower plan" for insurance interesting. Not sure if that has any basis in fact...I mean they lived a very nice lifestyle and JS had been sick for many many years...he was career military and high ranking...why would they not have the best insurance available ? Insurance or not she needed to be in a hospital and I have already gone on about what I think of the handling of her case by the Dr. and assume his superiors have taken a serious look a t it. Hope to see therapist next and Parker...but defense can't be planning much with the timeline they have set out. I think their client will be put away for life..even if they go with straight prison and no regard for the insanity just a matter of days or months before she will be transported right to the place she would go immediately if found insane. The results here will be similar no matter what. They are not going to have what it takes to deal with her in the more general prison.

I'm sure that, if found guilty, she will go right to the prison health ward. I assume she is not in gen pop in jail. She needs a lot of care. She probably always will given her strong will to get what she wants and not what she needs.

 

[Hoosgirl]

What a heartbreaking case!

Something that has been bothering me about the investigation about JS hitting Calyx. Why was that not considered domestic violence? Is it because Calyx was her child, so it is not illegal to hit her? Even without observing injuries, JS admitted to it so why wasn't she charged with assault?

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

 

[Zuri]

I think there is a real danger of family getting immuned to the threats and it clearly happened here. But a professional should never ever become immuned to anything...especially one that does not have a long history with a patient. My opinion is that this Dr. failed to even do the minimum CYA as was evidenced by his confusion on the stand and some critical events in their interaction not even documented. (example I offer her inpatient and she declined and not one shred of paper to support that...frankly he could and did say anything on stand). I think anyone trying to say this guy did his job would be hard pressed to want him on the case if they had a family member with mental illness.

I think we have to remember that he was a new third year resident as of July 1, 2010. His previous year was spent treating inpatients. When assessing a risk of suicide or homicide, the questions are not usually direct to the patient. It may consist of "Have you had any thoughts of harming yourself or others? to more indirect. As a new third year, he did not have the experience to draw from at that time to truly assess her potential for suicide/homicide as JS was self reporting. If she was demonstrating psychosis or schizoid tendencies, that he might have picked up on. The mere fact that she was able to get dressed, drive to the appointments, call him, IMO was indicative of someone who was still high functioning despite the depression. It would have been interesting to hear what meds she overdosed on 5 years ago and the circumstances around it.

IMO he was the perfect foil for her. He was "new", relatively inexperienced and more easily manipulated. His job was medication management. Her therapist OTOH, was the first line. I will be interested to hear what she has to say. If she was dealing with contemporaneous issues, such as the problems JS had with CS, she may not have been able to dig deeper. IMO, the MD was in full CYA mode on the stand. I found him to be more defensive on DT examination and more visibly relaxed when the PT was crossing him. He seemed to embrace the ETOH abuse vs. acute MI. JMO

 

[Jewels53]

I think we have to remember that he was a new third year resident as of July 1, 2010. His previous year was spent treating inpatients. When assessing a risk of suicide or homicide, the questions are not usually direct to the patient. It may consist of "Have you had any thoughts of harming yourself or others? to more indirect. As a new third year, he did not have the experience to draw from at that time to truly assess her potential for suicide/homicide as JS was self reporting. If she was demonstrating psychosis or schizoid tendencies, that he might have picked up on. The mere fact that she was able to get dressed, drive to the appointments, call him, IMO was indicative of someone who was still high functioning despite the depression. It would have been interesting to hear what meds she overdosed on 5 years ago and the circumstances around it.

IMO he was the perfect foil for her. He was "new", relatively inexperienced and more easily manipulated. His job was medication management. Her therapist OTOH, was the first line. I will be interested to hear what she has to say. If she was dealing with contemporaneous issues, such as the problems JS had with CS, she may not have been able to dig deeper. IMO, the MD was in full CYA mode on the stand. I found him to be more defensive on DT examination and more visibly relaxed when the PT was crossing him. He seemed to embrace the ETOH abuse vs. acute MI. JMO

Zuri what a excellent post! I always appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Zuri]

IIRC, JS went to rehab in November and it appears there was no further program. Rehab will encompass both ETOH and drugs and initially serves as detox. I did not hear any testimony as to whether she was in a partial hospitalization program post rehab/ detox followed by intensive outpatient treatment. It just sounded as though she continued with intensive OP. Missing that critical step was key and that is what I am failing to understand where the disconnect was with her support system.

I learned these steps and failure to follow the program with my son. The second time, I think I got it right. My son has now been drug free for 1 1/2 years and is in an environment where sobriety is encouraged and supported. My failure as a mother was not recognizing the depth of his addiction and MI, despite having a working knowledge of MI. I had him in counseling, seeing a psychiatrist, settinghim up for success. I wanted to believe that he was making progress when in fact, right in front of my eyes that did not see, he had escalated his drug use. If I were to blame PS, I would be hypocritical as I too, am guilty of the same. Fortunately, my son was not suicidal or homicidal nor is he now.

My heart goes out to Bernina, White Orchids, Abigail and others who have fought this fight and continue to do so to this day. Their strength, patience and love for their families speaks volumes and I am personally humbled by their resilience. God Bless. Xo IMO

 

[Chelly]

Curious that...she reloaded the gun to shoot herself, after shooting the kids -- 5 bullets -- in case she didn't get it right the first time, she said.

ETA: so...I been trying to think how that would work...I mean, if I were going to shoot myself, I suppose I'd put the gun at my temple or into my mouth. I'm pretty sure one bullet would do it, and if it didn't, I don't think I'd be in any shape to shoot any more.

I have been thinking about the things she did and didn't do after killing the kids. I bet the first thing would be to have a few drinks to steady herself. We know she reloaded the gun. She wrote postit notes and placed them where they would be read. She went to the pool, but left the gun in the house. If her plan had been to commit suicide, why didn't she bring the gun with her? The lanai would have been the perfect place to shoot herself, no blood mess in the house.

 

[Chelly]

It just depends on the seriousness. You just never know. That is wonderful you help people!! I admire you.

Oh thank you, but please don't admire me, I am a recovering alcoholic myself. Helping others stay sober has kept me sober the past 12 years. People in recovery have taught me all I know today. I am very fortunate and grateful.

 

[Loudmouth]

I don't know if anyone has asked this but:

According to the car pool driver's testimony, there were no sticky notes on the door when he came to pick up the children. But when LE arrived, there was a sticky note stating that the family had gone to NYC. The note was addressed to "carpool". What would be the purpose of her putting that note on the door AFTER the carpool was due to arrive?

 

[Loudmouth]

My theory:

Killings motivated by spite/anger and the desire to hurt/punish.
Mental illness amplified the feelings, alcohol and meds made her think she could get away with it.

 

[turaj]

I don't know if anyone has asked this but:

According to the car pool driver's testimony, there were no sticky notes on the door when he came to pick up the children. But when LE arrived, there was a sticky note stating that the family had gone to NYC. The note was addressed to "carpool". What would be the purpose of her putting that note on the door AFTER the carpool was due to arrive?

She had no idea her mother would call police and request they check the home. I think she put those up to look like business as usual for anyone else that came by...gone to NYC...she was getting everything really for PS to return and find all of them. I do think she intended to kill herself too even though she had more than enough time to do it. If her mother had not called the plan probably would have worked.

 

[Loudmouth]

Also, has anyone noticed how JS totally SCOWLS at the witnesses and court employees? Her DT should tell her to stop doing that. I mean, it wouldn't be appropriate for her to sit there and smile, but geez find a happy medium.

 

[turaj]

Also, has anyone noticed how JS totally SCOWLS at the witnesses and court employees? Her DT should tell her to stop doing that. I mean, it wouldn't be appropriate for her to sit there and smile, but geez find a happy medium.

I'm sure that the jury is noticing many things about JS~~her own attorneys have a rough time even looking at her. I'm sure they have figured out who her family is in the courtroom and no eye contact there either. This is one strange courtroom...Prunier seems to be the only one with any personality.