FL - Coralrose Fullwood, 6, found murdered, North Port, 17 Sept 2006

[mssheila]

I just wanted to post a link to the message board where Ellen is posting. I had to go back several pages to find it. In case anyone wants to read what she's saying, and they're just coming into the discussion now (like me) here is the link:

http://forums.heraldtribune.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3941081465/m/9691040175/p/1

The thread is almost 300 pages long... but that's page 1.

 

[mooselover]

I have been a viewer for a couple of years and this is my first post to a thread so bare with me. This story caught my eye because 1) it is horrible what happens to children and 2) I am a social worker for many years. I was captivatred by the first pages when everyone was upset with children services. Being in this postion many times before ( not a murdered child, but a murdered spouse and shaken baby cases, but people angry at us)I knew there was much more to the story than what was being said. And that Law enforcement was guiding the actions of children services in many ways. Not allowing your children to be interviewed after such a horrendous murder is the first red flag. And due to the family having contacts over the years with children services, of course made them not want to cooperate. A few thoughts I have.
First is that there is something very " fishy with the father" and I agree with posters who say not only is not normal to have child because the kids are victims in those videoes, but to have children and viewing them is beyond me.
2) the mother probably has a type of personality disorder which can not be treated with medicine or is has another diagnosis treatable by medication. If she is not getting the kids back it could be due to her not following the case plan. They are probably asking for some type of psych eval on her. I have had this experience many times. The parents can say what they want to the media or in this case through chat forums, but children services can not. The most important is the "issues" all these children had/have. If a six year old was truly diagnosed with bi-polar there are big problems in the home. Two children is really bad. Whether the mom is putting these diagnosis on the chidlren (not uncommon) or really do have them. Also The most disturbed children are those who come from homes of long term neglect. No food, dirty homes, sporadic schooling, moving, etc. They are also the hardest to prove and to make a difference in. You go in, they clean up , start making progress to get children services off your back and go back to how they were licing before, but the cycle continues.
My other problem is the grandparents. I have also seen this many times. Why was there no involvment before CoralRose was murdered. I have grandparents, aunts, uncles who all come in after the fact and then get mad at us. All the while knowing what the living conditions were. As a former police officer the grandfather should have taken action sooner, unless they were not allowed contact which could have been possible, but it seems from his statements that he did. But I do applaud them for now getting involved as it can not be easy. I have several grandparents raising the kids on my case load. I know how hard it is on them. Anyhow just my thoughts. Can't believe I finally posted and sorry for the long comment. RR thanks for all your hard work. This case has really touched my heart as all of mine do everyday. Have to take my son to the dentist. Is there a way to spell check????????

 

[concernedperson]

mooselover, you did great. Thanks for a real perspective. The issues and case handling and what can be exposed legally. Your opinions are based in reality and we welcome your input. You can prove to be invaluable in this case and many others.

Never worry about spellcheck when you have so much to offer WS. Please stay and post frequently...enlighten...help...educate! It makes all of us better in what we try to do.

Bless you!

 

[RiverRat]

Thanks for the refresher link, MsShelia!

What a wonderful first post, MooseLover! Welcome aboard the WBS where unfortunately - your background will come in handy from time to time.

The question foremost in my mind now is when did the sexual abuse occur? Were there prior injuries or scarring or was this just from the night of her death?

 

[Garnan]

Thank you Mooselover, I appreciated your insight. Please continue to post when you can. Welcome.

 

[mooselover]

Thank you Mooselover, I appreciated your insight. Please continue to post when you can. Welcome.

No, thanks to all of you that have been very welcoming and kind. I am trying to figure out now how to post without having to hit a quote. As I tell everyone that is why I got the talking degree.....Computers aren't my thing. LOL
More thoughts. RR you asked about the sexual abuse and it has been stated in posts about sexual abuse or "trauma" not necessarily being rape. So true. Again if she had bi-polar and the family was as disorganized and dysfuntional as we are reading then I would not be surprised at any of the suggestions by some posters. She was groomed, touched, video taped or all of the above. To supposedly have two autistic children and two bi-polar children is just very unusual. I have seen some families with many problems and kids with horrible behaviors and scars from living this way. One of kids from years ago just committed suicide two months ago after being released from custody after four years in a tx facility. She went to her father's in another state, but just couldn't make it. The years of negelct and yes, sexual abuse, was involved because the parents were unable to see the signs and protect. Also when the family was involved prior to Coralrose's murder with Children services, I would bet that they were referred to services for help with the children. Every state has numerous help through non-profit agencies. And help financially. My experience has been that the families rarely follow through or start the process of getting help and then stop. This type and I mean no dis-respect do not follow through. Not only that the mother, with her education, and job would know the system and be able to access it. For whatever reason she was not willing or able to. Anytime an investigation is done you take in the full scope of the family and their needs. Referrals would have been done for them or at the very least the angencies names would be given to the family that could help with the high maintenence of these children.
And it is more the norm that persons that view child eventually will act it out. It is a compulsion and addication with each viewing upping the need for more and more explicit " highs" so to speak. Geez, I think I am liking posting too much now....

 

[j2mirish]

No, thanks to all of you that have been very welcoming and kind. I am trying to figure out now how to post without having to hit a quote. As I tell everyone that is why I got the talking degree.....Computers aren't my thing. LOL
More thoughts. RR you asked about the sexual abuse and it has been stated in posts about sexual abuse or "trauma" not necessarily being rape. So true. Again if she had bi-polar and the family was as disorganized and dysfuntional as we are reading then I would not be surprised at any of the suggestions by some posters. She was groomed, touched, video taped or all of the above. To supposedly have two autistic children and two bi-polar children is just very unusual. I have seen some families with many problems and kids with horrible behaviors and scars from living this way. One of kids from years ago just committed suicide two months ago after being released from custody after four years in a tx facility. She went to her father's in another state, but just couldn't make it. The years of negelct and yes, sexual abuse, was involved because the parents were unable to see the signs and protect. Also when the family was involved prior to Coralrose's murder with Children services, I would bet that they were referred to services for help with the children. Every state has numerous help through non-profit agencies. And help financially. My experience has been that the families rarely follow through or start the process of getting help and then stop. This type and I mean no dis-respect do not follow through. Not only that the mother, with her education, and job would know the system and be able to access it. For whatever reason she was not willing or able to. Anytime an investigation is done you take in the full scope of the family and their needs. Referrals would have been done for them or at the very least the angencies names would be given to the family that could help with the high maintenence of these children.
And it is more the norm that persons that view child eventually will act it out. It is a compulsion and addication with each viewing upping the need for more and more explicit " highs" so to speak. Geez, I think I am liking posting too much now....

great info--- just hit post reply down on the bottom left, if you dont want to "quote" to someones quote, and just have a comment or info-- and trust me--- once ya start posting--- its over !!!! this forum is fantastic, and so are the folks here on w/s--- welcome-

 

[mssheila]

It's so odd to see the mother discussing her child's unsolved rape and murder on a newspaper's online forum for all to see. I feel terribly for her, but I can't imagine speaking publicly, to total strangers about the notorious, unsolved death of my baby. It's an insight into the family, for sure, and it's very rare to get that kind of information- I just think it's so strange that Ellen is posting her thoughts there.

 

[WFT]

I post at the HT forums on a semi regular basis. It does seem strange that Mrs. Fullwood will post there, but in her defense, I understand. Can you imagine your daughter being murdered, then imagine the whole world thinks you did it because you are a terrible house keeper? I think she started out posting in her frustration that people thought that. I think what has evolved is a roomful of perfect strangers who are, in a round-about way, giving her a shoulder to cry on. I am glad that so many family members are joining us in our outcry for this case to be solved.


What I do find strange, is that so many of the posts are clipped and pasted into this blog by this riverrat person. Is riverrat a poster at the HT? I just find it bizzarre that this blog is based on another blog and not on it's own merits.

I came here as one of the posters over there said there was a poster here that had a picture of Patsey Ramsey grieving over Jonbonets gravestone in every one of her posts. It sounded too goulish to be true and I had to see for myself. Now that I have seen it with my own eyes, I will have to agree that it in itself freaks me out.

 

[Garnan]

Kinda critical of you WFT. We have appreciated River Rat keeping us updated on the developments of this case. There hasn't been much to discuss, but some of us are following it closely. IMO if RR wants to post a picture of Patsy, that's fine with me. I doubt you would appreciate any of us going to your HT forum and criticizing you, please afford us the same courtesy.

 

[WFT]

I didn't mean to be critical. I was just stating an opinion.


RR is free to post that picture, I am sure you are used to it. Imagine a first time person coming on and seeing it over and over again. It gave me chills. I apologize, I should have kept my mouth shut.

As to the pasting of forum posts, I guess I shouldn't be bothered by that. Every News station and News paper brings it up. It is just surreal to see our thread being mentioned in so many conduits.

 

[mssheila]

Imagine a first time person coming on and seeing it over and over again. It gave me chills. I apologize, I should have kept my mouth shut.

Hello WFT- Thanks for your response about Ellen. I was trying to say the same thing that you did. I wasn't trying to be critical of her for defending herself in her initial posts.. I was merely trying to say that it's so odd to have the mother posting about it publicly.. And by Odd, I mean that it almost never happens for us, here at websleuths, even though we wish we had that kind of insight from the people involved in a case we're following. So it makes this case all the more "real" and tragic to me, hearing her mother speak about it.

Regarding the picture of Patsy Ramsey.. I can't speak for RR, but I know that the photo did shock me at first. If you look closely at the photo, and what Patsy is doing with her hands, it's a telling photo- IMO. I have some strong opinions on what I think happened to JBR, and that photo tells me a lot. But again, it's all just my opinion....

 

[jubie]

RiverRat,


What picture? The one in your siggy? If there is another one you want people to see I would like to see it!

Thanks again for keeping us updated with the Coralrose investigation.



Jubie

 

[packerdog]

I didn't mean to be critical. I was just stating an opinion.


RR is free to post that picture, I am sure you are used to it. Imagine a first time person coming on and seeing it over and over again. It gave me chills. I apologize, I should have kept my mouth shut.

As to the pasting of forum posts, I guess I shouldn't be bothered by that. Every News station and News paper brings it up. It is just surreal to see our thread being mentioned in so many conduits.

RR has been a poster here at WS for many years. If you will notice we have A JB Ramsey forum here as well. RR has kept us informed on this case with the media reports and other topics on this case. Welcome to Websleuths WFT.

I feel sorry for the mother for the loss of her daughter, if she had nothing to do with it. I still think that anyone with a filthy house such as hers, has a skrew loose. If you put your childrens heath at risk with poop on the walls, toilets not flushed, and all the other filth described, how can you be a good parent? This isn't the first time they were told to clean up their home and I am affraid it won't be the last. Normal people just don't live like this, it's not like her home needed to be dusted or laundry done, there is no excuse for this kind of filth. You hear about people who keep 50 cats in their house or keep garbage piled up and they have some kind of mental disorder.

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<I feel sorry for the mother for the loss of her daughter, if she had nothing to do with it. I still think that anyone with a filthy house such as hers, has a skrew loose. >>

I think the part-time bartender in the family should have kept the house clean instead of surfing for child .

...the mom was working up to 70 hours a week outside the home!

 

[concernedperson]

<<I feel sorry for the mother for the loss of her daughter, if she had nothing to do with it. I still think that anyone with a filthy house such as hers, has a skrew loose. >>

I think the part-time bartender in the family should have kept the house clean instead of surfing for child .

...the mom was working up to 70 hours a week outside the home!

All of this bothers me. Everyday I think I will come here and hear news that Coralrose was abused and murdered by her father. This little child deserved so much more than she was dealt. I am not about forgiving a parent right now.

Irresponsibility, denial, abuse, murder and a mom who possibly was clueless. Or, she was too tired to notice. God, I hope this is it. 70 hours a week while some bum searched child ...well I just can't say enough.

Nothing will bring Coralrose back. But everythng will aid to stop another situation.

 

[mooselover]

I also find it interesting that the mother is posting on a chat forum. I went back and re- read some posts and saw where neither parent has been cleared at this time, guess I missed it. In our state and most, a good attorney for the parents will tell them NOT to work their case plan or talk to the media since anything they share in psych eval, family therapy, etc can be shared with the court and be used against them in a criminal trial. I had a case tied up for four years for this. The dad murdered the mother. The kids could not be adopted until we terminated, but he had a fifth ammendment right to not self incriminate himself which could have happened if he had shared with other professionals and agencies. Finally the family of the murdered mother started pushing for a trial, it happened, and we were able to terminate his rights after he was found guilty of first degree murder and freed the children for adoption. My point being, is other than family this may be her only avenue, but I am sure her attorney is having a cow. Or she may just not want to work the case plan or can't due to other reasons. I have also had other parents say they didn't care, they did nothing wrong and would do whatever it took.... So who knows.

RR thanks for all the info on the case. Gives great insight to this mother and the pic of Patsy did not bother me. Thanks.

 

[txsvicki]

I agree with Mooselovers posts about personality disorder and that can explain all the dramatic posting. It looks to me like LE are admitting that Coral Rose did have sexual assault that might not have been visible on preliminary autopsy but dna was found in some tissues or on the body. I find it very odd that Dale was into child, young girl, and his little girl comes up dead and sexually abused. It could be that he was trying to share video, allow a member of the pedophile community to film in exchange for payment, or he gave his real name and address to some freak on the internet. I believe that Coral Rose was killed because she was feisty and going to tell. I also believe that the other kids may also know more than they are telling us and some of their mental and emotional problems could have been due to abuse.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I disagree completely about the personality disorder. The disordered home is clearly associated with depression. She was overworked and overwhelmed, and her spouse was not keeping up his end.

Her comments on the message board have been minimal comparing the intrusion into her life and the assumptions made by others about her.

 

[RiverRat]

WFT - welcome to Websleuths....I knew one of you HTers would find your way over here eventually. I am not a poster there as I am a long time local and I know myself..I would be bugging any buddies I have in LE for info that is not my business.....yet.

BTW - This thread was initiated way before I found the local message board that Ellen is posting on. As she is a suspect, of course I copied her words here as this is far from my first rodeo. And yes - we agree that this case needs national publicity so this is where our forum helps yours.

And regarding my dear sweet Patsy posing over her daughters grave.....it got your attention, didn't it? And it wasn't a good reaction, was it? This one little picture below has opened more eyes than any of the other photos of JonBenet, and so it will go to my grave with me.

Thank you to my cohorts here for filling in the pieces until I returned!