GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #5

[NotMyselfNEMore]

Locked up

That makes it much easier to think about - thank you! Florida is a hard state in which to be a juror, in my opinion.

 

[YESorNO]

Thanks Bernina, but looks like a few of us will be keeping our heads down.:floorlaugh:

No Chelly, Bernina- I will keep my head up, no matter what the jury's verdict is, or anyone else's verdict. I have assessed all the same information that everyone has and I came to my conclusion. That's enough for me and I'm proud of it.
I don't need anyone to agree with me.
I do respect everyone else's opinion.

 

[newone]

so let me get this straight....judge is going tell jury they can either

acquit...
or choose 1st or 2nd d murder

 

[HauntsForHope]

I was spending a few minutes trying to "walk in her shoes". To see things from her perspective... and it's horrifying.

Picture this if you can...
You have suffered for years and years, tried all kinds of experimental treatments, making things worse instead of better.. You have become marginalized, ridiculed and shunned. You have reached wits end and have decided to end it all. You leave notes, kill your kids, and overdose....
Only to wake up the next morning and find you failed to die from the pills and are now forced to face the murder of your kids for the rest of your life. Sounds like something out of a Steven King Movie.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Either guilty of first degree or not guilty by reason of insanity would be my choice. If guilty of 2nd or voluntary manslaughter she would be out at some point. I think max here in Ca for manslaughter is 15 so she would be out in 7 depending if she has any priors and if she is given the max. Not sure about 2nd degree but she could be out on parole after serving her sentence. There would be a penalty phase after convicted.

 

[newone]

I was spending a few minutes trying to "walk in her shoes". To see things from her perspective... and it's horrifying.

Picture this if you can...
You have suffered for years and years, tried all kinds of experimental treatments, making things worse instead of better.. You have become marginalized, ridiculed and shunned. You have reached wits end and have decided to end it all. You leave notes, kill your kids, and overdose....
Only to wake up the next morning and find you failed to die from the pills and are now forced to face the murder of your kids for the rest of your life. Sounds like something out of a Steven King Movie.

ota

Totally agree she's been through hell and the future isn't looking any cheerier....and I especially feel for her 'feeling shunned and ridiculed' that's the worst part of it....I do not doubt for a minute that woman experienced a lot of emotional pain for decades. There were environmental factors that did not help her situation and may have contributed to her illness as well. The last expert witness testified that JS did not want to leave Hawaii (as an example)-- it was clear there were problems - unclear which is cause and which is effect in such situations. The whole situation is beyond sad. I do feel for JS as well as her ex and of course the children.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I would only accept guilty first degree with no eligibility for parole otherwise I think here in CA they are eligible in 25 years. I think not guilty by reason of insanity might be the best IMO because I know she would most likely never walk outside those hospital walls.

 

[Chelly]

Got a question as I am unsure of FL law for institutionalizing those found NG-Insanity:

If she is institutionalized (hospital), can't she at some point recover from her insanity and be discharged?

 

[shiloh42]

I think of Beau sitting next to his mom and his horror and terror as she pulls and shoots him in the face; I think of Calyx sitting at the computer, and her Mom comes up, shoots her in the head, twice. Was she alive for the second shot? Could have been. I feel for those children.

 

[HauntsForHope]

This verdict watch will be a nail biter for sure....

Gnite all! Seeya tomorrow

fftobed:

 

[Whiteorchids]

Got a question as I am unsure of FL law for institutionalizing those found NG-Insanity:

If she is institutionalized (hospital), can't she at some point recover from her insanity and be discharged?

Highly unlikely.

 

[shiloh42]

Got a question as I am unsure of FL law for institutionalizing those found NG-Insanity:

If she is institutionalized (hospital), can't she at some point recover from her insanity and be discharged?

Yes, at any point she was deemed no longer a threat to herself or society. It would likely be years. In a study I just read of in Illinois, of the 173 murderers who got NGBRI, 60 were released after an average of 9 years.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/..._insanity-verdict-marci-webber-jared-loughner

Recidividism seems rare. .. edit: for murderers, but not unheard of. One guy in Florida killed his wife and 3 children in 1985. Got out after 12 years. Got re-arrested in 2005 threatening to kill a clerk in a robbery. At least two men in Dade County committed murders after being released after killing someone and getting off NGBRI.

This is per: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/not-guilty-and-insane-local-defendants-are-getting/nLtxr/

 

[LambChop]

Got a question as I am unsure of FL law for institutionalizing those found NG-Insanity:

If she is institutionalized (hospital), can't she at some point recover from her insanity and be discharged?

She is not considered insane now. They are going for insanity at the time of the crime so if she is acquitted, I believe she will walk out of the court room a free woman. It would be considered "temporary insanity". She appears fine now, able to answer the judge, talks to her attorneys, etc. jmo

 

[Whiteorchids]

Andrea Yates is stable for now. She's still in the hospital. MI is a progressive degenerative disease. You don't get healed and it doesn't go away. At her age it gets WORSE over time. She has severe MI. Stable one day psychotic the next. It's a very hard verdict to win. If she is insane she won't be getting out. Hospital would be liable if she killed again after they released her. She would be a danger to society. SHE SHOT HER OWN TWO KIDS POINT BLANK TWICE IN THE HEAD. She is a loony toon. Not going to happen. She will be there till she dies.

 

[Whiteorchids]

She is not considered insane now. They are going for insanity at the time of the crime so if she is acquitted, I believe she will walk out of the court room a free woman. It would be considered "temporary insanity". She appears fine now, able to answer the judge, talks to her attorneys, etc. jmo

Doesn't work that way.

 

[Whiteorchids]

She is not considered insane now. They are going for insanity at the time of the crime so if she is acquitted, I believe she will walk out of the court room a free woman. It would be considered "temporary insanity". She appears fine now, able to answer the judge, talks to her attorneys, etc. jmo

Maybe not as serious offense. Where's minor? He can answer I think he's an attorney.

 

[Whiteorchids]

She is not considered insane now. They are going for insanity at the time of the crime so if she is acquitted, I believe she will walk out of the court room a free woman. It would be considered "temporary insanity". She appears fine now, able to answer the judge, talks to her attorneys, etc. jmo

Don't worry LampChop if she get that verdict she will not be released. I have medical professionals in my extended family. She will be locked up in the hospital for the criminally insane.

I'm more worried and concerned of a guilty of manslaughter or 2nd degree.

 

[Bernina]

http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBResources.nsf/0/BDFE1551AD291A3F85256B29004BF892/$FILE/Criminal.pdf?OpenElement

Page 131+.

According to that, she could be committed, re-evaluated, and released if she meets the criteria.

RULE 3.218. JUDGMENT OF NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF
INSANITY: DISPOSITION OF DEFENDANT
(a) Verdict of Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity. When a person is
found by the jury or the court not guilty of the offense or is found not to be in
violation of probation or community control by reason of insanity, the jury or
judge, in giving the verdict or finding of not guilty judgment, shall state that it
was given for that reason.
(b) Treatment, Commitment, or Discharge after Acquittal. When a
person is found not guilty of the offense or is found not to be in violation of
probation or community control by reason of insanity, if the court then
determines that the defendant presently meets the criteria set forth by law, the
court shall commit the defendant to the Department of Children and Family
Services or shall order outpatient treatment at any other appropriate facility or
service, or shall discharge the defendant. Any order committing the defendant
or requiring outpatient treatment or other outpatient service shall contain:
(1) findings of fact relating to the issue of commitment or other
court-ordered treatment;
(2) copies of any reports of experts filed with the court; and
May 5, 2014 Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure 130
(3) any other psychiatric, psychological, or social work report
submitted to the court relative to the mental state of the defendant.

 

[shiloh42]

Well, given that all the doctors agree that she is at least currently profoundly mentally ill (whether or not she knew the difference between right and wrong), I am confident of her being 'locked away' for a number of years. She won't be immediately released. I am far less confident of that being all that many years.

 

[Bernina]

....more.....

http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBResources.nsf/0/BDFE1551AD291A3F85256B29004BF892/$FILE/Criminal.pdf?OpenElement
RULE 3.219. CONDITIONAL RELEASE
(a) Release Plan. The committing court may order a conditional
release of any defendant who has been committed according to a finding of
incompetency to proceed or an adjudication of not guilty by reason of insanity
based on an approved plan for providing appropriate outpatient care and
treatment. When the administrator shall determine outpatient treatment of the
defendant to be appropriate, the administrator may file with the court, and
provide copies to all parties, a written plan for outpatient treatment, including
May 5, 2014 Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure 132
recommendations from qualified professionals. The plan may be submitted by
the defendant. The plan shall include:
(1) special provisions for residential care, adequate supervision
of the defendant, or both;
(2) provisions for outpatient mental health services; and
(3) if appropriate, recommendations for auxiliary services such
as vocational training, educational services, or special medical care.
In its order of conditional release, the court shall specify the conditions of
release based on the release plan and shall direct the appropriate agencies or
persons to submit periodic reports to the court regarding the defendant‘s
compliance with the conditions of the release, and progress in treatment, and
provide copies to all parties. The procedure for determinations of the
confidential status of reports is governed by Rule of Judicial Administration
2.420.
(b) Defendant’s Failure to Comply. If it appears at any time that the
defendant has failed to comply with the conditions of release, or that the
defendant‘s condition has deteriorated to the point that inpatient care is
required, or that the release conditions should be modified, the court, after
hearing, may modify the release conditions or, if the court finds the defendant
meets the statutory criteria for commitment, may order that the defendant be
recommitted to the Department of Children and Family Services for further
treatment.
(c) Discharge. If at any time it is determined after hearing that the
defendant no longer requires court-supervised follow-up care, the court shall
terminate its jurisdiction in the cause and discharge the defendant.