GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU law professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #3 *Arrests*

[86Violet]

I'm in the camp of people that believe WA knew the plan. In order to charge her, though, I think they will need evidence that she took action to further the plan in some way. Right? It's been a while since Professor Markel taught me crim law. I'm not sure if she will ever be charged. If they do come up with evidence though, I bet it will be from Charlie. After all, she was pretty quick to throw him under the bus in her police interview...

Perhaps the morning of the murder, when she spoke with Markel in between her calls with Charlie, she solidified that he dropped off the kids and the plan could go forward. If she called Charlie and gave him that piece of information, I think that would be enough...

 

[DexterMorgan]

Well, they did have important television repair business to discuss.....

What time did WA drive by the scene?

Lol. I think KM should be happy that the cops was monitoring everyone before CA had the chance to hire another tv repair man for her.

Jmo.

 

[Marvin Berry]

I'm in the camp of people that believe WA knew the plan. In order to charge her, though, I think they will need evidence that she took action to further the plan in some way. Right? It's been a while since Professor Markel taught me crim law. I'm not sure if she will ever be charged. If they do come up with evidence though, I bet it will be from Charlie. After all, she was pretty quick to throw him under the bus in her police interview...

Perhaps the morning of the murder, when she spoke with Markel in between her calls with Charlie, she solidified that he dropped off the kids and the plan could go forward. If she called Charlie and gave him that piece of information, I think that would be enough...

I believe in common law there needs to be an overt act to be guilty of a conspiracy to commit a crime. But, if I remember correctly, Florida law only requires an agreement. The problem is unless KM has evidence that Wendi was in on the agreement, it is unlikely they'll have sufficient evidence to prove her involvement (I can't see any of the other As rolling on her).

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Lol. I think KM should be happy that the cops was monitoring everyone before CA had the chance to hire another tv repair man for her.

Jmo.

Good point.

 

[whonos]

I remember when this case heated up again I objected to another WS member for referring to WA as a psychopath or sociopath. I also said I admired WA’s accomplishments and that it was unlikely that a person involved in human rights would have anything to do with murder.

Now I am googling things like “psychopathic family” and wondering how many strings her parents pulled for WA’s awards and who wrote her book. Maybe that is why DM did not bother to read it and said she had everyone fooled?

I would be embarrassed about my lack of insight except that there are still people posting that they do not think WA was involved. The truth can be hard to swallow according to our experiences. My former husband, now deceased, was a professor so I thought I had a handle on the “type”. Ha

Thanks to everyone for the intelligent and balanced comments and especially for retrieving documents and news, hot off the press.

 

[Russian Blue]

Lol. I think KM should be happy that the cops was monitoring everyone before CA had the chance to hire another tv repair man for her.

Jmo.

Yeah on one hand I agree, but CA would of had to go too far down the line and it would of been a domino effect of hits. Mister smarty pants set himself up in the classic hit man blackmail scenario. If she had not been arrested the payoff was never going to end.

 

[86Violet]

I believe in common law there needs to be an overt act to be guilty of a conspiracy to commit a crime. But, if I remember correctly, Florida law only requires an agreement. The problem is unless KM has evidence that Wendi was in on the agreement, it is unlikely they'll have sufficient evidence to prove her involvement (I can't see any of the other As rolling on her).

Thank you! I'm glad to hear that, actually. I doubt KM has evidence on her, and I'm inclined to agree that the As will likely not flip on her. The only one who might is Charlie, and I admit it's a small chance.

Question though - what does she need to agree to? Does she need only agree to the crime being carried out, or does she need to agree to commit an act in furtherance of the conspiracy? What if they have evidence that she agreed they should carry out the crime but have no evidence of her intention to participate?

 

[Marvin Berry]

Yeah on one hand I agree, but CA would of had to go too far down the line and it would of been a domino effect of hits. Mister smarty pants set himself up in the classic hit man blackmail scenario. If she had not been arrested the payoff was never going to end.

According to the probable cause affidavit, the As were willing to pay DM $1,000,000 to let WA move to South Florida. I don't think they were sweating $50k, half a boob job, and a 15-year-old Lexus. I'm sure in CA's mind he was well ahead of the game. The status quo of relatively minimum payments to KM had to be preferable to her arrest and LR rolling. CA has to know that the next picture of him in the press will be his mugshot.

 

[loco]

That is not so far fetched ! LE has a tape of CA telling KM that she might have to have the undercover agent killed or he would find someone to kill him. If CA could say that, he could also be capable of having KM killed to silence her!

 

[Jerri_Blank]

Can they get WA on accessory before the fact if she confirmed Dan's whereabouts when she spoke to CA?

 

[cvaldez1975]

he will probably be segregated for assisting in prosecution.

idk if they care about non gang/criminal enterprise snitching but I would guess it could go either way.

What do people think about the Latin Kings connection? Is it possible Rivera will be made a target in jail for "snitching". Was Garcia a member also? I don't really know how the gang thing works.

~ E

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

So, if the rest of the family ends up in the slammer and WA is not charged, she could find herself and the two boys in south Florida with no family support. I guess she can keep busy visiting them in prison but I don't quite see this ending the way she expected it to.

 

[Marvin Berry]

Thank you! I'm glad to hear that, actually. I doubt KM has evidence on her, and I'm inclined to agree that the As will likely not flip on her. The only one who might is Charlie, and I admit it's a small chance.

Question though - what does she need to agree to? Does she need only agree to the crime being carried out, or does she need to agree to commit an act in furtherance of the conspiracy? What if they have evidence that she agreed they should carry out the crime but have no evidence of her intention to participate?

I wasn't sure, so I looked at the Florida model jury instructions for conspiracy: http://federalevidence.com/pdf/JuryInst/FLA.CrimJI.pdf (at page 105).
It looks like the state would have to prove that WA intended that DM be murdered, and agreed with CA/DA that he be murdered. "It is not necessary that the defendant do any act in furtherance of the offense conspired."

I don't see them getting there without the As flipping on her.

 

[cvaldez1975]

maybe we can hope that sibling rivalry comes into play.... he WAS SECOND FIDDLE TO THE PRINCESS!! "wendi wendi wendi!!!" (like marsha marsha marsha!)

I'm in the camp of people that believe WA knew the plan. In order to charge her, though, I think they will need evidence that she took action to further the plan in some way. Right? It's been a while since Professor Markel taught me crim law. I'm not sure if she will ever be charged. If they do come up with evidence though, I bet it will be from Charlie. After all, she was pretty quick to throw him under the bus in her police interview...

Perhaps the morning of the murder, when she spoke with Markel in between her calls with Charlie, she solidified that he dropped off the kids and the plan could go forward. If she called Charlie and gave him that piece of information, I think that would be enough...

 

[cvaldez1975]

im betting KM doesn't do too much time if she sings and if wendi isn't implicated, her blackmail just might continue.

Yeah on one hand I agree, but CA would of had to go too far down the line and it would of been a domino effect of hits. Mister smarty pants set himself up in the classic hit man blackmail scenario. If she had not been arrested the payoff was never going to end.

 

[cvaldez1975]

very true.... but they went with the budget hit man and got what they paid for!!!

According to the probable cause affidavit, the As were willing to pay DM $1,000,000 to let WA move to South Florida. I don't think they were sweating $50k, half a boob job, and a 15-year-old Lexus. I'm sure in CA's mind he was well ahead of the game. The status quo of relatively minimum payments to KM had to be preferable to her arrest and LR rolling. CA has to know that the next picture of him in the press will be his mugshot.

 

[Russian Blue]

Its looking to me like WA is not going to be implicated in this. I'm thinking if she did know ahead of time, CA and DA were careful to keep her at a remove from KM. If WA was part of the conspiracy I don't see her brother or mother ever revealing it and it doesn't seem like LE has any independent evidence implicating her...

A trapped snake will eventually turn on another.

 

[GordonX]

can you imagine the never ending stress and sleepless nights that the alleged well-to-do high society conspirators with cushy lifestyles must be feeling as the noose tightens? every day, every moment must be a living nightmare. not that they deserve any sympathy if guilty but i imagine they're thinking -

"OMG, what have I done?! How could I have been so stupid as to put myself in this situation? How could I ruin my life? How could someone like ME be facing prison or execution? I can't go to prison! I won't! Can I run? Should I run? Where can I go? Are they watching me? Things like this don't happen to people like ME! I am not a criminal! I protect my family! How can I get myself out of this???"

The 5 stages of grief and loss are: 1. Denial and isolation; 2. Anger; 3. Bargaining; 4. Depression; 5. Acceptance.

the psychology is fascinating. what's even more fascinating is how these very educated people thought (if guilty) that they could pull this very dumb plot off and actually get away with it. especially with all of these very direct personal connections and blatant use of personal cell phones which are easily tracked. or maybe they didn't think? "Hubris is fatal."

 

[cvaldez1975]

im glad!!

can you imagine the never ending stress and sleepless nights that the alleged well-to-do high society conspirators with cushy lifestyles must be feeling as the noose tightens? every day, every moment must be a living nightmare. not that they deserve any sympathy if guilty but i imagine they're thinking -

"OMG, what have I done?! How could I have been so stupid as to put myself in this situation? How could I ruin my life? How could someone like ME be facing prison or execution? I can't go to prison! I won't! Can I run? Should I run? Where can I go? Are they watching me? Things like this don't happen to people like ME! I am not a criminal! I protect my family! How can I get myself out of this???"

The 5 stages of grief and loss are: 1. Denial and isolation; 2. Anger; 3. Bargaining; 4. Depression; 5. Acceptance.

the psychology fascinates me. what's even more fascinating is how these very educated people thought (if guilty) they could pull this dumb plot off and not get caught. or maybe they didn't think? "Hubris is fatal."

 

[amateur sleuth]

Those three women led those three incredibly "jello-for-brains"men straight to prison by the rings in their noses. JMO of course!