GUILTY FL - Charles Kinsey, autistic caregiver, North Miami, July 2016 -guilty of misdemeanor

[i.b.nora]

snipped

location 14th street in front of power station.

https://www.google.com/maps/@25.892...4!1suPxw-XFdYayoJ9k839O2iw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Elley, Mr Soto lived in a private residential group home very very close to the location of the shooting. Maybe we should just leave it at that and not wilfully broadcast the actual location of his residence.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Looking back in this thread to find some information I had previously posted:

“The owner of the group home, Clinton Bower, told Local 10 News that the autistic man, who is nonverbal, was handcuffed and detained by police for hours.

He said his client had to be hospitalized after returning from police custody and said officers confiscated his toy truck as evidence.

Bower called Kinsey a hero and said he did everything right in following police's orders and making sure his client was OK.

Bower said he offered North Miami police training on how to deal with people with disabilities two years ago after police stunned another client with a Taser. He said the department never took him up on his offer.

Days after the shooting, Kinsey has yet to hear why officers felt the need to shoot.”​

And, either I overlooked this before or it was added since:

“Another cellphone video, which surfaced Thursday, shows two officers behind a vehicle with guns drawn.

"The police are here with big guns, on top of my car. A crazy guy ran by with a revolver in his hand and they have him on the ground," a woman is heard saying in Spanish.

The man she is referring to is the autistic man with the toy truck which may have been mistaken for a handgun.

"I'm having to go through this, my God," she said. "And a black man lying in the street, poor black man."”​

All of the above from this article that I previously posted a link to:

http://www.local10.com/news/exculsi...uns-drawn-moments-before-north-miami-shooting

The new witness cellphone video mentioned above is included in the first 10News video news report on the page. It shows the guy who I believe is Johnathan Alleda with his rifle. The video shows up about halfway through the report.

It would appear as though police training is in order. However, building awareness on the part of the community would certainly also help.

I have seen neighborhoods go into freak-out mode any time there is a move to create community-based living situations for people with disabilities. It is astonishing the attitudes and beliefs held by many people, along the lines of assuming that persons who might live in such homes--which typically attempt to create group situations in order to facilitate care/supervision of adults who deserve to live in a community like anyone else (as opposed to an institution)--are violent, prone to sexual assaults, weird or otherwise highly undesireable as neighbors.

The autism spectrum includes a very wide range of abilities. Hard to determine what an uneducated neighbor might have seen.

 

[Dionysia]

How could the autistic man be the one threatening to commit suicide if he is non-verbal?

Either the 911 caller was lying or calling about someone else or the cops focused in on the wrong situation.

MOO...

 

[Elley Mae]

bbm, Not sure about the non verbal.


Witness Thomas Matthews lives nearby and said he saw the shooting unfold. “The guy was yelling, ‘Help me. Help me.’ And all of a sudden, three shots were fired. Boom, boom, boom,” he said.

http://wsvn.com/news/local/police-investigate-shooting-in-north-miami-1-injured/

It shows Kinsey lying in the middle of the street with his hands up, asking the officers not to shoot him, while the autistic man sits next to him, yelling at him to "shut up."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-shoot-autistic-mans-caretaker-lies-street-40753638

 

[Dionysia]

I think the guy yelling 'help me' was Kinsey. Not sure about the 'shut up' bit.

Hm.

Now I'm even more curious about the story behind the 911 call.

 

[ohreally]

I don't know what is considered an autistic person being verbal or non verbal. According to his mother he has made several statements to his mom. From talking about the shooting to wanting to know where his caregiver is. So he can talk to a certain degree.
I do wonder what the group homes responsibility is to his safety. Is it true that they cannot keep him from leaving the facility? His mother does seem to have good things to say about Kinsey, but not so much with the facility itself.

 

[Elley Mae]

Watch this, he is saying lots.

[video=youtube;Wgk4RflAI4E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgk4RflAI4E[/video]

 

[ohreally]

IMO it is clearlyy Arnaldo saying the shut up in the video. There is no video showing which man was saying Help me, help me just Mr. Williams saying 'the man'. It's hard to say which man he meant. If it was Kinsey then I do think it is possible that Arnaldo did start to physically attack Kinsey. After negotiating for fifteen minutes right or wrong there is something that triggered the shooting that we don't know about because there is no video showing the exact moment.

 

[Dockins]

It's still a shame that in 2016 a Black American feels like he has to do this as to not be shot by LE. Sadder even, it didn't prevent it.

 

[Margo/Mom]

He wasn't doing all that well before this incident either. He tried to escape the home on July 5 (per Miami herald article). That time home tried to restrain him and he got injured in the process.

"On July 5, a behavior analyst from the group home called to tell her she needed to go to an urgent care center immediately. Rios had been injured while he was being restrained the day before, she said, and doctors could not treat the young man without her medical consent, as she was his legal guardian. “He was trying to get out of the house and he became aggressive and he was not allowed to get out of the house,” Soto said. Rios had broken his nose while being restrained. He also had broken his finger, an injury the group home says probably occurred earlier."

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...orth-miami/article91472342.html#storylink=cpy

I think we need to consider making a distinction between "escaping," and "wandering." Escaping implies being held somewhere against one's will--which is something that we try to avoid, even or especially, for people having a range of disabilities. Not a good practice.

Wandering, on the other hand, may be a practice engaged in by people having various mental/emotional states/disabilities. It can be alarming to caregivers because it involves moving out of supervision and into a world of vulnerabilities. The dangers to the wandering person may be considerable, however they do not necessarily imply a danger to anyone with whom they might interact. As an example, such a wandering person, in addition to getting lost or becoming a crime victim, may be mistaken for a dangerous person and lack either the communication skills or relational abilities to make a coherent explanation before being shot at by police.

In an ideal world, such persons are watched carefully by persons with the ability to redirect wandering, or possibly even go with them into the world. As resources shrink away from the ideal, there is some ability to fill in with various structures (locks, alarms, CCTV, etc). But we really do need to be careful about going the route of physical or chemical restraints--which really take us into a realm of civil rights violations and quasi-imprisonment.

 

[ZooSleuth]

IMO it is clearlyy Arnaldo saying the shut up in the video. There is no video showing which man was saying Help me, help me just Mr. Williams saying 'the man'. It's hard to say which man he meant. If it was Kinsey then I do think it is possible that Arnaldo did start to physically attack Kinsey. After negotiating for fifteen minutes right or wrong there is something that triggered the shooting that we don't know about because there is no video showing the exact moment.

Since LE have made no mention of Arnaldo attacking Kinsey, IMO it's more likely Kinsey yelled "help me" because he was scared the police were going to shoot them. That could also confuse the police into thinking Kinsey was asking them for help. Even without knowing all the facts, it's clear that this situation was handled terribly by the officers on the scene. The fact that Kinsey was handcuffed after being shot makes my blood boil.

 

[Elley Mae]

Shut up shut up shut up you idiot Tell them to stop help please. That is what I hear coming from the autistic man, he puts the truck to his mouth and says, tell them to stop, help please.

 

[rob]

He wasn't doing all that well before this incident either. He tried to escape the home on July 5 (per Miami herald article). That time home tried to restrain him and he got injured in the process.

"On July 5, a behavior analyst from the group home called to tell her she needed to go to an urgent care center immediately. Rios had been injured while he was being restrained the day before, she said, and doctors could not treat the young man without her medical consent, as she was his legal guardian. “He was trying to get out of the house and he became aggressive and he was not allowed to get out of the house,” Soto said. Rios had broken his nose while being restrained. He also had broken his finger, an injury the group home says probably occurred earlier."

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...orth-miami/article91472342.html#storylink=cpy

I hate to say it, but based on some severely austistic guys that I know, he may not even remember what happened or didn't really understand that someone was injured. Sometimes it is like trying to explain to a toddler.
When they grow up and have a man's body and a child's mind, its very hard to reason with them. My friends were installing a new inground pool at their new home, and their son was excited because he missed the small pool they had at their former home, during installation (no water yet) he ran and jumped in all of the sudden and broke his arm. I'm still terrified that they have the pool.
JMO

 

[rob]

I want to hear the 911 call that started the whole police response.

Me too. Were they responding to two men having a problem in the middle of the street or did the facility call to have the patient returned. IMO, that should not be LE's duty.
If the facility did call, surely they would have stated the condition of the resident. ???

 

[rob]

Quote: Cuevas said officers received a 911 call indicating a man was in the street with a gun threatening to kill himself.

That couldn't be the same man, if the resident was non-verbal.

 

[KaaBoom]

I hate to say it, but based on some severely austistic guys that I know, he may not even remember what happened or didn't really understand that someone was injured. Sometimes it is like trying to explain to a toddler.
When they grow up and have a man's body and a child's mind, its very hard to reason with them. My friends were installing a new inground pool at their new home, and their son was excited because he missed the small pool they had at their former home, during installation (no water yet) he ran and jumped in all of the sudden and broke his arm. I'm still terrified that they have the pool.
JMO

The reports are that he does remember what happened, and he is traumatized by it.

 

[Eloise]

Quote: Cuevas said officers received a 911 call indicating a man was in the street with a gun threatening to kill himself.

That couldn't be the same man, if the resident was non-verbal.

I agree. Either this was a case of mistaken identity and the actual suicidal guy is ???? somewhere else ... or someone called this in hoping for an outcome like this? Nothing would surprise me anymore.

 

[GeeEm]

Since LE have made no mention of Arnaldo attacking Kinsey, IMO it's more likely Kinsey yelled "help me" because he was scared the police were going to shoot them. That could also confuse the police into thinking Kinsey was asking them for help. Even without knowing all the facts, it's clear that this situation was handled terribly by the officers on the scene. The fact that Kinsey was handcuffed after being shot makes my blood boil.

Hi ZooSleuth

I agree! I think one possibility that Mr Kinsey yelling "help me" may have frightened Armaldo. His mentality state is that of a 3-4 year old child. When people argue, a normal child gets upset in that age range. I'm appalled Mr Kinsey was shot and handcuffed. Can't wait for the 911 call to be heard.

 

[al66pine]

Hard to know how much of the confusion or contradiction in MSM stems from reporter, editor, or sources: mother, lawyer, group home employees, et al. Lots of room for communication gaps or misunderstandings.

Not clear whether reporter actually witnessed this or whether son's quote came from mother.
Per miamiherald link of July 23, http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/north-miami/article91472342.html
"On Tuesday, Rios wandered yet again. He returned to the blood-stained sidewalk where his caregiver had been shot the day before and threw himself to the ground, his mother said. Rocking rhythmically, he shouted: “I hate the police. I hate the police.” bbm

Further into article:
" He is largely non-verbal, though he can use a handful of words — “police” and “blood” and “hate” are among them." bbm

And
"When Soto was able to speak to her son by phone the next day, the 26-year-old could muster only “baby talk,” Soto said. “He was crying. He kept saying, ‘Mom! Mom!,’ trying to tell me what happened. ‘Shoot, shoot. Police, police. Blood.’ ”bbm

And that's just one article. Other articles describe a bit differently. IDK.
​

​

 

[jjenny]

Quote: Cuevas said officers received a 911 call indicating a man was in the street with a gun threatening to kill himself.

That couldn't be the same man, if the resident was non-verbal.

He isn't completely non-verbal. He clearly can talk, you can hear him screaming "shut up" on the tape.